Subj : Learned something new To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Thu Jul 25 2024 10:53:00 Hi Ky! KM> BARRY MARTIN wrote: originally to Ef... > Hi Ed! > > -> That's good! :) > > (One of our quote-back devices is not quite right; I added the hyphen to > your reply.) KM> Mine works fine, what's wrong with you? :) Um, I just needed a little dash of something?! Actually mine also worked properly: ended up Ed had quoted my entire message and the start of his reply was at the end but then got accidentally sent before he was done. > Dawned on me I think Ky meant 'stacks' when he typed 'heaps' in his > reply to me but not qute sure. Check both out. 'Stack' is an area of > memory; 'heap' is one or more areas of memory from which storage is > obtained on an as-needed basis and returned when no longer needed. > > So based on that it seems one should not run out of heaps as they are > dynamic whereas stacks are limited and always the same size no matter > the content. ...Seems like one could adjust the size of the stack, so > if made smaller could have more. ...Limitation of 100% of the RAM > still, but can make smaller partitions. KM> No, I mean heaps. They are dynamically sized, but the NUMBER is KM> limited. To my understanding they're used more for dynamically KM> changing stuff like whatever you might do on your desktop, while KM> stacks are more what the OS uses and once loaded the OS is fairly KM> static. Both have limits but because you're more likely to use KM> heaps as you open and use applications, they're more likely to KM> run out. As there is a limited number of heaps and apparently only 'stretch' so far (referring to the size). KM> Win 3.x, Win9x, and WinME could run five programs before they ran KM> dry. ....I'm trying to remember back that far; pretty sure I didn't use Windows ME, "Windows 98SE" sounds right, probably several forms fo Windows 3.x. I'm not recalling a "I'm not gonna open" but do recall sluggishness. KM> XP was supposed to fix that but all it really did was increase KM> the heap limit, a lot. It's still possible to run out, There are multiple ways t get around a problem! KM> if a KM> program is enough of a hog, or buggy enough. The only one I've KM> seen do it routinely is Nero, the CD/DVD burning utility. Have KM> enough instances open and it'll clog up the works (the problem KM> seems to be that each instance calls two instances of File KM> Explorer). And it's bad coding; Infra CD Recorder has no such KM> problem, far as I've seen. Now starting to realize a possible explanation as to why sometimes things worked and why at other times they didn't. KM> Some programs assume they have full use of ALL system resources, KM> and if there are a LOT, like we've had since XP, they don't KM> bother cleaning up after themselves. Probably why rebooting fixes a lot of our problems: start with a clean slate. KM> LibreOffice is an example of a Badly Coded Program. Instead of KM> opening tabs in the same interface for additional documents, it KM> opens a whole new instance of the entire program. Chrome does KM> this too, each is displayed as a tab but it is actually an entire KM> new instance of the whole program (or why it's such a memory KM> hog). This was done supposedly because then if one page crashes KM> it won't take down the entire application, but in reality it KM> makes no difference other than it sucks up RAM like a drunken KM> coder. So the sneaky way around those programming issues is follow the advice of installing as much RAM as possible. (A variation on the heap issue earlier.) As for LibreOffice supposed to be each tab an individual, I have had the issue of 'The House of Cards': one tab fails, they all close. Good news is they have a pretty good recovery so easy to get back to where one was. KM> For comparion, I have ten tabs open in RoughDraft, and it still KM> peaks at about 26k of RAM used. My solution was based on Microsoft's XP Heap Solution: throw in more RAM! KM> I don't know how linux handles whatever it calls stacks and heaps KM> (considering it's also written in C++ it can't be that KM> different), but I do know it has crap garbage collection and KM> tends to fill up RAM with junk. PCLOS is much better about this, KM> and will run 5-6 months before it needs a restart, but Fedora KM> used to need a restart once a week. Latest version is somewhat KM> better-mannered. For comparison, My computer dedicated to MythTV has run 8 or 9 months without a reboot. Would have been longer but needed to be rebooted to finish installing updates. KM> XP can run at least 3 years KM> without needing a restart. and if something is really kaka, can KM> be flushed by logging out and back in, without restarting the OS. KM> (If the power never went out and the hardware never failed, it KM> might run forever.) Between 'system requires a reboot to finish istallation of updates', power outages (UPSs last only so long), etc., I'd never get to a year. ....Shortest was a few hours: critter zapped the pole transformer in the back yard before I went to work; power crews replced line fuse. Come back from work, they're still there -- ??. Found out later they had been called back because a different critter didn't learn the lesson from the morning critter and ZAP! KM> Silver (XP64) has been up 9 months this time, and is none the KM> worse. I do need to take it outside and blow the dust out fairly KM> soon, tho. Maybe the dust is what's making it work!! ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Show me pharaoh who ate crackers in bed & I'll show you a crummy mummy. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .