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Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 21:51:26 EST
Subject: Chaos4.InstinctRecords
Ever since the current wave of techno first hit America, Instinct Records has
been probably the most prolific supplier of the music in this country. While
they have put out many outstanding compilations, the label is best known for
launching the career of techno's first superstar, Moby. Released in 1991, the
"Instinct Dance" compilation was actually just Moby under four different
names. Shortly after its release, Moby hit the road with the Shamen on a tour
that introduced rave music many more fans and officially brought it up from
the underground.  Moby may have left the label for Elektra, but Instinct is
still putting out strong compilations and has an exciting new roster of
artists. Such acts as The Irresistible Force, Prototype 909, Omicron, Evolve
Now, and Human Mesh Dance are taking electronic dance music to the next
level. In addition, Instinct is now releasing material by Cabaret Voltaire.
The following interview with Instinct president Jared Hoffman was conducted
by Lila Lieberman and Bob Gourley in the label's New York office.

How did you come to start up Instinct?

Instinct started about 4 1/2 - 5 years ago out of the notion that as a DJ I
was hearing all kinds of cool records coming in from overseas that were never
being released here. I figured 'well, they should be released here why don't
I start a record company'. That's how it started. We've learned a lot since
then but we're still here.

Was it difficult starting out?

It wasn't easy at first because we had the idea to be a record company but we
did not have any artists or any music or a lot of experience. The first thing
we did was travel to Europe and basically went to every record label that I
ever had records from that I really liked and just tried to meet everyone and
said 'we'd really like to put your music out. We're new, but take a chance
with us.' Fortunately, a couple of people decided to take a chance with us.
That worked, we originally worked with Low Spirit records very, very early
on. That's Westbam's label in Germany. From there, we put out a few singles.
Because I was  DJ in New York, I had a lot of friends in the music community
and people knew I was looking for music and wanted to start a label. So a
mutual friend who knew Moby suggested to Moby that he should get a tape to
us. We worked with Moby and up until now he has been our most successful
artist.

It seems that the success of Moby and Instinct go hand and hand. Can you
describe the label's relationship with him?

It's kind of one of those wild stories, where for whatever reason everything
seems to be in the right place at the right time. It just took off. He's
certainly an incredibly talented, very uniquely talented producer. I don't
think he ever set out to be a techno artist per say as much as just someone
doing very much his own thing. It was always very cool and he seemed to have
become adopted by the techno movement because there were elements in the
sounds that meshed and it just seemed to be a fusion that really worked. The
way in which his career took of was absolutely phenomenal.

What effect will Moby's departure to Elektra have on Instinct?

Actually, it's quite exciting for us since we've put out three Moby albums to
date. The more success he has now with a large label, hopefully that will
make some real value in the back catalogue. And I think the music in his back
catalogue, the original Moby album, his recently released ambient works
album, are fantastic albums. So the more he does with Elektra, the more
people who'll get to hear these records as well.

Why have you geared Instinct towards techno?

I don't think we ever meant to become involved in techno as much as just
being involved in underground dance. As a  DJ I had always been involved with
dance music and as sounds and trends evolved, I like to be one of the first
people in playing newer music, so techno became the newer sound that was
emerging so we found ourselves there.

Do you think it's good that techno has evolved into many sub-catagories, like
trance, ambient and tribal?

I think those are all much better words than 'techno' because that doesn't
really say anything, and techno has become such a pop word at this point. You
hear the word 'techno' and you think of bands like T99 or Human Resource or
Quadrophonia which are sort of that really early noisy phase of techno.
Trance, ambient, tribal, break beat, that allows for a lot more breath of
expression in describing what's going on. It says more about the music so I'm
glad there are now more nuances. Post techno electronic music I prefer as a
label because what we're listening to now, I don't think it's really techno
anymore. It's just sort new electronic alternative. I think it's just like
when New Wave started, at first it was just a couple of bands who all sounded
one way, and then it went into so many different directions within a few
years that the word 'new wave' no longer meant anything. The same with
techno, it's spread out into every possible direction.

As a DJ who' sbeen involved with techno music since the beginning, what do
you feel are it's origins?

I don't know. The evolution of techno is something that's been rehashed so
much and argued about so much that I don't know if I really care to
participate in the debate. I mean, did it start in Chicago? Did it start in
London? I don't care. I mean, there's bit of it drawn from all over, from
industrial, from house, from acid house, from Detroit techno.

What attracted you, personally, to the music?

I just liked always hearing things that were new or different and had some
energy, often a bit of anger or drive. The underground is always about what's
new, what's different, what hasn't been done before. It's explorative and
that's what attracted me to techno as it began to evolve, the same things
that attracted me to punk and New wave back then. I didn't always like dance
music back in the disco days, I was heavily against.

It seems that the media suddenly latched onto techno and rave culture,
starting about a year and a half ago. What effect has this had on the scene?

The media latching onto a scene always has its good aspects and its bad
aspects. The good aspect is that it makes a much larger part of the public
aware that there is something new going on that maybe they should pay
attention to. The bad part of it is that when the media doesn't fully educate
the public and the public goes 'oh there's a new sound we should go hear it'
then they're susceptible to being misled by anything that slaps that label
on. In other words, everyone knows now that they should go hear this wild new
thing called techno but they have no way of knowing what is real techno
versus that is crass, rip-off commercialized techno. So that's the two sides
of it.

How do you characterize the "crass, rip-off commercialized stuff"?

Crass commercial exploitative stuff tends to be bands and labels slapping
things together to ride the name, to ride the trend, to ride the banner.
Either it's bands who don't really fit the genre trying to take 'oh this
sound is a techno sound and if we put it in the song it's a techno song.'
Things like that. I think we all know what that music sounds like and who
those bands are.

Do you think this has made those in the underground scene stay on their toes
and try to keep techno constantly evolving?

Commercialization is not driving the breath of techno. The emerging breath of
techno is an outgrowth of the maturity and the growth of the artists
themselves. Originally, it was fun to take these few sounds and do the stuff
that all sounds the same. Everyone started from there but then they thought
'well what if I do this?' or 'actually I kind of like this kind of music what
is I used it with that?' So the growth and breath has come from the artists.
Commercialization would like everything to remain the same and easily
categorically.

What problems do you see in the media's coverage of techno and rave?

The main problems with the media in the US is that it's geared towards
writing about things that are already very successful. In Europe and the UK,
there are so many music magazines, weekly, monthly, and they're all busy out
there trying to get the scoop and beat everyone else to hearing like the
wildest new white labels or new music. In the UK, everyone wants to discover
the newest music. Here in the US, you have two or three monthly magazines and
none of them want to risk putting something that isn't proven already on the
cover. So here it's the other way around. I don't think media here is doing
enough to shape the techno scene.

Do you think the media putting too much of an emphasis on the negative
aspects, like the drugs?

I think it's a tempest in a tea pot, it's happened about every kind of new
music. Rock and roll, Elvis Presley's the devil's music. Punk, disco, every
time there's a new form of entertainment and groups of youth getting together
in a place, it just raises concern. I don't think a lot of people are too
concerned or crazy about it.

Does the fact that rave culture has its own drug, ecstasy, make the situation
worse?

People are always scared by what they don't know. Yeah, the fact is that in
the public's eye rave and this particular music scene was at least by the
media so extensively linked to a particular drug. It causes a lot of concern.
I don't know if that concern isn't right, and yes to everyone involved it all
seemed harmless but then there's the older, more mature generation, our
parents, and they're concerned about it.

Do you see any parallels between Shamanism and the role the DJs play at the
rave?

Wow. I don't know if the DJ's are really the shamen, because I think the DJ
culture and the hype of DJs is more between the DJs and the industry than in
the eyes of a lot of the kids. In Europe, it's a bit different. In Europe,
there really is a lot of attention that's paid to the DJs and everyone knows
the big names and they're stars. But in the US, I don't think that there's a
DJ oriented culture. Not in the same way. Because dance music has never been
afforded the same respectability in the US that it is overseas. The US is
still very much the land of rock and roll and has not and still is not
changing. Rave is still a very small undercurrent and I think the people who
go are focusing on the music, focusing on what they're experiencing. I don't
really think it revolves around the DJ that much.

But many people see raves as almost a religious expereince. Do you see the
connection?

It can be, and especially I think if you're young you might be able to
mistake it for that, especially if you're indulging in something like X. I
mean, anytime you're doing something when you're tripping and it's a
hallucinogenic experience it's not a very real experience. The whole thing
about religion is religion is supposed to be other worldy anyway so I can see
where people hopefully don't confuse the two things but there is a certain
fantasy element and escapist element to it all. There is for the first time
in your life realizing that everything may not just, can be perceived in ways
other than what it seems to be.


Do you think that more people knowing about the rave scene has changed it?

There's probably some of that. Initially any movement contains just the real
diehards and devotees and as more people find out about it, people jump in
and want to be involved for other reasons who may not be of the same
motivation as the original people. There's a certain amount of that and
there's a certain amount of 'oh remember the old days' by people who were
there first. They always want to remember what they were doing as it being
better back then. It can be hard to filter the two out. Do I think raves are
better or worse now? I think now there are good raves and bad raves, this
year. 3 or 4 years ago I'd been to good raves and bad raves. 

How do current raves differ from the original ones?

Well, I've never participated in the European side of it, so that's difficult
for me to answer and I'm probably not the best one to ask that question
because it goes back a few years further there and frankly I wasn't there.

Do you think the fact that you often need to be "in the know" to find out
about rave events makes it more attractive to people?

I think there's some fun to that. People enjoy the adventure involved in it
not being just a regular club with a known address and location and you have
to know the passwords and things to go to those kind of parties. I wish there
were more of those actually at this point that a lot of it is getting very
codified and oriented to specific clubs. A lot of that was also circumvental
legalities of having to have the space but they have become part of the
climate. I can use the term 'mysticism' but also 'quasi - elitism' as well.
It makes it difficult for others to be involved, that shroud of mysticism.

Do you think that there is tension between the new generation of rave kids
and those who have been with it from the beginning?

I think a lot of people involved in the beginning will lose interest, because
they mature and move beyond it and you can't keep doing the same thing over
and over again. So it may not even be that the culture is declining but if
you've been doing the same thing for two or three years you grow and want to
move on. And there's people who are now discovering it and for them it's
incredibly fresh. They may be having just as intense an experience right now
as the person who had that experienced it  two years ago. But the person two
years later will think it's horrible, that it's not like it used to be
because they're not a new initiate anymore.

Do you see Instinct heading in a more commercial direction?

We hope to have some records that are massive, massive successes so that we
can keep continuing to diversify and presenting music as out there and
unusual as what you hearing now. I hope to keep things as explorative and
adventuresome as possible. That takes money, unfortunately. So you'll hear
some of, hopefully not crash commercialized music but we've got to keep the
public happy as well if we're going to be able to keep the underground
happy.You have to do both.

A lot of people have drawn parallels between 60's culture and today's rave
culture. Do you see a comparison?

I can't speak because I wasn't active in the 60's culture, I was being born.
But it seems to be fairly similar. But I think that's because the people
involved are all young. It's a sincere outgrowth of youth who are somewhat
detached from the prevailing pop culture and that seems to have a recurring
pattern in nature when it does occur. That happened in the 60's and it
appeared to be happening again now. I could guess the participants are being
driven by similar reasons because yes there is a parallel. 

Copyright 1993 Bob Gourley. This article may only be reproduced
electronically and for non-profit purposes. Contact rsgour@aol.com