Subj : Clandestine activity is a holy cow of democracy
To   : ALEXANDER KORYAGIN
From : BOB KLAHN
Date : Sun Jul 28 2013 12:15:02

 AK> Hi, All!
 AK> Forward from English_tutor

 RW>>> He's tried to keep his information from being revealed, but that
 RW>>> may not last, depending on who has that information now.

 ak>>> This information is just a scandalous information which tells the
 ak>>> world about methods of CIA and other similar organizations.

 AK> ^^^
 RW>> NSA-------------------------

 AK>    Anyway, Snowden did his best. If we think it over, the
 AK>    logic is simple. The state must NOT have full control of
 AK>    its citizens. The state must not have power to suppress
 AK>    all clandestine activity. The state must not develop
 AK>    such technical instruments that make clandestine
 AK>    activity impossible. Because it is a matter of democracy
 AK>    survival.

 All true, and irrelevant. Any state that wants that control will
 develop the technology to give it that control. The only answer
 is to develop an electorate that will kick out any government
 that tries to gain that much control.

 Dictatorships will try, and all that will stop them is their
 inability to do so, or a populous that will overthrow them.

 AK>    Suppose, the state controls its people to such an
 AK>    extent, that it knows all people connections. This means
 AK>    that a member of clandestine organization cannot hide
 AK>    anywhere among his friends, acquaintances and even
 AK>    people with whom he once had a phone talk. Why it is

 People do need to understand, clandestine does not automatically
 mean illegal. It most certainly does not automatically mean
 immoral. The WWII resistance movements, for example. Illegal but
 not immoral. The secretive social groups, such as the Masons
 etc. Clandestine, as keeping their internal activities secret,
 but not illegal, and not immoral, as far as we know.

 Then again, there are social groups that are fully clandestine,
 as in keeping themselves secret, such as sexual swapping groups.
 Immoral by common usage, but not illegal in many places.

 Civil rights groups in the South during Jim Crow might be
 clandestine, but not immoral, and not illegal under the US
 constitution, no matter what local laws said.

 AK>    bad? Because clandestine activity is a holy cow of
 AK>    democracy. If some bustards came to power and they have

 And that is key. Democracy has to allow people to keep secrets,
 as long as they are not hurting others. Dictators will not allow
 clandestine operations no matter what, so rules of morality
 aren't relevant to them.

 AK>    all levers to suppress any clandestine activity they
 AK>    will be able to do it. And resistance will fail. That
 AK>    why the state must not be too powerful, too omnipresent.

 A long time principle in the US. One often forgotten, and often
 ignored.

 AK>    That's why NSA activity to trace all phone calls must be
 AK>    stopped, and its equipment and spy bases destroyed. It
 AK>    will, maybe, create some difficulties in catching real
 AK>    criminals. But it worth it. It provide freedom and
 AK>    democracy more chances for survival.

 It's the fear of the smallest chance of hurt that drives people
 to allow such loss of freedom.

 Those who said we had to fight in Iraq to keep the terrorists
 from following our troops home were cowards, and they doomed the
 mission to failure from the beginning in any case.


BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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