Subj : GIMP Up To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Sun Sep 07 2025 07:48:00 Hi Ky! > KM> there are still functions with no x64 replacement, and as someone > KM> pointed out, every time you drop support for the older stuff, you > KM> lose that subset of programming skills, and the "new" stuff > KM> becomes that much buggier. > Right: I have a few old applications that fall in that category. The > good news I can run them on a VM but that has some other inconveniences. KM> Yeah. I still miss LIST. 16bit DOS program, and no real KM> replacement. (ZBList, which runs on x64 Windows, is not quite KM> right.) I'm getting a faint bell on LIST -- seems I also used it in the olde dayz. There are a few others I like which no longer exist. On the surface seems like they should run -- actually run faster because is on a super-fast system compared to the what was available to the programme back then, but then those pesky details show up! > Tangenting to the Raspberry Pi, apparently a lot of businesses use it, > and a lot are still using the old-old ones and cannot upgrade, sometimes > the new processor isn't compatible, a lot of times physical constraints: > positioning of the ports have moved in newer models and the original > wiring harness cannot be altered to accomodate. KM> There's a lot of that out there. Consumer devices are a drop in KM> the bucket. The vast majority of the specialty and scientific KM> cards (which go for 5 to 6 figures and may not have an available KM> replacement) are 32bit or even 16bit. That's why there are still KM> specialty motherboard being made with 16bit (ISA) slots. Which KM> are also in demand among retro gamers, for their support of ISA KM> Sound Blaster cards. I sort of think of us consumers as a testing ground. Will the new work in real-life conditions? As for business, scientific, and that level, if they don't have the 'brains' support (motherboard, operating system, programme) for their multi-thousand, multi-million gizmo their whole business could come to a halt. And as you indicated near the top with LIST, it's not so easy to substitute. KM> I bought one a while back, to replace the one in Moonbase, which KM> at age 22 finally succumbed to aging capacitors. For my $170 I KM> expected to get a used board designed and built in 2005. I KM> received a brand new, recently-made, $480 board! That was a good deal!! > As you indicated sometimes easier said than done! ...A few days ago I > was trying to find where the storage location is set: couldn't find it > in the on-line manual (which is extensive), couldn't find it wandering > around the screen, eventually found a lead on Google but was outdated, > Started looking in the config files: I knew where the default storage > was located so tried to find that and work backwards. Nope. KM> I hate when things are stashed gods-know-where like that. It's KM> why I use portable versions or portabilize everything I can. I gave up and used link: ln -s. Sort of wanted to to it right as something else to remember: it says it goes here but really goes there. Used the symbolic link when I replaced the aging hard drive on my MythTV Backend: was a lot easier to redirect everything than to re-find all the options in the various configurations files. > KM> Yeah, VM is more reliable as a long-term solution, but if it's a > KM> low resources PC you may not have that option. My Win11 netbook > KM> will run VirtualBox, but VBox on that low-resources netbook > KM> cannot run WinXP -- the most "hungry" VM it can run is Win2K > KM> (which can scrape by on very scant resources), with whatever > KM> limitations Win2K brings with it. (I just use it to get a > KM> non-glare-white screen in my little editor that maxes out at 32k > KM> of RAM, so it's fine, but there's no way the VM would run even an > KM> old GIMP.) > Well I was thinking more of running the VM on a capable machine, not one KM> As one hopes to do, but not all who boot have more brain than a KM> rock.... There are times I've appeared to be in that category, usually because of interpreting something literally or not having the background to know the implied step. > barely scraping by, but yes, that low-resource issue is going to be a > problem. Heck, this computer (the one I'm on currently) is fairly > powerful, and yet when I ran the VM from the hard drive it was > annoyingly sluggish. Moved to the NVMe -- scoots right along. KM> Main problem is many VM images are HUGE (my Win81. image is KM> 24GB). So the faster the read, the better the performance. Silver KM> has an NVMe dedicated to swap, temp, browser cache, and VMs. All KM> stuff that benefits from raw speed. I'm not going to look around for the VM images here but as I recall they were surprisingly large. ...Fast system, fast hard drive, would think it wouldn't be sluggish -- the file is still HUGE. > KM> So you find last year's Fatdog ISO, which would necessarily have > KM> last year's GIMP, and use that. In a VM, no one can hear you > KM> scr-- er, no one cares if you never update it. > Just don't update the VM! ...I wonder if antique VMs are still able to > run? KM> VMs are just glorified disk images. If the virtual machine host KM> can run the disk image, it will run. DOSBox is actually geared KM> toward running in a VM. The main thing you run into is whether KM> the VM image can run the Guest Additions (which necessarily KM> matches the version of VirtualBox), without which you don't have KM> interoperability with the host machine, proper mouse behavior, or KM> full gamut of screen resolutions. OK, yes. In one of my latest trials on a VM the USB feedthrough didn't appear to work. The USB device was seen, turned on, detected by the VM OS. I'm not sure if I had a config wrong someplace: I had enough information from that little test to continue on with my main project. ....Do need to look as to why the incomplete detection but that VM will be replaced in a little while. (It's mainly used for testing and so a lot of junk.) > KM> Or you just find last year's GIMP, and install it in your mini VM > KM> of Puppy or whatever small distro, and never update the VM. Not > KM> so difficult. > True -- though I have a question and it might be just because the coffee > hasn't kicked in. Here I have several Virtual Machines (VMs) running > under VirtualBox (VB). One of the VMs is running XP. KM> I have a slew of 'em that were experimented on and never KM> deleted.... some work better than others. KM> The newest version of VirtualBox that will run on XP64 is KM> 4.something. It runs XP, Win2K, Win8.1, and ReactOS, and those KM> are all well-behaved. (It will not run Win10 or later.) Various KM> sorts of linux are all ill-mannered to some degree; frex Mint KM> gripes about video settings, but won't run with the ones it KM> wants, and ignores the Guest Additions. PCLinuxOS is just fine so KM> long as I never eject the "install media"; if I do, it gripes "No KM> boot device" (despite that it was installed to the virtual disk). KM> Technically, I could install VBox 6.something on the Win8.1 VM, KM> then use it to run Win10 or 11 !!! However, only crazy people KM> use VBox to peer into the future. More typically we use it to KM> explore the past. True: I have a couple of XP VMs -- one work and the other as a back up. Several Ubuntu 22.04's on which I try out and test for stuff I may want to install this main 22.04 machine. (SeaMonkey got tested on a VM -- probably confused Lee as to why I was starting from scratch all the time!) KM> I've never gotten a Mac VM to run, not even one of the prebuilts KM> floating around out there. I've never had the need to try. > VB gets updated every so often, which I would presume also updates the > VM. Maybe not because of backwards compatabilty. Let's assume that KM> No, the VM is its own thing. VirtualBox does not update the VM KM> image. It may update whatever it uses as an init file to find the KM> VM and get it running, I dunno. But not the VM itself. OK - I think at the time I meant that but typed it backwards. The Virtual Machine is like a video (.mov, .avi) which is unaltered but needs something to play it (the VM). We can update the equipment for playing (VirtualBox) but we don't change the VM ('video' in this example.) > (I need a coffee refill after that one!) KM> My brain hurts, and you want to pour coffee on it??! Say 'aaaahhh'! ...Friend in college constantly had coffee -- and this is in the 70's so waaaaay before Stabucks and the like were around. His wife was an RN and we joked she should hook up an IV to create a non-stop drip! ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... How do you console an English teacher? 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