Subj : Re: Clandestine activity is a holy cow of democracy To : BOB KLAHN From : alexander koryagin Date : Thu Aug 15 2013 10:36:58 Hi, BOB KLAHN! I read your message from 14.08.2013 02:19 AK>> ;=) Well, well, who doubts around the world that American history AK>> books tell that the Vietnam war was victorious for the US? AK>> Propaganda doesn't allow the opposite, especially if the opposite AK>> is humiliating. BK> Actually, American history books do not describe Vietnam as a BK> victory for America. And we know the US lost the war. Not all know BK> it, but most of us do. So it was Lee's fantasy. ;) AK>> But in this case the USSR had won the Afghan war, too. The USSR AK>> had won the war, victoriously left the country, and Afghan AK>> government forces, then, shamefully lost everything, fighting with AK>> the Taliban resistance. BK> The Taliban did not exist before the war, nor was the Taliban the BK> resistance. The Warlords won the war, then corruption gave the BK> Taliban the opening to take over. Taliban was created by the US as a weapon against the USSR, as well as Bin Laden, who was, one time, a welcomed person for the US. That's why a Bin Laden's trial has always been impossible and he was killed. AK>> Victory -- is a situation when an invading side gets what it AK>> wanted before the invasion. We know what the US BK> True, and what Lee said is also true. Lee's words is like the situation about Travor Martin's case. Did the guard-killer win over Travor Martin when he attacked him? The same situation was when American invaded in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. It was not a victory; it was a crazy lawless violence. Another example -- suppose, you want to rob a bank. You penetrate into it, kill guards. But there is no money in the bank at that time. Can you consider yourself a victor? AK>> declared before each invasion. The US invaded into Afghanistan to AK>> catch Bin Laden, the US invaded in Iraq to destroy its stockpiles AK>> of weapon of mass destruction. BK> The US invaded Iraq to control the oil. The rest was lies. It is not correct, by a simple reason - Saddam had never refused to sell Iraqi oil for the US. Vice versa - on the ground of weapon of mass destruction possession the US refused to buy oil from Iraq by imposing strict sanctions against that country. LL>>> thought. When the soldier returns home, he/she often has no help LL>>> or support from his/her (military) family. The former soldier is LL>>> left to defend for himself/herself a way of life he/she has long LL>>> forgotten. AK>> First of all, I told of a host of servicemen whose task is to AK>> suppress popular meetings and movements. To BK> Not in the US. You said, you don't have a special police force in the US which is trained to disperse people's rallies? I saw myself how violently were dispersed the people from "Occupy Wall street" movement. AK>> It was an allegory, I repeat it. I tried to explain why resistance AK>> in high tech future will be doomed to defeat. That is why we AK>> should not use this high technology to spy on everyone now. BK> Doesn't matter. The only govt that will give it up is a govt that BK> would be able to handle it decently. Well, imagine that NSA says one day: we want to implant to all the people special GPS chips, and this will make possible to defeat all crimes. If you are not against defeating all crimes you will agree with the chips implanting. But the people who want feel themselves free will say another words - let some crime be. We will not fight it at the expense of our freedom. Freedom is more important. We will fight in in some other ways. Which way? Well, let take the terror attack against the US in 2001. How it was possible to prevent such attacks? Easily! All the doors to pilot's cabins have to be closed, and no prostitutes should be allowed to seat on pilots laps and take photos. Before the terrorist act it was almost like this. But this simple measure makes it impossible to repeat 2001 style attacks by using passenger planes. Sound order and responsibility is better than blanket surveillance. Bye, BOB! Alexander Koryagin fido7.debate 2013 --- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds * Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2) .