Testing, 123 testing. Um, can you hear me? Hello? ABC 123. Well, that's not good. A classic scenario, huh? They heard me before, but they do not hear me now.
 You hear me? Okay, great. All right. Shall we get started then? Time to cat point. I'm just drinking my tea. And looking quite nice. Let's see, I got my webcam working.
 Okay.
 Okay, everyone. Oh, yep. Let's go. Time to cat point. So everyone can hear me now, right? ABC 123, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can hear me now, correct? I'm just blabbing to make sure.
 Everyone can hear me. Okay, excellent. Uh, hi, everyone. I'm some odd. You might know me because I do a lot of half scale. And I certainly do a lot in the gopher space in I got my own gopher hole. I hosted in my house. You know, I recently moved, you may have noticed that was down for a little bit, because I host it right at home, along with other services. And I came
 to bit right, because they're one of the foremost. They're like the front runners in the gopher space right now, quite frankly, that's what really what interested in me was I stumbled across their gopher hole and gopher space. And there's a lot of reasons that I became interested in this. But you know, I want to talk to the people who made the gopher protocol and that kind of developed into this documentary, which I'm here to talk about.
 Today. Okay, so I'm making a documentary on the small net revival. You might be familiar like with the concept of the small net. The documentary is primarily going to feature the gopher protocol, but it's going to generally encapsulate this kind of modern movement of the small net. This documentary is going to be talking about why
 gopher and lean protocols and the like, like IndieWeb matter today. It's going, pardon me, it's going to go over why it's going to go over tech culture, community, and resistance to in shitification. And I imagine I hit enter to go to the next slide. No. Oh, there we go. Arrow
 so some of the voices driving it. You might be familiar. We have some celebrities like Cory Doctorow. Cory Doctorow actually has, to my surprise, some experience running a gopher server and some early internet experience in that space in general. Cory Doctorow primarily will be talking about it kind of from like a
 philosophical perspective. And of course, we're going to have pretty much most of the early internet gopher protocol pioneers, Mark P. McHale, Bob Alberti, and Paul Lindner. And if you look up the gopher RFC, you'll notice that these are more or less some of the main people.
 But we're also going to be talking to just some of your more average small net people in general. People who have their feet in the IndieWeb, you know, prominent small net and IndieWeb people. You know, I was able to interview Mellon King, which was very interesting.
 And just a lot of people who are in the small net and gopher space scene. And perhaps most noteworthy to you all is Bitrike comes up quite a bit due to them being the most relevant to gopher in 2025 and the future.
 So that's very exciting. We have some key partners for the documentary. One of these key partners is a museum that I actually volunteer at called The Maid.
 And it's an interactive library in the form of a cross between a video game museum and just a general retro tech museum. And what's so unique about it is I feel like Oakland really lacks these spaces where kids or adults or the like can just have like a shared community space that's actually engaging and even educational. They let you interact with the history there. You know, they let you play the console.
 The games. You know, I've donated some really interesting piece of equipment there. And it's just run off of love. Primarily, you have a lot of really wonderful people working at The Maid. So I encourage you to check them out. The Maid, M-A-D-E dot org. And of course, another key partner is Bitrike. Because, you know, they've just been so pivotal.
 In everything in gopher space. I've given 20H like full access to the archives for the documentary. You know, once the documentary comes out, of course, we can distribute it on Bitrike and by a torrent. All the things, right? Some of the core themes of this documentary is going to be
 going over the history of the gopher protocol. Especially since we're going to be talking to lots of people who either made it or were a part of it in one way or another. And during that early internet. The next is going to be about simplicity as freedom. Because this is like a recurrent theme with all the people that I've talked to about the gopher protocol is this idea of simplicity.
 And not just limited to the gopher protocol. But in terms of the small net revival to this day. It's really driving home this concept of simplicity. And that's something that's kind of admirable about Bitrike in general. Is it really focuses on, you know, the Unix philosophy of small reusable bits that you can glue together, right? It's very simple. Keep everything simple.
 Reinvent the wheel. And the way that ties philosophically into more transparent and more freeing technological structures. Which is something I'll have to delve into either in a Q&A. Or we can cycle back to it. But it'll definitely be in the documentary. Simplicity as freedom. The next is going to be about community over commerce.
 And I've definitely noticed that theme in Bitrike. Kind of generally in gopher space. Which emerged out of a period of the internet. Which was not allowed to be commercialized. And it's very interesting to see that that kind of perspective and sense of humor is still alive in gopher space today.
 And the resistance of making the internet worse for profit is still alive and well. Especially on the small net. That's a big core theme. The next theme is about enshitification. You know, when I was thinking about people to interview. Beyond the obvious scope of people. I did think of Cory Doctorow.
 I thought about his concept of enshitification. But when I interviewed him. He also brought up this idea of the compostable web. Which is a really interesting topic to delve into too. But enshitification is this like life cycle. That commercialized platforms live out. Serve users to get scale. Exploit users to favor business customers.
 Exploit business customers too. And you may notice that a lot of startups. And software. Especially services. Go through this life cycle process. Where they just kind of get worse. As the years go on. And you know when you have these simple protocols. And this simple way of doing things. And more ownership over what you're doing. And there's just more user involvement. And.
 There's a different kind of ownership model. You know which falls into this idea of a compostable internet. It's very resistant to that kind of thing. I think that's part of what attracts people to it. So some timelines. The timeline and milestones for this documentary. So right now we're in the midst of doing research and interviews.
 And I've interviewed Bob Alberti. Mark P. McHale. Paul Lindner. Mellon King. Who you may know from Mellon Land. I also have plans. Oh and of course Cory Doctorow. I have plans to interview 20H from Bitrike. He was talking about actually flying out here. Which would be really cool. And you know if you have any suggestions. For more people I should interview. Just let me know. I was definitely thinking about.
 Interviewing people. Who run their own gopher holes. I was thinking about interviewing the guy. That runs mozz.us. M-O-Z-Z dot U-S. Because he runs a very cool. Gopher hole. I've just been so busy lately. But thankfully this is more of a long term project. So we're hoping that this is going to hit. Production. Quarter one of 2021.
 At the latest. Hopefully. You know. Cutting everything up. Narrativizing. You know. Actually doing the production. Putting together the film. Making the trailers. And then. I expect by quarter two of 2026. At the latest. And this is all. You know. At the latest. I'm hoping that by quarter two of 2026. We'll have a rough cut. Festival.
 Submissions. Community screenings. There's actually a theater near me. I was thinking about doing a screening at. Called the Roxy. But you know. This brings me to my next point. How you can help. You can spread the word about this. You can use a hashtag. Small net doc. You can host local screenings. At your hackerspace or library.
 You can definitely torrent. Or seed. The documentary for. Prosperity. Or post it on your gopher server. You can share. Your experiences. About gopher. Small net. But what would be really useful. Is if you send pieces. Of gopher history. Memorabilia. Or maybe you help us get some. Very useful interviews. So now. I'm looking at the IRC. And I'm wondering if any of you.
 Have any questions. For me. I'm open to do. You know. Talk about any part. I'm not sure if anyone had any questions. I know I kind of. Glossed over some of the parts. Of the themes. You know. We talked about. And shitification. And compostability. That sort of stuff. Anyone have any questions?
 You know. That. Would be so amazing. It's funny. Okay. So the question is. Will you hire actors. To redo scenes. Of the gopher first days. And you know what springs to mind. Is Bob Alberti. One of the key people. Of the gopher protocol. That's in the RFC. He's actually. Really into writing plays. And has.
 Acted. So it might be. So much fun. To ask if he'd like. To reenact. Some of those first. Gopher days. So wouldn't that be wild. And you know. Maybe while you're here. We can get some. B-roll of you. On a computer. Or terminal. I literally. I have like a VT320. At my house. And that's. That's kind of. Of the era. You know. Yeah. Any other questions.
 Oh. The feedback. I had from people. New to gopher. Oh. Like. Particularly. About the documentary. I think. What's hard. Is that.
 You have to really understand. How to explain. That the internet. Isn't just the web. And you have to delineate. What the web is. From what the internet is. That. The way I usually explain it. To them. Is I say. So you know. You have a web browser. Right. And you know. You can go to websites. Well. That just exists. On the internet. That's one way.
 Of accessing. Stuff. Different computers. On the internet. Is you use the web. You use a web browser. But there was something. That preceded that. There was a different way. Of doing things. Than just accessing things. Through a web browser. And it was called. The internet. Gopher protocol. And it was. A very structured. Simple way. Of doing things. You know. It was very slimmed down.
 And it was designed. From a very. Kind of. Academic. And even. Like. A librarian's. Perspective. Is the W3C. Spying on you. And do agents. Follow you. Daily now. Well. I definitely. Haven't noticed. Anyone glowing. So I think. I think I'm okay. For now. But. I think it's really interesting. That a lot of people.
 In the gopher space. Are definitely aware. Of the kind of. Surveillance. Aspect. And. Their data. Being sold. And all of that. Yes. Yeah. Glowies. And you know. It's interesting. You brought up W3C. Because. You know. It's sad. That something. That started off. As a kind of.
 Open standard. Tim Berners-Lee. I believe. Was just recently. Forced. To accept. Something about. Like. DRM standards. By all these huge. Tech companies. Or a risk. Like the W3C. Not being a thing. Anymore. I think this is very important. When it comes to like. Making considerations. For the. Small net. Anyone else have any.
 Questions. And. A bit. Right. Is a really. Unique space. Where a lot of people. Are not only. Just involved. In the gopher protocol. But actively. Developing. For it. You know. Some of the things. I brought up. Were like. Bit. Reich's ideas. For gopher VR. Which get talked about. Quite a bit. In the documentary.
 As well. As. You know. I'm working on. Various. Softwares. For gopher. And even. Modifying them. To be more in line. With some of the core. Design philosophies. At bit. Reich. And. You know. You can check out. My gopher hole. At gopher. Some odd. Z. I. P. Zip. And I host that. Right out of my house.
 Which is like. Right behind me. That's great. Somebody said. I'm willing. I'm excited. And willing. To support you. Well. You're welcome. It's been. A real honor. Being able to be. A member of bit. Reich. And to contribute. In these fun. And interesting ways. With like.
 Documentary. And some of the other stuff. And I really look forward. To collaboration. In the future. And. Getting bit. Reich's name. Out there. And helping. Not just make. Not just preserve. Go for history. But what I think. Was so important. About bit. Reich. Is. Gophers. And small. Nets. Future. Like. Bit. Reich. Is so. Concerned. With the future.
 It's one of the first places. I've. Been. And. In like a. Small. Net. Space. That's actually like. Looking at the future. It's a. It's. The documentary. Is not just about. History. But it's also about. The evolution. Forward. You know. And that's why I brought on. Corey Doctorow. Was to talk about. And I talked. With everyone. About this. About like. What are some lessons. From the past. About creating communities. What are. Some visions.
 For the future. Why are people. Going to this. Now. How can we. Have a more stable. Ecosystem. For the future. Uh oh. Okay. Can you still hear me? I had one side. Of my headset. Die. So I. Hope you can still hear me. Um. I'm just gonna check. Okay. Excellent. Uh. So. Yeah.
 And that's one of the reasons. I brought on. Corey Doctorow. Uh. Because. Almost. As. A sense of. Warning. Analysis. Uh. Juxtaposing it. With the current state. Of the web. But yeah. Everyone I interviewed. And talked to. With. It's. Not just about the past. It's not just about the present. But it's about. Looking forward. Into the future. What place. Does the gopher protocol. Serve. Practically.
 Artistically. Even. I think. And. Uh. You know. At least for me. Artistically. Uh. And. Furthermore. Um. And other more niche. Applications. You know. I talked to. The original gopher creators. I talked to people. On the small net. Uh. At least one. Or two. And um. That sort of thing. So yeah. It's very forward. Looking. Which is what I admire. So much about. Bitrike. Is that it's very forward looking. About the protocol.
 I got. I got a little bit more time for questions. If anyone has any. You know. That would be nice. Uh. But that might be a harder interview to get. Might be a harder interview to get. Um. I might be able to like snake my way up there. You know. I tend to be pretty good at getting things done.
 To know people. But that would be very difficult. And it's all a matter of time. Right? Like. I really want to get this out. By. Early 2026. At. Latest. I don't want this project to drag on forever. And. Part of the reason why. Is. Uh. I really want it to be able to help. Uh. The museum. The maid. You know. Uh. Draw more attention. Get them more funding. That sort of thing.
 All right. Um. No problem. My pleasure. Thanks for giving me the space to talk. And thanks for. Uh. Creating Bitrike. It's been a very interesting place.
 I think that does it for me. Unless somebody wants to squeeze in. I got one more question. One more question. Ten. Nine. Eight. Seven. Six. Five. Oh. How's the weather in San Francisco?
 Uh. Sporadic. It's. Summer. Supposedly. But it's quite cold. Quite cold in San Francisco. Um. But. I love San Francisco. And what can I say? There's also so much. Beautiful tech history here. And. It's wonderful that like. Going to the internet archive. With all these early internet pioneers. And just preserving our digital history. Is just like a hop. Skip a jump in a way. In San Francisco.
 Ain't that something? Okay. Uh. Goodbye everyone. It's been really nice talking to you all. Uh. And this conference setup has been very interesting. You know. I'm. I'm broadcasting my voice via FFmpeg. I SSH'd in. For the presenter mode. Quite interesting. Bye bye.
 Bye bye.