Subj : Re: USB lock up - poo! Fo To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Thu Feb 24 2022 14:33:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > > > > Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning. > > > KM> You followin' me? :D > > > Out of morbid curiosity! > > KM> I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your > > KM> money's worth. > > We talking human or animal? > KM> Bugs. > Computer or insect?! Uh, I can't tell, they're squished flat. Should I have 3D printed 'em?? > > The FX-8320 here likes to run about ten degree warmer but that could be > > due to a lot of other factors like rated 125 W for starters. Nowhere > > near the thermal cut-off point. > KM> Which is generally 80C for older CPUs, 100C for more-modern CPUs. > Still seems 'funny' to have a CPU running up to the boiling point of > water! ...Remember the old job about using the CD tray as a cup holder? > Too bad can't run the CPU heat out and use to keep our coffee/tea warm! LOL yeah... tho I knew someone who had a K6-2 era AMD and used it to heat their garage! > Yup: that's the way my tower fan attached: line up Part I, then line up > Part 2 by fiddling with the bracket to fit into the mounting holes of > Part 1. ...Actually not too bad, though I found it easier to see what > was supposed to be done from a YouTube video as opposed to the printed > instructions. Some are easier than others. I have an old Zalman that I never did figure out how to mount (not that it was likely a good idea anyway, being very topheavy). But the complicated-looking tower with the complicated instructions just sat in place and fit instantly. > Covering up hot stuff is generally a good idea, though if using that > cooling fan to try to cool other stuff maybe not such a good idea. The > shroud I had housing the dust buffalos apparently was there to help > direct the hot air towards the rear panel. Actually, it was a barn. > KM> Yeah, and now two types of core, one for performance, one for > KM> slow. > > Yes: took me a while to figure that one out: "12 core (8p, 4e)". OK, > eight an' four iz twelve, but the 'p' and 'e' didn't have a meaning for > a while. Did finally see spelt out or otherwise defined: performance > and efficiency. ...Then there are the ones that have a sharing... Good > Grief!! That when I fling up my hands and go "Fine, just so long as it's faster than what I had." > KM> Yeah, mine get parts kicked downhill as available too. Then find > KM> some job and take a long time to finally retire to the Closet. > > I finally did some sorting out of Parts I'll Probably Never Use. An AGP > video card went in that box! Not sure if even worth attempting to list > on eBay. Some time back had randomly checked prices of stuff in that > box - almost more bother than worth, plus how long have those listings > been up? Older parts are in some demand for retro gaming, and AGP are ideal for the very desirable 440BX chipset. Given the state of things, I certainly wouldn't trash any that still work, and if someone does need one... they ain't makin' any more of 'em. And what don't work... the gold fingers are worth around $15/pound, last I looked. > > The computers being rolled down a level probably will get a bit of an > > upgrade in the process: just adding a SSD for the OS partition really > > speeds up otherwise slow computers! > KM> Yeah, it does wonders for that. Six times the data flow. > > Definitely a faster boot; didn't notice any performance change as far as > MythTV was concerned. The old/slow computers are pretty much designed That's because once the system is fast enough to decode the video, bus speed is the limiting factor -- BUT even old slow IDE more than suffices for the speed that data is read for video playback, at least til you get into many-GB files and very high definition. The average 4GB HD movie file is no problem. > to be used as MythTV Frontends only, though have the capability of a > full Ubuntu system. Not going to be writing letters in the Ironing > Room. Might look up something on the Web. Watch a show while doing > laundry? Sure! You have an Ironing Room??!!! that's even more retro than my Closet! (I own an iron. It has never been out of the box. I don't know where it is.) > KM> Woah... used to have a couple of vintage fans like that, but got > KM> lost in the Great Northward Migration. High power, noisy, but > KM> dang could they move the air. > Yup! Here now just used for pink noise while sleeping. You can download every sort of color-noise nowadays, and just run it through an MP3 player. Advantage being you can tune it for pitch and volume a lot easier than a real fan. Downside is it lacks the motor harmonics. > I haven't either. More "bigger tends to be quieter". When purchasing > is more "that's a decent price" along with brand, type of sleeve/bearing > thing, and dB. Sleeve bearing: where's the owl? :) > > KM> So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each . > > Probably not!! I've saved some money buy buying more (multi-packs). > KM> Next time you see a good deal, let me know! > Will do! ...Wanna share that 161 minimum order?! anyone else is reading through this> Sure! I can use a couple dozen. > > Having an extra 120mm fan on hand is good: you're almost certainly going > > to use it, plus have it now vs waiting to be shipped, plus possibly save > > on shipping. > KM> Yeah. I have some salvaged from power supplies, but would have to > KM> rewire 'em. > I've got some power supplies needing to have the replaced -- mostly the > 80 mm fan but maybe a 120. Generally the failed PSUs have also been > smaller output power so almost better to replace the power supply with > one of higher wattage. I've replaced PSU fans often enough, but there I don't bother with the wiring or plugs (they're often weird or hardwired), I just use a fan with a molex, run the wires out the back along with the other wires, and plug it into one of the loose power connectors. It looks like mobius PSU, but works fine. Reverse, tho, cannibalized PSU fans usually don't have the right plug for anything, or no plug at all, but no worries, if the PSU is dead I don't feel bad cutting off a molex and wiring it to the fan. > > issues, improper air flow, etc. The good news is the open side is > KM> I've found the airflow thing is mostly a myth. They talk a good > KM> line but when temperature is much lower with MY airflow than with > KM> THEIR airflow, and I see that over and over... well, I stopped > KM> worrying about it. > > Pretty much good enough for me! I can sort of visualize having a > contained box could cause better air flow as 'force' the air to come in > form this point and be direct out that point. OTOH also seems there That's the theory, but in practice I find it doesn't work for bleep. Same with the shrouds on some vidcards -- yeah, it directs the air around the heatsink, but it also prevents heat from escaping the area. The ones I've checked have all run cooler minus the shroud. > could be a quiet pool of air at the bottom. One computer with a tall Which doesn't matter, because there's nothing at the bottom that cares about heat; in fact it's usually just empty space. > tower case may or may not have had that problem: video card was at the > bottom, PSU and fan at the top. I don't recall where the front panel > venting was. Anyway, for some reason I started getting concerned about It's generally at the bottom, but usually is so small it's worthless. I recall one of our old ILinkers mentioned he'd stick a screwdriver in there and crank it bigger, and since it was hidden no one could see that the hole was now big enough to notice. But much better to take off the unusued slot covers, and any unused drive bay covers. I find that no matter how the cooling is set up, there's ALWAYS hot air coming out the resulting top vent. > a potential lack of/reduction of air flow in the bottom, or at least for > the video card and whatever other cards were down there. Had a fan with The video card should not be at the bottom anyway. It should be in the slot nearest the CPU, and on some PCIe boards that is the only slot that's full speed. Other cards generally don't get hot enough to be a problem. NVMes run relatively hot, and even tho mine are on adapter cards (one next to the vidcard, one in bottom slot, cuz that's where the 16x slots are) even if you stick your hand in there you can't feel any hot spot. Ambient air suffices, and I'd guess since they're not up against the mainboard, does more to cool 'em than would a heatsink. > a broken mount, Velcroed it to the bottom of the case to blow up. (Was > he kind of fan with intake from the side.) Yeah, I've attached fans however the hell like that. Wedgie has one hanging from one screw off to the side of the HD cage, cuz the HD needed extra cooling (MFM campstove) and that was the one spot where I could secure it with anything. Gremlin has one hanging off the back of the case with three screws, a rubber shim, and a twisty-tie, cuz that's where it fit. Gremlin has a very early ATX case, mainboard that was designed for AT but swings both ways, and who the hell designed this case anyway?? Some minor surgery with tin snips later, it was a perfect fit. Just don't look too close. :) > KM> So I ditched their stupid shroud, replaced the thoroughly useless > KM> fanless heatsink with a proper if generic heatsink-with-fan, > KM> added an intake fan, and its CPU temperature dropped 40F degrees. > KM> Yes, FORTY DEGREES. > > KM> And it never crashed again (at least not until the capacitors > KM> failed). > > Take that designers! I'm sort of the opinion there are times when the > college-degreed designers know more than I do, but I'm also of the > opinion there are times when they're stuck because that's the way they > learned it. Your fan substitution is on example. (And besides, someone > has to invent or discover stuff -- may as well be me!) Yeah, all I could figure is that they never compared it to standard setups, only to Dell-with-NO-cooling setups. 250 degrees with no cooling, 170 degrees with our fancy cooling, fantastic progress!! ...standard cooling like every clone PC in the world, 130 degrees... > > KM> Same with leaving the side panels off. Then you don't need to > KM> worry about evacuating the hot air; it leaves all by itself. > KM> Same reason I like to have a top vent, to let it escape. > > Heat rises! Yep, in fact top vent makes for pretty good passive circulation all by itself. There's a pretty good warm breeze coming out of Moonbase. > KM> I'd leave the open side a fingerwidth away from the side of the > KM> cabinet, to let more hot air escape. > > That's pretty much what I'm doing with "BE4" here (the 4th version of > the MythTV Backend). Plus some of the spacing is because that's the > width of the side panel cover I'm storing next to unit so it doesn't get > lost. Sounds like standard procedure to me. > KM> Well, given it's where you can't stick your foot into it, I'd > KM> just leave enough room for circulation and not worry about it. > OK; probably was going to end up that way anyway. Poor Argo ran laying on a table for about a year before I got around to putting it IN a case at all!! I would like to have one of the workbench doohickeys like Phil's Computer Lab uses for his temporary builds; looks quite convenient. But when I looked, were expensive! > > KM> Bullet ran with both sides off for years; only reason they're on > KM> now is cuz it's not running due to Rearranging Of Hardware. > KM> Bullet's southbridge likes to run at 220F, so the less between it > KM> and the open air, the better. > > I might figure a way to blow air across it. Attach an old CPU fan > (~40mm -- whatever the sizing is - going by memory) to an L-bracket > attached to the drive bay case or some place sturdy/convenient. Yeah, Bullet's side panel fan was hooked up and blowing across stuff, even tho the panel was not attached. "Why is there a washcloth over the top of that loose side panel?" To stop vibration where it leans against the desk. > > KM> Got a copper heatsink for that but so far have not quite figured > KM> out how to make it fit... might need a different one. > > My fan idea might be easier than metalworking! Beat ya to it þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .