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                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
  HTML Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
  HTML   This Month in Ladybird – October 2025
       
       
        fguerraz wrote 6 hours 1 min ago:
        While I truly admire how much progress they’ve made, and respect that
        everyone should pursue whatever they feel like doing with their time,
        it still feels to me like such a waste that it’s not written in a
        modern memory safe language.
        
        I fear it’s ultimately going to be the most promising, least safe
        browser to use.
        
        But hey, I want to be proven wrong, so I still gave them some money…
       
          robinhood wrote 5 hours 53 min ago:
          They've started to gradually use Swift in the last year or so.
       
            ramon156 wrote 3 hours 4 min ago:
            There still isn't a solid plan, which worries me a bit. This is
            going to end up as a rewrite of a rewrite.
            
            That's not to say it isn't realistic, but it's definitely going to
            be interesting.
            
            I also think Swift will bring in more contributors
       
        anthk wrote 7 hours 15 min ago:
        This will be what Otter Browser failed to do in order to create a
        widely used browser written in QT after Konqueror under KDE3 days. And,
        well, the same with Falkon/Qupzilla.
        
        Ladybird might be the next Opera but without reusing the Blink engine
        making it a Chromium clone. And, OFC, fully libre.
       
        KaiMagnus wrote 7 hours 31 min ago:
        I’m impressed how well Google maps works already.
        
        Seems though as if the WPT score is not super meaningful in measuring
        actual usability. The growth of passed tests seems suspiciously uniform
        across browsers, so I guess it has more to do with new passing tests
        being added and less with failing tests that got fixed.
       
          jeroenhd wrote 4 hours 53 min ago:
          A large amount of tests includes rendering text and basic elements
          correctly, which is an incredibly difficult problem. Getting JS to
          render right is one thing, but preventing bugs like "Google Maps
          works but completely breaks when a business has õ in its name"
          requires a lot of seemingly useless tests to pass.
          
          Fixing a few rendering issues could fix all of the tests that depend
          on correct rendering but break, so I think the rate at which tests
          are fixed makes a lot of sense. [1] shows that even the big players
          have room for improvement, but also has a nice breakdown of all the
          different kinds of tests that make up the score.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://wpt.fyi/results
       
          zaruvi wrote 7 hours 24 min ago:
          >We’ve continued to make solid progress on WPT this month. There
          has been a significant increase in passing subtests, with 111,431 new
          passing subtests bringing our total to 1,964,649.
          The majority of this increase comes from a large update to the test
          suite itself, with 100,751 subtests being added - mainly due to the
          Wasm core tests being updated to Wasm 3.0.
          
          They fixed ~10k tests, but indeed this month is a bit of an exception
          as there were lots of new tests added.
       
        bovermyer wrote 7 hours 33 min ago:
        Good progress this month! Good to see it running on Windows now, even
        if I don't use Windows myself anymore. That'll help boost adoption once
        it releases.
       
          throwaway34564 wrote 6 hours 54 min ago:
          If they'd just have used an Electron stack from the get-go, it would
          have been cross platform already
       
            thiht wrote 3 hours 15 min ago:
            That makes no sense, they're writing a browser engine...
       
            nechuchelo wrote 6 hours 44 min ago:
            If they were happy with using an existing browser engine, they
            wouldn't be writing one from scratch
       
              throwaway34564 wrote 5 hours 16 min ago:
              I agree, they can write it from scratch and compile to
              web-assembly. That way they can use Electron for the UI layer. 
              (apparently needed)
       
          mindcrash wrote 7 hours 12 min ago:
          True open source web browsers on Windows, and MacOS, are dead in the
          water.
          
          This is because of the lack of Widevine CDM, and the majority of
          people wanting to stream stuff using services like Tidal, Netflix and
          Spotify.
          
          They will also want to use a single browser for everything, which in
          practice means Edge, Chrome, Firefox or Safari.
          
          Ladybird will very likely not have access to Widevine, because of the
          cost, requirements, and Google as gatekeeper. Some developers of
          small opensource Chromium/Electron based browsers also earlier tried
          and Google simply said no.
          
          And even if they have reverse engineered the CDM extension (which
          will make Widevine work, not unlike a small hack/workaround with
          regard to Chromium and Chromium forks) it will not work because all
          browsers using Widevine on those two platforms require something
          called VMP (Verified Media Path) which is, as far as I understand, a
          certificate and verification library supplied by Widevine embedded
          within the browser.
          
          Without VMP embedded in the browser streaming from popular commercial
          providers such as Netflix will not work on Windows and MacOS, even
          when the Widevine extension is in fact active.
          
          Believe me, I checked.
          
          IMO all of this is not only set in motion to (try to) protect from
          piracy, but also to kill any serious competition from small parties
          like LadyBird, and to keep the browser market firmly in the hands of
          the likes of Microsoft, Apple and Google. Because who will use a
          browser in 2025 unable to stream content, or without hacks at 720p
          maximum? (looking at you, Brave and Netflix)
          
          This also means that browsers like Brave, Vivaldi and Firefox are in
          fact not true opensource browsers because their respective public
          repositories do not contain the assets needed for VMP signing.
          
          On another note, at this moment the majority of people should be glad
          that browsers with corporate backing and enough income like Brave
          (whatever you might think of Brendan Eich's ideas), Vivaldi and
          Firefox exist because without them you would have no serious choice
          on Windows or MacOS at all.
       
            morcus wrote 3 hours 52 min ago:
            I don't know the usage numbers so I might be way off, but with
            Smart TVs becoming a more common thing I can't remember the last
            time I tried to stream video on my computer.
            
            Am I in the minority here? Do we have stats on what the breakdown
            of streaming traffic is by Mobile / TV / Desktop?
       
              doubled112 wrote 3 hours 39 min ago:
              I'm another that tends to stream directly on a TV.  Or a tablet.
              
              It's very possible it's a workaround to the streaming on PC
              situation though.
       
            muyuu wrote 4 hours 53 min ago:
            > This is because of the lack of Widevine CDM, and the majority of
            people wanting to stream stuff using services like Tidal, Netflix
            and Spotify.
            
            Well, there's a niche.
            
            Personally I have zero interest in Netflix and Spotify and I don't
            even know what Tidal is.
       
              gertop wrote 3 hours 28 min ago:
              Wanting to stream multimedia content from commercial streaming
              services is definitely not a "niche."
       
                muyuu wrote 3 hours 16 min ago:
                never claimed such thing
                
                people who are not interested in these things, or can use
                separate systems for those things, are a viable niche for a
                pure-OSS distribution of Ladybird
       
            jeroenhd wrote 4 hours 59 min ago:
            You can build Firefox without Widevine if you don't like DRM. The
            browser itself will work just fine. A few specific websites won't,
            by design: they do not want to work on computers that will let you
            save the high-res video they serve to a file.
            
            Without EME, we'd still be stuck with Silverlight or ActiveX DRM in
            these browsers. There are browsers without Widevine that stream
            just fine; they use FairPlay and PlayReady instead. The current
            situation is still a significant improvement over the days when
            "free" web browsers were still a thing.
            
            This isn't a web browser problem, it's a video streaming problem.
            As it turns out, the vast majority of people care more about
            streaming Netflix than they do about software freedom.
            
            The minority that wants a truly open browser can buy DVDs and
            Blurays, or pirate the content they want to stream.
            
            If Ladybird is willing to agree to the right terms and sign the
            right paperwork, I'm sure they'd get Widevine support eventually,
            but obviously they wouldn't be able to publish the source code for
            any of it.
       
            Santosh83 wrote 5 hours 50 min ago:
            How is withholding Widevine CDM not anti-competitive behaviour?
       
              martini333 wrote 5 hours 34 min ago:
              @EU
       
            dorfsmay wrote 6 hours 3 min ago:
            Does Widevine CDM work on Firefox on Linux?
            
            If so, why would Google allow this but not for other OSS browsers?
       
              tmikaeld wrote 5 hours 31 min ago:
              It doesn't, this is also the reason that streamers like Nvidia
              Shield or Apple TV are the only two choices if you want to view
              4K content at all.
       
                SSLy wrote 5 hours 10 min ago:
                and yet ~some devices are constantly pwned, and pristine UHD
                WEB-DL's are being ripped automatically.
       
                skywal_l wrote 5 hours 17 min ago:
                I have been using firefox on linux for a little more than a
                decade now and haven't realize I was missing on anything so I
                guess it's probably not a real problem.
       
                  ac29 wrote 3 hours 41 min ago:
                  Netflix et al work on Linux but are limited to 480p.
       
                    anthk wrote 2 hours 37 min ago:
                    Without the propietary Widevine, maybe.
       
            mistercheph wrote 6 hours 51 min ago:
            yeah, that's a problem for me like losing access to E! and TLC when
            getting rid of tv service box, legacy media platforms bye bye,
            hello copyright violation in sweet sweet high bitrate 4k
       
            nurumaik wrote 6 hours 53 min ago:
            Well, they want me to view free movies if I use free browser, then
       
              teddyh wrote 5 hours 42 min ago:
              You mean gratis movies using a libre browser.  They are not the
              same concept.
       
            binary132 wrote 7 hours 2 min ago:
            I don’t know about you but I am perfectly content to use a free
            browser and open either a nonfree browser or an app if I want to
            use a feature that is not available in my preferred software.
       
              RamRodification wrote 6 hours 48 min ago:
              I don't know about you but I am very sad that I can't really
              recommend a browser not made by evil-mega-corp (or their
              associates) to friends and family because for some stupid reason
              that I can't explain to them, they aren't allowed to view high
              quality streaming video with it.
       
                binary132 wrote 4 hours 4 min ago:
                “It doesn’t work with Netflix, but I just open Chrome when
                I want that”
                
                is that really so hard?
                
                DRM is not a good thing
       
        garganzol wrote 7 hours 38 min ago:
        I always wonder why there are no download links. Alpha, beta, something
        at least.
       
          stephen_g wrote 7 hours 12 min ago:
          Alpha is supposed to come out next year. Until then they don’t want
          to offer downloads so people who don’t understand software
          development don’t download highly unstable pre-alpha software and
          judge it based on that. Those kind of first impressions can stick.
       
          haunter wrote 7 hours 23 min ago:
          I use these on Mac
          
  HTML    [1]: https://sizeof.cat/project/ladybird-builds/
       
          _diyar wrote 7 hours 36 min ago:
          Its pre alpha, you can build it from source.
       
            lkramer wrote 7 hours 23 min ago:
            Yeah, it's quite easy to do from a normal laptop. The instructions
            are very clear and straightforward. Have played around with it a
            few times.
       
       
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