Subj : Re: WW II (was: Re: Musical memories)
To   : JOE MACKEY
From : George Pope
Date : Sun Oct 17 2021 15:06:41

 >   Cyberpope wrote --

 > > Canada was most responsible for saving the day in WW1 (Vimy Ridge was the
 > > turning point, all scholars agree) & in WW2, most of Europe credits Canada
 > > more than any other.
 >  
 >    But if it hadn't been for the US supplying arms, munitions, tanks,
 > ships, food, etc none of that would have happened.

This is the substance of endless non-completable debates. My response is
usually "Let's agree to disagree &/or leave it open for further evidence"

I'm always reading, so I may, at any time, change my position, when the facts
force me to.

I may not not always be right, but I'm never wrong.

I thought I was wrong once. . .but I was mistaken.


 > > Japan was separate from WW2 -- that was a private economic+power struggle
 > > disagreement between Japan & USA.  Japan gave written two week notice
 > > before attacking Poearl Harbor. (a military target; Nagasaki & Hiroshima
 > > had no military bases)

 >   Japan had been overrunning Asia since 1931.
 >   Japan had no coal or oil (to speak of), which ran its manufacturing,
 > whereas other parts of Asia did.

So Japan desperately needed access to Middle Eastern oil to maintain their
industroal age growing population/society.  The USA blockaded it to Japan, so
the emperor said unless the blockadse was lifted, they were going to attack the
USA's Pacif naval base on 7 December of that year (1941)

Japan was an ally of Germany, but this was a separate issue & not done in
supportr of Hitler's designs on global dominance. (he was clear -- first
Europe, then the Middle East, Africa, & only after they were secured(including
obliteration of Jews, gays, et al), the Americas.

 >   The warnings were rather cryptic (somewhere, someday) and our military
 > leaders didn't think carriers would be used to launch air attacks.  Their
 > collective eyes were on Australia and Philippines, not expecting a end run
 > "behind the lines on Hawaii.

See above. It was a clear date, but, yes,no time on it -- I would've been ready
for 2am, myself, not expecting it to begin past dawn.

Of course, Japan would use a carrier -- how else do you support a trans-ocean
military engagement?  USA does the same: step one is to move at least one
carrier into position (c.f. Baghdad, 2003)

I know rthis, so why didn't your high level generals & the CinC?

 >    While Nagasaki and Hiroshima had no military bases they were
 > manufacturing areas.  To help end any war knock out the places the bombs,
 > etc were
 > made.

Fair play.

 >   The US also gave warnings of the attacks with Japan ignored.  They still
 > ignored the warnings after Nagasaki, believing the A Bomb was just  a bigger
 > bomb and we had only one.  When the second hit they started to change their
 > minds.

'twas Hiroshima first (the A-Bomb; the H-bomb was 3 days later on Nagasaki) &
the Japanese, naturally, expected a normal military response; their main
military forces were close enough to respond to a naval+air attack, & so they
weren't really expecting a lone plane to unleash such hell.

The 2nd attack came while they were still gathering data on the first.

I get it; once the decioson was made to employ nukes, the second was a done
deal (tested the A-bomb, but one needs to see what an H-bomb does to a civilian
target, too, to complete the reports.)

Overall it wass a sh*tty thing for all concerned.  At least one of the pilots
was completely psychologically messed up ever after.

Hoping we're done, as a species, with using such doomsday weapons. . .

 > > Japan was in the South Pacific separate from WW2.  It was all part of the
 > > oingoing Sino-Japanese wars that were of no defense concern to the West.

 >   Japan also threatened the West's supply of rubber for one thing.

How so? I've not heard that one -- most rubber is from South America --
Japanese were nowhere near the Atlantic side of South America, where most of
the ports that rubber is exported through are.

Maybe there was a secondary supply from Africa, but Italy(Mussolini & co.) was
the main stopper there.

Your friend,

<+]:{)}
Cyberpope, Bishop of ROM
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