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                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
  HTML Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
  HTML   Interstellar Mission to a Black Hole
       
       
        dlasud wrote 3 hours 33 min ago:
        Sied
       
        LogicFailsMe wrote 18 hours 10 min ago:
        Seems like first we need to get out of the gravity well...
        Then we need to cure ageing to give people skin in these games...
        Then we need to crack FTL or find a way to cryo-sleep or we end up with
        dystopian science fiction ships of the damned...
        
        Not in my lifetime I suspect...
       
        optimalsolver wrote 18 hours 40 min ago:
        Having read Michael Crichton's Sphere, I think I know how this ends.
       
        hunterpayne wrote 19 hours 18 min ago:
        Isn't Relativistic time dilation a problem for this idea?  To the
        probe, the trip is only a few centuries but to us on Earth, millions of
        years.    Maybe 0.1c isn't enough to cause this to be a huge problem but
        I think it is.    Perhaps one of you Einstein enjoyers can tell us for
        certain.
       
          prerok wrote 18 hours 21 min ago:
          Time dilation is exponential. At 0.1c it's definitely measureable but
          not a practical problem.
       
          turtletontine wrote 18 hours 28 min ago:
          Time dilation is 1/sqrt(1 - (v/c)^2). So at 0.1c that’s 0.5%.
          Certainly much higher than any human has ever experienced! But not
          exactly gonna change 100y to 100,000,000y.
       
          kakacik wrote 18 hours 31 min ago:
          No need to be snarky and especially not here re basic science. Time
          dilation happens exponentially, ie with 0.5c you don't have time
          going 1/2 slower, rather a miniscule amount. Once you keep
          approaching speed of light closer and closer, all things go extreme
          (time, energy required, mass and so on).
       
        amai wrote 23 hours 21 min ago:
        What is the point of such a mission? There is literally nothing to see
        there.
       
          Cthulhu_ wrote 20 hours 55 min ago:
          A black hole may be invisible but its accretion disk and the effects
          on the light being deflected around it are anything but.
       
        ck2 wrote 1 day ago:
        The most aggressive yet most realistic project we could reasonably do
        is the SGL Telescope
        
        Won't happen under this administration and really might take a
        planet-wide effort but it would be incredible [1] [2]
        
  HTML  [1]: https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2022/07/22/solar-gravitational...
  HTML  [2]: https://www.nasa.gov/general/direct-multipixel-imaging-and-spe...
  HTML  [3]: https://www.universetoday.com/articles/a-mission-to-reach-the-...
       
        vee-kay wrote 1 day ago:
        Related:
        "Project Solar Sail" by Arthur-Clarke and others, is a good anthology
        (stories, essays and illustrations) about the new Age of Sailing
        (Sailing in Space)via lightships and solar sails.
       
        wartywhoa23 wrote 1 day ago:
        It is stated multiple times across the article that the probe would
        need a means of changing is trajectory, but not even a hint of idea how
        that could possibly be done is given. So the most important and
        blocking aspect of the mission is simply skimmed over, and the rest of
        it is built upon this omission as if it was something trivial to come
        up with.
        
        Does anyone have an idea how to equip a 1g spacecraft with any means to
        steer itself at 1/3 speed of light? The kinetic energy at that speed
        would seem to require something very incompatible with the weight
        constraint, to my understanding.
       
          ithkuil wrote 18 hours 54 min ago:
          "steering" is a word that can lead to confusion because it leverages
          the intuition that we have with our ground vehicles.
          
          A change in direction in space requires accelerating the vehicle in
          some direction, the effect of which is just simple vector addition of
          the velocity vector of the vehicle.
          
          So if you are going with a huge velocity in one direction and you
          want to change direction significantly in another direction you have
          to change velocity (accelerate) a lot in order for the combined
          vectors to produce a significantly different final velocity vector
       
          bawolff wrote 21 hours 58 min ago:
          > So the most important and blocking aspect of the mission
          
          Idk, i think the fact they are using statistical arguments that there
          should be a nearby black hole, but haven't actually found any or have
          any idea where they are, is pretty blocking.
       
          stronglikedan wrote 22 hours 29 min ago:
          gyroscopes?
       
          floxy wrote 1 day ago:
          Since momentum is conserved, why not just have a 2 of the 1 g probes
          strapped to each other with a spring in between.  When you need a
          course correction at 100 AU out (or whatever).    The probes calculate
          how much of a correction is needed, adjusts a screw that tightens or
          loosens tension on the spring, reorients itself appropriately with a
          reaction wheel, then the two probes are released from each other,
          begin pushed apart with the spring.  One probe gets the trajectory
          correction it needs, and the other gets further off course.  Maybe
          with some gravity assists with nearby objects. [1] also:
          
          Roundtrip Interstellar Travel Using Laser-Pushed Lightsails
          
  HTML    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist
  HTML    [2]: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/24...
       
            sheepscreek wrote 11 hours 45 min ago:
            Can a gyro work in space? Probably not or all the satellites would
            be using it instead of gas/ionized gas based propulsion.
       
              nandomrumber wrote 6 hours 53 min ago:
              Gyroscopes are used in spacecraft / satellites in the same manner
              they are in aircraft, to measure changes in orientation.
              
              Reaction wheels are used to make adjustments to orientation. See
              [1] Thrusters of all sorts can also be used, generally to
              maintain altitude in satellites, and more generally to provide
              thrust for space probes.
              
  HTML        [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_wheel
       
            Cthulhu_ wrote 21 hours 5 min ago:
            What would the "screw" push off of? That rotational force would
            need to go somewhere or be corrected, else the probes would just
            rotate. I guess a gyroscope could do that, but what you're
            describing just sounds... very roundabout, and in terms of force, a
            few kilos of propellant would have the same effect.
       
              floxy wrote 20 hours 7 min ago:
              This is infeasible for the reason other have mentioned about
              specific impulse.  But surely you can imagine a set of parallel
              boards with a coil spring between them and a set of cylindrical
              guide rods to prevent relative rotation between the boards. A
              motor fixed to one board turns a screw that engages with threaded
              nut on the other board, mounted on a thrust bearing, and guide
              bushing that allows a linear movement, but disallows the rotation
              degree of freedom.  Think of the lead screw on a milling machine
              or lathe.
       
            Alex-Programs wrote 21 hours 10 min ago:
            That's just a really, really ineffective rocket. A spring has
            nowhere near the energy density of chemical fuel.
       
            hinkley wrote 21 hours 21 min ago:
            Because the specific impulse of the spring is negligible when
            you’re moving at 1/10c and why would they send a 1g probe if they
            could accelerate 100kg to that speed? Why do you suppose doubling
            the weight would be free instead of making the system infeasible?
       
            vjvjvjvjghv wrote 23 hours 44 min ago:
            Isn’t that basically how a rocket works? Throw stuff out one side
            to get the thing on the other side moving. Not sure how this would
            compare to a rocket engine with hyperbolic fuel.
       
              hinkley wrote 21 hours 25 min ago:
              Only in the sense that throwing a knife at someone is the same as
              shooting a howitzer at them.
              
              Specific impulse.
       
                vjvjvjvjghv wrote 20 hours 41 min ago:
                As far as impulse goes, the spring will probably be pretty
                inefficient relative to mass.
       
                  sandworm101 wrote 19 hours 12 min ago:
                  No.  Very much no.  The spring system would literally throw
                  away half the mass of the craft for, maybe, a 10m/s delta. 
                  Fireworks would be more efficient.  A pitching machine
                  attached to a huge pile of baseballs would be more efficient
                  (ie the baseballs could be thrown faster).
       
                    celticninja wrote 3 hours 57 min ago:
                    They all weigh a lot more than 1g though.
       
                      hinkley wrote 21 min ago:
                       [1] Please read.
                      
  HTML                [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse
       
                  hinkley wrote 20 hours 17 min ago:
                  The point we are trying to make is that there hardly anything
                  that would be less efficient relative to mass.
       
              dylan604 wrote 22 hours 45 min ago:
              It compares in that it doesn't require said hyperbolic fuel. That
              fuel is heavy and finite.
       
                mlsu wrote 9 hours 33 min ago:
                You can think of the hypergolic fuel as a type of spring. The
                chemical energy stored in the bonds of the fuel is what pushes
                the fuel products apart when it reacts. This is what pressure
                is, it's nothing more than KE of molecules.
                
                The 'spring action' of fuel is very good because there's a lot
                more energy (per unit mass) stored in the bonds. Orders of
                magnitude more than a mechanical spring.
       
                  dylan604 wrote 2 min ago:
                  But a mechanical spring will reset itself to its natural
                  position once tension is released
       
                lazide wrote 22 hours 30 min ago:
                Uh, it does - the ‘fuel’ is the other probe.
                
                Notably, this also has a particularly bad ISP?
                
                Also, probes are presumably also heavier and rarer?
       
              floxy wrote 23 hours 7 min ago:
              Yes.
       
          palmotea wrote 1 day ago:
          > It is stated multiple times across the article...
          
          I was a bit confused by your comment, but I think the article you're
          referring to is not the OP, but the article the OP was commenting on:
          [1] > Does anyone have an idea how to equip a 1g spacecraft with any
          means to steer itself at 1/3 speed of light? The kinetic energy at
          that speed would seem to require something very incompatible with the
          weight constraint, to my understanding.
          
          I'm also wondering how such a thing is supposed to communicate back
          to us over dozens of light years. That also seems incompatible with
          the weight constraint.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(25)01403-8...
       
            floxy wrote 1 day ago:
            >I'm also wondering how such a thing is supposed to communicate
            back to us over dozens of light years.
            
            Just spit-balling here.  Send out the first batch of probes and
            then 5 years later send another batch of probes.  The first batch
            of probes does their surveying for 5 years, when the later batch of
            probes start arriving.    The data is uploaded to the late-comers,
            who aren't on an intercept course.  Instead they are on a
            trajectory that causes them to swing around the black hole, and
            head on back to earth with the data.
       
              palmotea wrote 23 hours 28 min ago:
              > Send out the first batch of probes and then 5 years later send
              another batch of probes.
              
              What's the separation there, at 0.33 lightspeed? 1.65 light
              years? Wikipedia says Voyager is 168.35 AU away, and Google says
              that's 0.00266 light years. Voyager has 23-watt radio focused by
              a 3.7m dish and its signals are received by a 70-meter dish on
              Earth.
              
              So you're talking about a 1g spacecraft signaling another 1g
              spacecraft over 620 times the distance to Voyager, without any of
              the beefy equipment that exists on both ends of the Voyager link.
       
                floxy wrote 23 hours 8 min ago:
                Hmm.  Seems like you are you multiplying 5 years by 33% of
                light speed to come up with 1.65 light years?  I apparently
                didn't explain well enough.  The 5 years is for the first batch
                of probes to gather data over an extended period of time (while
                in orbit around the black hole).  The second set of probes is
                just a roundtrip "fly-by" to collect the data from the first
                probes and return it to earth.    No reason that the return trip
                probes would have to be very far from the data gathering
                probes.  Maybe you can't orbit close enough to the black hole
                at these speeds without getting too close to the accretion
                disk?
       
                  palmotea wrote 22 hours 29 min ago:
                  Even then, I think you're going to have massive distances
                  between tiny probes moving very fast relative to each other. 
                  Maybe not 1.65 light years, but communication over Voyager's
                  0.00266 light years or even a much smaller distance (e.g.
                  Earth to moon) seems insurmountable for two 1g probes.
                  
                  Also, the probes are in deep space, right? No solar power.
                  Where are they going to get the energy?
       
                    floxy wrote 20 hours 19 min ago:
                    So skip the communication, and just have the one probe do
                    the gravity assist to get headed back to earth with the
                    data it collected.
       
                    floxy wrote 21 hours 36 min ago:
                     [1] ?
                    
  HTML              [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betavoltaic_device
       
            NoMoreNicksLeft wrote 1 day ago:
            >I'm also wondering how such a thing is supposed to communicate
            back to us over dozens of light years.
            
            Split particle pairs. We just need to repeal the no cloning
            theorem, maybe if we promise to not use it for FTL communication
            the legislators would go for it.
       
              VonTum wrote 16 hours 41 min ago:
              We could call them "Sophons" while we're at it.
       
          sigmoid10 wrote 1 day ago:
          People don't realise this, but you can steer perfectly fine with a
          solar sail. That's because photons transfer momentum not just when
          they hit the sail, but also when they are emitted after reflection.
          So just by turning the sail at an angle, you can create a force in
          any direction perpendicular to the velocity vector. Using a two sail
          system, you can even accelerate and slow down along a single beam
          path. So you could theoretically travel to mars with a constant
          acceleration/deceleration phase (like a flip-and-burn in the Expanse)
          using only one beam emitter on earth.
       
            kragen wrote 22 hours 44 min ago:
            How long would it take for a person to get to Mars with a sail
            powered by an Earth-based laser?
       
              lazide wrote 17 hours 25 min ago:
              Infinite time since we have no realistic way of making such a
              laser at this time - and anyone trying it is likely to get nuked
              before they finish their massive death ray.
       
                kragen wrote 16 hours 8 min ago:
                Stipulate that we have the laser.
       
                  sigmoid10 wrote 8 hours 37 min ago:
                  Depends entirely on the power output of the laser, the
                  dispersal length and the size, weight and reflectivity of the
                  sail. Since we are already talking about imaginary
                  technology, any answer between "slower than current chemical
                  rockets" and "some significant fraction of the speed of
                  light" could be valid.
       
          marcellus23 wrote 1 day ago:
          It's not skimmed over, they cover it near the end in the
          "Requirements and challenges" section:
          
          > The most challenging phase of the mission may be related to how the
          nanocraft can transfer from an unbound to a bound orbit and start
          orbiting around the compact object. All possible solutions should be
          considered carefully. In the case the transfer is not possible, we
          may redesign the mission to perform the scientific tests when the
          nanocraft passes close to the black hole. For example, when the
          nanocraft is close to the black hole, it may separate into a
          mother-nanocraft (with a wafer and sail) and a number of small
          nanocrafts (without sails). The nanocrafts could communicate with
          each other by exchanging electromagnetic signals. The
          mother-nanocraft could compare the trajectories of the small
          nanocrafts to those expected in a Kerr spacetime and send the data to
          Earth.
          
          Light sales can theoretically be used to not only accelerate away
          from Earth, but also decelerate at the end of an interstellar journey
          (see Robert L Forward's work). The practicality of that is another
          matter.
       
            hinkley wrote 21 hours 17 min ago:
            There’s a really straightforward way to avoid a parabolic
            trajectory with a black hole. But data retrieval gets a bit
            difficult.
            
            More seriously, it floors me how often and consistently people
            forget that the accretion disk is essentially a partial accelerator
            and crossing or entering it will probably pulverize you to
            radioactive dust. Possibly before you could hit the event horizon.
       
              marcellus23 wrote 20 hours 11 min ago:
              Not every black hole has an accretion disk, especially not
              isolated ones.
       
                hinkley wrote 11 hours 13 min ago:
                So the question there is if it’s worth it for us to study a
                naked singularity. What would it teach us?
                
                And how do you get into orbit?
       
                  celticninja wrote 3 hours 54 min ago:
                  Is it worth studying?
                  
                  Yes. Yes it most certainly is. Whatever we learn will be new.
       
          estimator7292 wrote 1 day ago:
          Solar sails. You can fire a shit ton of lasers from the planet (or
          orbit) at the probes and very,very slowly boost them up to the
          desired velocity.
       
          dvh wrote 1 day ago:
          Simply. You do Monte Carlo with the probes. You fire 1000 and one or
          two will have perfect trajectory so that no correction is needed.
       
            gus_massa wrote 1 day ago:
            I don't think 1000, or even 1000000 are enough if you use random
            directions. Space is huge. This has been posted here afew times
            
  HTML      [1]: https://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsyste...
       
            magnat wrote 1 day ago:
            Did you, by any chance, play Outer Wilds recently?
       
          antonvs wrote 1 day ago:
          Easy fix: change the description to "Interstellar Mission to the
          General Galactic Vicinity of a Black Hole"
       
        Mistletoe wrote 1 day ago:
        How do you stop if your solar sail has you going near light speed?  Or
        does it strand you halfway between stars in the doldrums where the
        force on both sides of your sail equals out from two stars?
       
          kakacik wrote 18 hours 23 min ago:
          I don't think we can just go near speed of light. Even hard vacuum
          out there contains particles. Heliosphere is chock full of them, then
          Oort cloud has stuff way bigger than that (or any probe), even if
          sparsely spread out. Then there is cosmic stuff outside, as Voyager
          found out.
          
          Getting hit by some random molecule when orbiting Earth or just
          travelling say 30,000 kmh is one thing. Getting hit by swarms of
          molecules with say 0.5c can be catastrophic to the material. Now
          imagine wading through some space dust cloud, or even plasma cloud
          (ie remnant of some bygone supernova).
          
          Star trek had shields, and for good reasons. Super strong magnetic
          field may divert some charged particle, but helium molecule is just a
          helium molecule, no extra charge to play with.
       
            prerok wrote 18 hours 11 min ago:
            Nit: shields were just for battle, for this they used the
            deflector.
       
          Razengan wrote 1 day ago:
          > Or does it strand you halfway between stars in the doldrums where
          the force on both sides of your sail equals out from two stars?
          
          This is actually I "love" to think about:
          
          What would it be like, to be "stranded" in the space far from any
          stars?
          
          or in the "voids" where there are relatively very few stars/galaxies
          to begin with?
          
          There must be things drifting there right now...
          
          It would also be the perfect place to HIDE something :)
       
            dumpsterdiver wrote 1 day ago:
            It’s where the future hides :)
       
            jiggawatts wrote 1 day ago:
            If intelligent life evolved on a planet of a brown dwarf — a
            “failed” star — that was ejected from its original galaxy
            deep into intergalactic space, then that species would be
            spectacularly isolated.
            
            Note that the “naked eye” stars we see in our night sky are all
            big, bright stars in our immediate vicinity.
            
            Outside of a galaxy the night sky would be black, other than some
            fuzzy smudges of other galaxies.
            
            It would be a long time before any such species would figure out
            what galaxies are, what stars are, and their own relationship to
            those things.
            
            Their study of astronomy would take a wildly different path even
            assuming they end up at the same conclusions!
            
            And then what? What missions could they envisage, tens of thousands
            of light years away from the next nearest… anything?
       
              Razengan wrote 18 hours 55 min ago:
              > If intelligent life evolved on a planet of a brown dwarf — a
              “failed” star — that was ejected from its original galaxy
              deep into intergalactic space, then that species would be
              spectacularly isolated.
              
              Even better, (or worse): A species that evolved on a rogue
              planet! Without any star!! (heated by it's core or nuclear
              elements or space magic or whatever)
              
              > It would be a long time before any such species would figure
              out what galaxies are, what stars are, and their own relationship
              to those things.
              
              Humans are bad enough with our "We're unique and special!"
              complex, imagine theirs!! lol
       
              floxy wrote 23 hours 56 min ago:
              Do we have a good estimate for the density of intergalactic
              stars?    Or how far away from a star will you be on average, when
              you are, say halfway between the Milky Way and Andromeda?
              
  HTML        [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergalactic_star
       
                jiggawatts wrote 10 hours 58 min ago:
                Apparently this is very new science, the information is still
                being collected as cutting edge research.
                
                One thing that is clear is that the intergalactic medium has a
                highly variable density. In the vicinity of a recent galactic
                merger or near-miss, there would be a smear of stars fading off
                into the distance.
                
                Conversely, even a fairly quiet and passive galaxy like our own
                is expected to eject stars at a rate of one every few hundred
                years from the core region immediately nearby the black hole
                there.
       
          SiempreViernes wrote 1 day ago:
          You don't stop this type of craft, it's strictly accelerate and coast
          type of thing.
          
          Also note that "solar sail" is a bit misleading, the (now apparently
          dead) Breakthrough Starshot design was a big reflector "sail" in
          space and very many lasers on Earth to power it, it's not actually
          driven by a stellar wind directly.
       
            ianburrell wrote 19 hours 35 min ago:
            Solar sails aren't powered by solar wind but by light reflecting
            off like the probe. But the probe would be powered by laser so not
            really "solar" sail. Light sail is the generic term.
       
            zelos wrote 1 day ago:
            This suggests ejecting a secondary mirror in front of the craft to
            reflect light to brake the original craft: [1] :
            
            "...or by ejecting a reflector that is then used as a braking
            system (similar to thrust reversal on jets) but this only works if
            the payload is still within illumination range of the primary laser
            system"
            
  HTML      [1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1604.01356
       
              dotnet00 wrote 19 hours 40 min ago:
              Flipping the sail around would probably be the lightest option,
              though tricky because the larger sail designs would not be rigid.
       
          hvb2 wrote 1 day ago:
          You would fold the sail?
       
            hansmayer wrote 1 day ago:
            That would not stop the probe from continuing to glide further.
            He's making a good point here.
       
              ceejayoz wrote 1 day ago:
              Gliding is fine. We whizzed past Pluto with New Horizons. Never
              stopped, just a photo flyby.
       
            voidUpdate wrote 1 day ago:
            That only stops you accelerating, it doesn't put the brakes on
       
              jordanb wrote 1 day ago:
              Deceleration is the same as acceleration. You use the light of
              the star you're approaching to slow down.
       
                Cthulhu_ wrote 20 hours 56 min ago:
                But if you're going near light speed, the light / particles
                would be too faint to have any significant effect until you get
                very close. You'd basically just fly backwards straight into
                it. Unless your sail is very large and/or the total mass is
                very small.
       
        hansmayer wrote 1 day ago:
        Such a fantastic overview. And here we are, instead of building the
        infrastructure for accelerating solar sails, we're investing the money
        in AI-pornbots instead :/
       
          wewtyflakes wrote 15 hours 20 min ago:
          Well, they are both on a mission to a black hole.
       
          Cthulhu_ wrote 20 hours 52 min ago:
          AI porn sells, solar sails are a research project at best. There is
          no money to be made from space flight, only discovery, and
          unfortunately capitalist forces far outweigh curiosity.
          
          Even the space race wasn't for science but for politically one-upping
          the others, doubly so because being able to bring a payload into
          space also demonstrates they can bring a payload anywhere on the
          world.
       
          TheOtherHobbes wrote 1 day ago:
          What are the odds the first alien probe to visit the solar system
          will be a pornbot or some form of marketing droid?
       
            Cthulhu_ wrote 20 hours 52 min ago:
            If you subscribe to the Futurama school of comedy, very high, lol.
       
              prerok wrote 18 hours 0 min ago:
              
              
  HTML        [1]: https://xkcd.com/1642/
       
          radu_floricica wrote 1 day ago:
          Considering AI-pornbots are increasing the derivate of the function,
          they might actually be the right move.
       
          einrealist wrote 1 day ago:
          At least the AI-pornbots will operate from space. /s
       
        api wrote 1 day ago:
        What’s be super cool is discovering a! asteroid mass primordial black
        hole in our solar system. No epic interstellar flight needed.
        
        It would be super hard to detect though. We’d have to spot it by
        gravitational effects or get very lucky and notice lensing. It would
        emit nothing unless it happened to be nomming on some matter, and even
        then it’d be so small that the signal would be weak.
       
          Cthulhu_ wrote 20 hours 58 min ago:
          If it was asteroid mass, wouldn't it have the same gravitational
          effect of an asteroid itself? Plus, someone else mentioned it'd be
          like a micron across, which if my pop-sci understanding of these
          things is correct, it'd disappear in a poof of hawking radiation.
       
            api wrote 19 hours 36 min ago:
            It would have the same mass, and it would be tiny -- like the size
            of a hydrogen or helium atom.
            
            AFAIK an asteroid mass black hole wouldn't evaporate yet since the
            CMB is still warmer than its Hawking temperature. Very tiny black
            holes would have evaporated earlier in the universe. A black hole
            evaporates when its Hawking temperature exceeds the ambient
            temperature.
       
          pavel_lishin wrote 23 hours 32 min ago:
          I remember reading somewhere that it's possible for such a black hole
          to get captured by an asteroid (or vice versa, I guess), and happily
          live inside a rock, slowly orbiting inside the asteroid, sucking up
          atoms here and there.
          
          It would be detectable as an asteroid that's twice as dense as it
          should be.
       
          terminalshort wrote 1 day ago:
          Could you find it by Hawking radiation?
       
          antonvs wrote 1 day ago:
          We wouldn't have to get lucky if it was on the last stages of
          evaporating. If it has reached a mass of about a billion kg it would
          be shining plenty bright to detect, and would only have a few
          thousand years to live before destroying most life on Earth with
          gamma radiation.
       
            terminalshort wrote 1 day ago:
            According to this calculator [1] , the luminosity would only exceed
            that of the sun for 46.7 nanoseconds, so unless it's much less than
            1 AU away we would probably be fine.
            
  HTML      [1]: https://www.vttoth.com/CMS/physics-notes/311-hawking-radia...
       
          NL807 wrote 1 day ago:
          >It would be super hard to detect though.
          
          Would it? I would've thought there is enough dust in the solar system
          that it would create constant xray emissions. Even if it's faint, it
          would stick out like a sore thumb on super sensitive xray telescopes.
       
            TheOtherHobbes wrote 1 day ago:
            An asteroid-mass black hole is around a micron across. It's not
            going to be nomming on much because the matter distribution inside
            the solar system isn't that dense.
            
            Any tiny black hole born in the big bang would either have
            evaporated (if Hawking was right...) or would have grown much
            larger by now.
            
            Even a moon-mass black hole (0.1mm) wouldn't be eating much,
            although its gravitational effects would be much more obvious.
       
          the8472 wrote 1 day ago:
          We do not what such a thing anywhere near Earth though.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9911309
       
            api wrote 19 hours 35 min ago:
            Only if it evaporates, which it probably wouldn't do for billions
            of years.
       
              the8472 wrote 16 hours 21 min ago:
              Something of asteroid mass would be above the CMB equilibrium
              temperature, thus already be undergoing runaway evaporation. From
              the paper:
              
              "This implies that M must be less than 0.8% of the mass of the
              Earth"
       
          noam_k wrote 1 day ago:
          That would be cool.
          
          I read somewhere that a black hole with the mass of the moon will
          absorb about as much cosmic radiation as it emits Hawking radiation.
          This is a fine line between "the black hole disappears before we can
          examine it" and "oops, we got eaten by a black hole".
       
            antonvs wrote 1 day ago:
            If it's in a stable orbit in the solar system, it wouldn't be able
            to "eat" us. Black holes gravitate exactly the same as any other
            mass, so it would have the same gravitational effect on Earth as
            any object if the same mass.
            
            What makes black holes special is that you can get much close to
            their center of mass than you can with normal objects. When you're
            that close - inside the radius that a normal density object of that
            mass would have - then you experience gravity at a much higher
            strength than normal.
            
            Put another way, even if our Moon was a black hole with the same
            mass, very little would change except that it would no longer
            reflect sunlight. Ocean tides on Earth would remain the same. You
            wouldn't want to try to land on it though...
       
              akomtu wrote 22 hours 11 min ago:
              There was a movie where Moon was a hi-tech 'megastructure' with a
              white dwarf inside. I wonder if it would be theoretically
              possible to set up such a mini-dyson sphere around a
              mini-blackhole.
       
                api wrote 19 hours 33 min ago:
                If you set it up at the right radius it would have 1g gravity
                at the surface, like a little mini-world. It wouldn't be able
                to hold an atmosphere though, so it would have to have
                pressurized buildings on it.
       
                  throwaway290 wrote 40 min ago:
                  Somebody write a sci fi with this please, just make sure to
                  describe how trash disposal works
       
            MomsAVoxell wrote 1 day ago:
            Hey, its not like an analog of "Yeah, lets just throw some more
            mass at the newly-forming black hole in our neighbourhood", said
            every human that has ever thrown things into the fire, forever ..
       
              api wrote 19 hours 39 min ago:
              Black holes aren't cosmic vacuum cleaners. They're just super
              super super compact objects.
              
              I've actually posted this a few times:
              
              If you suddenly transformed the Moon into a black hole of the
              same mass, it would continue to orbit the Earth in the same spot.
              It wouldn't suck up the Earth or anything. The ocean tides would
              continue as normal under the influence of the black-hole-moon's
              gravity, which would be the same if it was orbiting at the same
              distance. You wouldn't see a moon in the sky, but if you focused
              a good telescope on where it was you'd see gravitational lensing.
              It would be a little smaller than a BB.
       
              gus_massa wrote 1 day ago:
              Sorry, but I have to link the "Hole Lotta Trouble" episode of
              Pocoyo
              
  HTML        [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL_0OL7vZ44
       
                MomsAVoxell wrote 19 hours 46 min ago:
                Yes, you really do.
       
       
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