Subj : speculation
To   : ALL
From : BOB KLAHN
Date : Wed May 29 2002 15:26:40


BK>>I really don't think much of Thomas Friedman, but sometimes he
BK>>comes up with something interesting. His recent column raised
BK>>questions about the effects of climate change and oil depletion,
BK>>and their effects on Iran and Egypt. Yet it raised another
BK>>consideration.

 TR> Thomas Friedman is yet another individual who's boots Klahn
 TR> isn't qualified to wipe.

 Richardson would spit on Friedman's boots, and not to shine
 them, but his is so warped he now praises Friedman.

 TR> Thomas Friedman was educated in no less than six
 TR> universities, including Brandeis, Oxford, and the American
 TR> University in Cairo.

 Which does not mean he knows one damn thing about the world of
 manufacturing, or the lives of the middle class. Yet he comments
 on those things as if he does, which is nwy I don't think much
 of Friedman.

 TR> He is also a well-published author and has won the Pulitzer
 TR> Prize three times.

 Which does not mean he has the slighest idea what he is talking
 about, only that he writes well.

BK>>I have long believed the great majority of Muslims don't give a
BK>>damn about Israel or Palestinians.

 TR> For people who `don't give a damn about Israel or
 TR> Palistinians'...they sure kill a lot of innocents.

 Not Israelies or Palestinians. The great majority of Muslims are
 no where near Israel or Palestine.

 TR> And have been murdering Americans for several decades now.

 And Americans and Europeans in general have been responsible for
 inflicting brutal dictatorships on Muslims for generations. The
 US is responsible for the breakdown of order in Iraq, and the
 deaths of at least 100,000 people since 2003.

 Just recently the CIA released a report admitting they
 engineered the coup that put the Shah of Iran in power.

BK>>Most are far away from the area, most thousands of miles away.

 TR> As we have fround out in recent years, a muslim is as far
 TR> away as their nearest koran. The islamics are the
 TR> modern-day inquisition: convert to islam or die.

 All that does is reveal Richardson's ignorance of Islam. Now had
 he said the Saudi based Wahhabi I would not disagree. OTOH,
 Jews and Christians have lived under the rule of Muslim
 governments for over a thousand years. The time of Islamic rule
 of Spain called the period of the greatest flowering of Judaism
 in Spain by the Jewish Virtual Library.

 On top of that, Richardson is likely ignorant of the fact that
 the Orthodox Christian Churches have a patriarch over all the
 branches. He was originally located in Istanbul, back when it
 was Constantinople. He is still there, after all these centuries
 of Islamic rule, the Orthodox Christians felt no need to move
 him to a Christian country.

 TR> The Catholic Church wiped out whole ancient civilizations
 TR> and cultures in their time.

 Now he wants to go off on an anti-Catholic rant.

 TR> The tremendous loss of the
 TR> ancient library in Alexandria alone was a crime committed
 TR> by the `Church' lost who knows how much ancient lore and
 TR> knowledge to the world, due to the murderous zealotry of
 TR> some Catholic fanatic bishop (or whatever he was) in
 TR> Alexandria. The heavy-handed destruction of the materials

 Which apparently is a false description of the destruction of
 the library. Just google library of alexandria burning. I opened
 the first four articles to show up.

 TR> there that had been accumuliated since three hundred or
 TR> more years before Christ was born, was a loss beyond
 TR> calculation.

 Other than the fact that didn't happen, what's your point? Oh,
 the library was burned, but it wasn't just burned once, but at
 least 3 and as many as 5 times. The records are not very good.

 The first time was not long after it was built, during a civil
 war.

 The second was when Julius Caesar burned part of the city as a
 tactic in a battle. The Library was in that part of the city,
 though the Romans did loot a lot of the library before the
 burning. Notice all that happend long before there were
 Christians.

 The third time was when Emporer Aurelian invaded Egypt about 273
 AD. In 391 the Coptic Patriarch Thiophilus burned the library
 putting down a rebellion. At that time the Coptic church was
 Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.

 There is no evidence the library was totally destroyed in any of
 those fires, and good evidence it was not.

 TR> With two thousand years of `Christianity' under our belt,
 TR> and finally, within only the last couple of hundred years,
 TR> winning freedom from the zealotry and blind stupidity of
 TR> Catholicism (which caused who knows how many deaths and
 TR> countless amounts of destruction for almost 18
 TR> centuries)...modern man is now being assaulted by an even
 TR> crueler and more vicious religious zealotry, Islam.

 It appears you are hostile to all forms of religion. Or is it
 just monotheism?

BK>>Muslims, for the most part, are no more aligned with or supportive of
BK>>others sects or even their own than Christians are of other Christians.

 TR> Where we have pretty much gained control over
 TR> Christianity's dark side...not so, Islam. The modern-day
 TR> Islamic fanatic has far more destructive tools at their

 Which seems to be a small fraction of the Islamic population.
 Notice how the current crop of fanatics are radicalized in
 Europe, or the US, not in the Middle East? What mosques are
 radicalizing them? Who subsidized those mosques? Want to take
 bets?

 TR> disposal. It is only a matter of time before an aircraft
 TR> with a nuclear weapon aboard, or a freighter or
 TR> petroleum-bearing ship carrying carrying a nuclear missile,
 TR> with fanatical Islamics at the controls of the one or the
 TR> other, delivers the ultimate terrorist attack to America's
 TR> shores.

 It's only a matter of time until a fanatical Christian launches
 a nuclear war that destroys civilization.

BK>>I am speculating that the animosity against Israel is
BK>>concentrated largely in the Middle East. I am further
BK>>speculating that is has little to do with Jew or Muslim, Abraham
BK>>or Muhammed, but mostly is concerned with water.

 TR> So far...even counting since 9\11\2001...I haven't heard a
 TR> single word about this all being `about water'.

 What have you heard about Israel? 9-11 had nothing to do with
 Israel. Iran has nothign to do with Israel, other than Netanyahu
 and his groups exploitation of the situation for political gain.

 TR> The whole problem is (and always has been) Israel. Jews and
 TR> Arabs have never gotten along in five or six thousand
 TR> years. And it wasn't about water back then, either.

 Since pretty much all Jews were Arabs 6 thousand years ago,
 until probably the Babalonian captivity, that's absurd.

 Considering the majority of the Jews in Israel were Arabs until
 the 1990s, that's again absurd.

 TR> In fact... desalination plants along the Mediteranian coast
 TR> of Israel provide a large amount of Israel's water, along

 A large amount? What percentage? At what cost?

 TR> with the lake Kinneret, also known as `The Sea of Galilee'.
 TR> And a new desalination plant soon to go into operation,
 TR> will provide Israel with around 7 million gallons of fresh
 TR> water per hour.

 Try giving your figures in terms used in Israel, so they can be
 compared.

 TR> Now...aside from a few crops of whatever they grow in the
 TR> way of vegitables and hay or straw...I don't see Israel
 TR> having much in the way of resources. Most of the oil is in
 TR> Arab countries. And most Arab countries with oil are rich
 TR> beyond any real need. So...they can build their own
 TR> desalination plants, a lot of them.

 Which Arab countries? Saudi Arabia has a per capita GDP lower
 but a great deal than the US or many European countries. Iraq
 has an oil industry that is still crippled. Iran is not Arab,
 but it is hobbled by sanctions. So, where are these rich Arabs
 who can pay for water? And are they the ones in conflict with
 Israel?

BK>>Water is the most valuable resource in a desert land, and
BK>>religion can be just another division along which to align to
BK>>divide up the resources.

 TR> It just boils down to a fanatical religion. If it were

 It just boils down to the anti-religion fanatics.

 TR> `about water'...why would they go to the trouble of
 TR> declaring death sentences on anyone who insults their
 TR> so-called prophet, Muhammad?

 Since when does that have anything to do with the subject?

 Anti-religion rant deleted.

 TR> No...it isn't `about water'. Its about Israel. And it
 TR> became aimed at America because of America's support of
 TR> Israel.

 Again, why would they give a damn about Israel? Notice the most
 fanatical nation, Saudi Arabia is one Arab nation you hear so
 little of hostility toward Israel?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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