Subj : USB port issue -follo To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Sat May 30 2020 11:30:00 Hi Ky! KM> HI! ("Can you hear me now"?!) > > KM> both. Clocking RAM where it belongs made WAY more difference, so > > KM> guess which I did. > > Ummm....! Set the RAM correctly! > KM> You win a banana! > Sometimes it pays to monkey around!! KM> Too much monkey business here Does that mean you're going bananas?! > KM> I believe I have now done so. Will come from rez at doomgold dot > KM> com. (Stable address since I own the domain.) And how did you > KM> know tomorrow is my birthday? :D (Well, today by when you read > KM> this!) > Yeah, and you're still a year younger than I am! So um, yeah, the RAM KM> I should have more respect! Just play the Aretha Franklin song a few more times.... > will be your birthday present! Just a little late because of, um... > ah... you didn't tell me what you wanted until the last minute!! KM> I didn't know I was getting older til the last minute It's that last minute you have to worry about: then you stop getting older! > Did receive the e-mail and your address; will probably send out Thursday > when I go grocery shopping. Will let you know for certain. KM> Soon enough! I'll put off eating the birthday cake too. Actually KM> I won't have a choice, cuz I didn't make one. :D Maybe your doigs will come up with something for you! > > Yuuhhhhhp: I've been semi-sorta on the lookout for a good Intel-based > > motherboard and CPU based on all this; what you just said pretty much > KM> So what exactly are you looking for? > That's part of the problem: I don't know! And I sort of combine 'CPU' > with "Motherboard" as know they have to be compatible though can be KM> Yeah, with the million options it's nice to know up front they KM> work together. Seemed like more to me -- maybe I lost track and recounted some or broke a category down and counted the differences inside. I sort of buy by exclusion: don't want integrated video, if there are slots for 32 GB of RAM probably better than 'just' 16 (I might choose to install just 16 GB but having the option seems to indicate better design), etc..... > bought separately. Fast -- I do not like waiting for the CPU to scratch > it's head. This system boots via a SSD and the data is on a HDD. KM> That's how I decided to do things too -- boot and programs on the KM> SSD, data on spinning rust. And decided to add the cheapest NVMe KM> (on a PCIe adapter card, cuz no support on the motherboard) I KM> could lay hands on for email and swapfile and VM images, because KM> those are the really big files that I'm tired of waiting for. The current AMD (oh yeah: did you read where Linus Torvalds' latest computer is AMD!) seems to load sufficiently fast for those: I sometimes wait for the DSL to catch up when someone sends a video clip attachment. The only VM I consistently use is the one for Windows XP and it seems almost all of the wait time is in the Windows portion. > Current CPU is a (AMD) FX-8320 -- eight cores, I think 3.2 GHz though > couldn't find the speed quickly. Not sure if I really need 8 cores. KM> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8320+Eight-Core&id KM> =1782 (Do I really want to know?!) ...Huh: I'm towards the bottom of the list! Of cours,e the CPU is a few years old and they're probbaly comparing it to newer ones. I'll have to look around the site more later -- the System area looked potentially interesting though didn't spend enough time there ==> used the Virtual Windows XP Firefox (ESR) which is a bit sluggish due to the 32 bit VM. KM> Faster than a quad-core, but only a bit over half as fast as a KM> low-end i7. So... for faster, but not too pricey, you probably KM> want something in a late-generation i7. Something like: Will check out later - thanks for the leads! KM> My i7 CPUs are only 3rd and 4th generation, so a bit 'slow' KM> compared to current, but they are 5-6 years old, too... old KM> enough that all but Silver's are corporate discards. Silver's KM> "new" CPU+board came from eBay for $200, and only that much KM> because in its day it was a fairly high-end motherboard, and this KM> model is still in some demand due to also supporting Xeon CPUs KM> and server RAM. For my Computer Room systems (so excluding Frontend computers primarily for MythTV) I try to purchase something with a high speed and the ability to be expanded. LIS, I'm not one for waiting (yes, a bit impatient when I know I don't need to be waiting). Also know I don't build new too often so go for something towards top of the line (relatively), update with daughtercards as required, and let it wear out. KM> Main reason I have Silver and Fireball rather than just using the KM> Dells is that said Dells (3 alike) are the small cases, with zero KM> room for a 2nd HD, so while they're fine for secondary, not so KM> good for everyday. All about the same speed, tho. I've sort of ignored Dells as for my use they seem to have limitiations/ restrictions. SFF of any brand pretty much get excluded: limits the video card options. (Dells seem to be a good computer, just for what I need here not a good fit.) > USB 3; not sure if need 3.1 but expansion slots are good. "Plenty" of > USB 2 and USB 3 ports (front panel too!, or at least the option -- have > an expansion panel card). KM> It's nice to have a few onboard but external hubs kinda negate KM> the need for dozens stuck to the board. True: keyboard - 1, mouse - 2, UPS - 3, external hub - 4 -- so at least 4 USB 2's and 1 USB 3. That's rear panel ports; front panel at least one each for convenience --I've pretty much always stuck the thumbdrive into the front panel rather than the hub - guess just used to doing it that way, plus right now the hub is in the computer desk hutch on the left side and not nearly as convenient as swivelling the chair. > Gigabit LAN. KM> Even my 10 year old boards have this! but a couple of the onboard KM> NICs have died, and been replaced by a $10 gigabit card. Yes, not a rarity, just have seen some systems offered at 10/100. Figure if they're cheating there they're cheating other places. > Video -- separate card is fine though if a decent onboard one; HDMI over > DVI because of the monitor (can use an adapter). Audio I'm connecting > to the audio out as goes into the amp and bookshelf speakers. Could use > an extractor. KM> Whether you get onboard video depends on the chipset and CPU KM> (frex, the one in Silver does not support onboard). Everything KM> except maybe some server boards have onboard audio now. Most of the systems I've glanced at do have on-board video with decent specs. Just something to verify, like the Gigabit Ethernet port. KM> I use whatever cheap random video card has both DVI and VGA, and KM> is fanless, cuz I got tired of those dinky little fans whining KM> and dying. Onboard video is usually good enough now that if it's KM> present, I don't bother with anything else. (Except for the older KM> Dell quadcore ... for some stupid reason only allows 8mb RAM for KM> onboard video, which is no longer enough.) I think 8 MB barely does VGA! Yes, fanless seems the way to go. Besides quiter just one less thing to go wrong. Make sure the case circulation is sufficient, of course. > Also probably/eventually a second monitor so if integrated video that > little detail. KM> I keep meaning to do this, and never have. *sigh* I have and haven't (!). The problem here is the desk has a hutch which is removeable but then there goes shelf space. The monitor is in the monitor cubbyhole -- originally designed for a CRT but fortunately nice an wide (maybe for speakers though holes for speaker wires on the side shelves), and I have the monitor shoved in most of the way -- the second monitor was either at the left or right at a close to 45ø neck swivel, plus almost a foot closer visually. The extra visual space was nice, just not quite working out physically. I do have the old LCD monitor mounted to the wall above the right side of the desk. It gets used mostly for setting up Raspberry Pis, while working on other computers at the 'workbench' area (wireless keyboard and mouse), etc. > I like free expansion ports, mainly for the option when upgrading -- so > if a PCIe16 is used for the video card a 'spare' PCIe16 is a plus. KM> Yeah, even if they don't all support 16x, it's nice to have the KM> extra slots, as you can use 'em for an m.2 adapter card, an SAS KM> adapter card, or various other add-ons. Also, having only one is KM> usually a sign of corner cutting. Better boards usually have KM> three, tho only two may be 16x. Also nice to still have that PCI KM> slot for older stuff. Right. A sparcity of expansion slots can be another indicator of taking short-cuts. ....Took a bit of a break to refill the coffee and remembered why I sort of excluded Dells from my searches years ago: couldn't find the specs. Well, found rather generic ones but along the lines of "PSU 250 W to 1000W, depending on the model", "video out HDMI, DVI, DP or something else depending on the model".... OK, not nearly that bad! > So anything in the $79.99 and under bin?! KM> You can pick up a Dell Optiplex 9xxx for little or nothing, as a KM> complete system. Perfectly good if you only need one HD (or two KM> 2.5" with an adapter). I have three cuz my sister's office threw KM> 'em out. Probably the single most common corporate system ... and KM> discard. Yes, seems a lot of businesses use Dells because they can be inexpensively customized. They seem to be very good machines, just for my particular after-market type needs...... KM> One of 'em runs Win7, another PCLinuxOS, the third has variously KM> been a Hackintosh (everything worked out of the box, except for KM> network, and I didn't even bother installing drivers) and a KM> couple variants of Win10 and Server2008. As I recall you hvre more of a business support requirement so the specific-OS per machine makes sense. I just do the heavy-duty hobbbyist stuff. KM> Oh, did I mention how Win10 got on my permanent bad list? was KM> using a portable install for benchmarking (see above) and after I KM> went back to the regular OS, discovered that Win10 had NUKED the KM> partition table on the USB-connected HD. Win10 will never, ever KM> again be allowed to touch a production machine. (Fortunately all KM> the data was backed up, or rather had been randomly copied to KM> other locations already because that HD is older than dirt, but KM> it's still annoying.) And I think "annoying" may have been a severe understatement! IMO no reason for any OS to automatically assume to do something without permission. One thing to upgrade definitions for security, but never- ever do something to the rest of the hard drive much less an attached device without my specific approval > Unfortunately appears I learned the hard way too. AMD isn't bad, just > isn't quite fitting with my needs/usage. KM> Well, let's just say with AMD you get what you pay for. True for anything. Wasn't so much low cost as the motherboard was touted to be very good and as it used AMD that's what it got. ....Actually was a 'kit': MB + CPU + RAM + maybe some other stuff - has been ages. > KM> Well, they DO support cheaper type RAM, but you can't use it with > KM> anything else! > Maybe there's a reason for that?! KM> Support for single-sided RAM. Dunno why, other than possibly KM> still using some very old code, and more likely because KM> single-sided can do better on raw benchmarks. However word around KM> is that even AMDs get better realworld performance with KM> double-sided RAM. I haven't really paid attention other than matched pairs. ...Hmmm: wonder if that was the problem with a old Lenovo system I have? It can take 8 GB (4x 2GB) but I could only install 6GB. Refused to boot with 8GB (2+2+2+2), was happy with 6 (2+2+1+1). Both of the 2GB pairs were fine alone (so 4 GB). I don't recall the specifics on the RAM -- originally came with 3 1GB; ordered probably Crucial for the 4 2GB sticks so should have worked. > KM> lose anything? I've been dragging around the same Utilities > KM> directory for a dozen systems now; there are probably still DOS > KM> utils from the 1980s in there... > The "loose something" is the vague concept of differences between the > AMD version and the Intel version. Of course the to me slightly sloppy > and confusing use of "amd64" and "i386" terms: really is 64 bit and 32 > bit respectively, but a newbie would probably think "AMD" and "Intel". KM> Oh. No, it's not AMD vs Intel, nor 32bit vs 64bit CPU. However, KM> as to whether it'll run those utils... it's not the CPU, it's the KM> OS. 64bit OS generally will not run 16bit, but will run 32bit. KM> This is why I have WinXP in a VM on the Win7-64 box (and the KM> PCLOS box) -- so I can run a couple of irreplaceable 16bit DOS KM> apps. Right: sort of using the same words to describe different things. ... KM> And I don't know what idiot decided they should be called "AMD64" KM> and "x86". Someone who liked confusing newbs, I guess! As you said, can be rather confusing: "but this one has an 'i' and my system is 'Intel' and this one says 'amd' which matches "AMD", but...". Someone must have been having a mean day when naming! > > indicate the port is connected: the USB 2 scanner is blue, the USB 3 > > external HDD is blue, the dead metal thumbdrive I'm using as a ground > KM> WTF?? > Can you say 'idiot lights'? I thought you could! KM> I did not know that idiots blinked. We even -- um, they even get dry eyes! > > mentioned about a concern of moving the pipes holding the cooling liquid > > too much and cracking, thus leaking. (Was he talking about the same KM> Uh?? water-cooled system? cuz ordinary "heat pipes" contain KM> powdered metal (as I understand it). > Yes, I sort of miss the Super XT just because it so upgraded. The > original Laser (brand of computer) motherboard could do a lot more than > the original CPU, hard drive, etc. allowed. KM> Yeah, I'm sorry I gave away my own Super XT -- had every upgrade KM> you can think of except for an IDE HD, and that coulda been done KM> (somewhere I have an 8bit IDE card, and an IDE HD that needs Very KM> Old to work). It even had VGA! Yup: mine's downstairs in the basement -- not necessarily the best place for storage -- as I couldn't bare to get rid of it at the time. Don't recall what's in it hardware-wise currently. Do recall some was moved to the 486DX2/66 system. > The system I'm on now is an Asus M5A97 R2.0 motherboard with an AMD KM> That's basically the older cousin of Silver's "new" board: KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/ > FX-8320 cpu running at -- umm - fast. 3.1 or 3.2 GHz comes to mind but KM> Passmark says 3.5GHz with 4.0GHz turbo. So probably 3.5 GHz. lscpu says max MHz is 3500.0000 MHz, min 1400.000; I know I don't 'do' coverclocking just because it makes more sense to have the right item in the first place, and running at maximum doesn't allow for more. Seems 'Settings > Details > About' used to give the speed but doesn't now. > not sure off-hand. 32 GB of RAM but never seen it get above 8 -- sort > of thinking in a new system I probably would go with the option of 32 > again but just install 16 - so maybe take half out of this one for it to > use and the new system would have the other half. KM> Yeah, depends what you're doing. The nice thing about lots of RAM KM> is being able to give a VM enough for good performance, without KM> choking the host OS to death. Right. I know originally I had to give the Windows XP VM more RAM as it was very sluggish. Don't recall the numbers but increasing what was available to the Virtual Machine helped and didn't subtract from the real machine. > The SSD is I think 120 GB. The original plan was to split the card in > Hard drive is 3 TB -- waaaay too much but better than running out! At KM> I won't run out for a while, since the Giant Server came with KM> eight 3TB SAS drives. Fireball supports SAS onboard, and I have KM> an SAS card so won't even need to cannibalize the server for its KM> card to use 'em. And of course junk fills the space allotted. It is not 'junk' as long as it has potential for use! The NSA downstairs (in the basement) has 5 TB of storage (started with 2, added a 3 TB -- should have upgraded the original for a total of 6 but...). > this point still a little uncomfortable with the solid state drives, > though not enough to not use as a boot device ==> if fails can boot from > a DVD or thumbdrive. OTOH is the data drive fails one is an outta-luck- > duck and has the fun of recovering from condensed-format files from the > backup NAS in the basement. KM> Ugh! Really. If/when that heppens will be glad for the backup under any format -- just will take a while to recover. ...Better to be able to recover than not! > OK, so that's that system. There's the MythTV backend system, the > various systems downstairs...... KM> I understand this problem. Glad someone does! KM> If linux would be more graceful about networking, instead of only KM> letting me read/write apparently at random... I'd probably put it KM> on Fireball. As it is... I finally gave up, and when PCLOS needs KM> something off the network, I fire up the WinXP VM, which has no KM> problem whatever with reading and writing to any other system. It seems Ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04 (haven't played with 20.04 yet) tend to be 'protective' of themselves and to some degree the networked computers. Accessing remote systems on the LAN requires the username and password so I've used 'sshpass' for some of the scripting and mounting others' media. ...Not really an answer to what you need but maybe an idea of what's needed. > Part of the need for the thumbdrive recovery utilties was I had purchased > several 'blue' 16 GB thumbdrives from an on-line company with which I've > had good experiencs, name-brand thumbdrives. Bought the blue version > because liked the colour. Some time later similar offer, decide to go > with the gold version -- no reason other than quick distinguishing: I > have on the blue one and on the yellow. The yellow ones > though spec'd the same as the original blue ones are junk -- most failed > quickly. I would have returned/RMA'd except would have cost what I paid > for to ship back -- how come they can ship to me in an envelope packet > and I have to use a box? So that brand has been blackballed by me. KM> Let me guess, those AData drives for which I found all the bad KM> reviews. Gee you're good!! > KM> Was astonished to see XP64 immediately phone home and download > KM> 1.5GB worth of updates!! > Uh, yeah! Especially as 'no longer supported'! KM> That's what I thought!! Server OS, sort of, tho... Yes, briefly thought of that possibility as to why. There are 'tons' of different versions. My original XP had "Windows Media Edition", I don't think the Virtual Machine liked it because it was 64-bit (I think) and for some reason could only create a 32-bit Virtual Machine, yet there seems to be a 64-bit option. Got it to be happy and work -- good enough for what I need! > I've got a motherboard or two with similar indications. To me fine as > helpful. The first motherboard I had with the "hey! I may not be on but > the power cord is stil plugged in" LED I thought was a good idea. KM> Yeah, the RAM-is-HOT LED is a very good idea. Agree! Easy enough to forget the system is still plugged in and so powered even though the fans are off. > > As for the LEDs on the RAM, not sure what they would indicate other than > > "bein' purdy". I'm running 6.1 GB usage right now -- and that usage ine > > is usually White Sands Proving Grounds flat -- boooooorrrrrinnnnng! > KM> Purdy apparently is it. How the heck are you using 6.1GB RAM?? > > "Easily" as now at 6.8. > LibreOffice 355 MB (6 or 7 open documents) KM> I am supposed to be fixing the document LibreOffice munged... KM> turns out when it manages to run CPU up to 100%, it also garbages KM> up the document ON DISK EVEN IF YOU DON'T SAVE. What did you do??!! I've got eight open LibreOffice documents currently open (don't ask why! ), the CPU cores running under 30% (most in the single digits -- they keep swapping around); do have 'mysterious pulses' of activity, some coordinate with the BBS screensaver in the Virtual Machine. I have mananged to lock up this machine (the Linux one) and LibreOffice on rebooting will ask if I want to recover the documents which were open -- yes, and does. There have been times when the document is no longer there -- open a PPS from an e-mail -- and I get an error but the rest open fine. I don't recall a document being corrupted. > I don't mind spending money when necessary, but usually the brand-new > stuff is "overpriced" and the price comes down shortly. Also the new > technology is unproven, so has several links to work out. Also KM> Yeah, let someone else shed the blood! I don't like bleeding green! > generally noot too much works with the new technology -- as the tagline > says, "Who did the owner of the first modem talk to?". KM> LOL! I'll admit to being scorched a few times: recalling a misunderstood or didn't quite understand USB 3.1 so got a front panel unit and the connector didn't fit (saw that as soon as removed from the box). > > You've seen the picture on the Internet of someone using a box fan to > > cool their computer! (Open case.) > KM> No, but that's how I repaired a friend's Mac... only needed a new > KM> PSU fan... PSU was *riveted* inside the case. Let's just let it > KM> hang open instead... > Well the good news is it probably won't loosen during shipping!! KM> Haha, or any other time... minor problem? Buy whole new monkey! > Many-many-MANY moons ago the store had a vendor for the iMacs -- the > ones that came in bright colours (blue, orange, lime green) and were > all-in-one: CRT + motherboard + power supply + whatever else in the > somewhat egg-shaped case. Vendor ran his own shop and also repaired the KM> I have personally seen one of those catch fire (well, start KM> putting out copious smoke, tho it was unplugged before flames KM> erupted) just from overheating as it admired its navel. To me it would seem encasing anything heat-producing would not be a good idea. > IBM compatibles -- we discussed as I was interested in learning more so > I could sell them better, plus maybe getting one. Decent units, just > not a good fit for me as I liked to be able to go inside to upgrade and > do my own repairs -- IIRC the PSU was encased in epoxy, no way to > upgrade except through the USB ports, etc. KM> Apple makes walled-garden stuff, that's the whole idea. I must be a Burger King kind of guy: make it my way! > > > > Why it's so dark out?! > > > KM> The light all prismed away! > > > I'll have to reflect on that! > > KM> I don't see anything. Is it dark? > > Do you have your eyelids open? Ah! your hands are in front of your eyes! > KM> How can I tell? It's dark! > Ah! I forgot you're not where one is surrounded by the glow of the city > lights! Here it's like living with a giant night light! KM> Heh.. I'm just across the river from the refinery. I have KM> full-time big glowies! Upriver a few miles is the Cordova (IL) nuclear plant, downriver about a mile is the Rock Island Aresenal. If something happens I'll be blown up one way or another!! (Hmm: my editor is telling me 549 lines of text. Suppose should split some time before hitting a thousand! ¯ ® ¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ® ¯ @Q.COM ® ¯ ® .... 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