Subj : Clandestine activity is a holy cow of democracy To : ALEXANDER KORYAGIN From : BOB KLAHN Date : Tue Aug 06 2013 13:17:46 LL>> Jeffersonian violence is acceptable if, and only if, a regime LL>> becomes so oppressive that it has lost its legitimacy to govern. By LL>> that way of thinking, it is not an act of treason but rather an act LL>> of patriotism. AK> Who is a person who decides that the current regime is AK> becoming oppressive and totalitarian? Everybody decides AK> it for himself and then decided to fight with such a AK> regime or do nothing. Snowden did the same. "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ..." That is Jefferson's standard for a legitimate government. Any government that rules without the consent of the governed can be justly opposed. However, the opposition must realize, they do not have the right to force their opinions on others. There is no perfect government, sometimes we have to live with governments we don't want, as long as they attained power and hold power with the consent of the governed. AK> LL>> It is treason only if the parties are not successful in LL>> overthrowing the evil regime... AK> Yes, a victor as a rule is always right. That's why now AK> Mursi in Egipt is acáused in state treason, spying etc. AK> ;-) And a year before, Mursi himself accused Mubarak of AK> the same things. The typical response of the dictator wannabe. ... LL>> If al-Qaeda has a nuclear bomb it will take over Mecca and threaten LL>> to blow up the black rock. And then, when the Saudis think al-Qaeda LL>> is bluffing, the bomb will be detonated. And Israel will be blamed. AK> Al-Qaeda bombs Caaba with a nuclear bomb? I am afraid AK> you don't live in the real world. ;-) Lee typically journeys between this world and one we ordinary mortals somehow cannot understand. BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn .... (A)bort (R)etry (T)ake an ax to it? --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg] * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140) .