Subj : Graphics driver quest To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Wed Sep 17 2025 08:25:00 Hi Ky! > > (I know: overquoting!) > KM> That can be fixed! > KM> *RRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP* -- sound of rampaging delete key > Where'd the message go?! KM> Into the aether, that infinite garbage dump for deleted KM> characters! That explains that big 'BOOM!' I just heard! > KM> My guess is that's the right track, wrong culprit. Not exactly > KM> oldschool but using an old version of the GTK toolkit (the > KM> programming framework that produces the window decorations and > KM> such that the user sees onscreen), which responded less > KM> gracefully than its neighbors. On Gnome desktop, it's all pretty > KM> much GTK apps by default. (KDE desktop, Qt apps by default.) > Probably more accurate, especially after I 'found' the one arrow graphic > was also noisy. ..I wasn't intending to find the coding error but more > semi-playing to discover what was working and what was not -- sort of > training for future diagnostics. KM> When it's outdated toolkit, it's likely to affect just one app, KM> or parts of apps. Makes sense. LIS, at first look was just the 'overlay' Terminal/command line of this Virtual Machine and anything else putting something with Terminal on top of the main OS's screen. The main OS's Terminal was unaffected. > > *^ "Overlay" meaning using programmes like VirtualBox and Remmina to > > obtain another machine screen over my main one. > KM> Oh. Yeah, I don't know what you'd properly call that. But the > KM> making-it-happen would be before it got to the display server > KM> (what actually sends data to the screen). > Probably right. Not disagreeing, but I could see where a 'coding error' > in the video driver could be the problem. ...I didn't check to see what > drivers or other software were updated with the detection of the new > monitor: I'm not that ambitious! KM> When the driver or vidcard is messed up, it usually either KM> botches the whole screen, or at best you might have a clear KM> terminal but nothing else. It's not selective, like one arrow. KM> Now, if it's an OpenGL problem, then you might see goofs in games KM> or higher-end graphics editors. So as usual my issues are backwards from the norm! > KM> And that may not be the same depending if you're using Wayland or > KM> X11. You can check in whatever Ubuntu uses to spit up such info > KM> (in KDE it's InfoCenter). > KM> https://news.itsfoss.com/ubuntu-25-10-wayland-only/ > Wayland. Have switched it off to use X11 on some computers around here > because what they are running isn't happy with Wayland but on this > computer figured as that's the utility future versions of the OS will be > running then I need to get used to it. If something I need doesn't run > under Wayland then I either need to use a VM or the other machine. KM> Yeah, that's where it's at now. X11 had been essentially KM> abandoned for over a decade, and the underpinnings were an ugly KM> mess, being designed for the era of dumb terminals, and at best KM> shimmed and jury-rigged for modern OSs. All the X11 devs went off KM> to Wayland a long time ago (it's the same people, for the most KM> part). I never really paid attention to who was writing - no need to. LIS, my decision was more based on future 'ease': going to be easier to "go with the flow" and me to use Wayland than constantly set things back to X11" eventually nothing new would be using X11 and I'd have to switch to it anyway. As for the old applications I'm using using X11, either they stick to the dedicated machines or the application will be updated or I'll find a new application. ...My general line of thinking for me, not necesarily the right thing for anyone else. KM> There exists the new fork of X11, XLibre, but its dev is, shall KM> we say, a bit difficult, is not known for quality code, and most KM> distros refuse to offer it mostly because the dev refused to go KM> along with their wokeness. FOSS right now is flaming overloaded KM> with woke crazies (a natural side effect of proliferating "Codes KM> of Conduct") , and lately they've all come out of the woodwork. KM> (Don't believe me? Check out the Lunduke Journal on Youtube.) I'm half-thinking the XLibre code might not be all that great because the good X11 developers went to Wayland, leaving the not-so-great developers. ...We all had to learn, but I'm thinking the new/younger developers probably don't have the background to understand and therefore modify the old code. Tangent example: I could look at the floorboard of a 1950 car and identify the switch-thing on the floor to the left of the brake or clutch as for the high beam. Some twenty-year -old: . > ..Well, the article is pretty much verifying what I thought: X11 out, > Wayland in. The bad part with that is some of our favourite utilities > will be no longer be able to be used with future OS updates, so back to > the usual: switch OS or stay with an old OS. KM> Try installing Xwayland, if it's offered. It's specifically meant KM> as a bridge for those old utilities that didn't recompile for KM> Wayland. Notably screen recording utilities. KM> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Wayland#Xwayland > KM> Everything had to be recompiled for Wayland, and some programs > KM> still haven't been, and may misbehave in new and different ways, > KM> and different ways again if you have an NVidia graphics card. > Right. In the past I have read comments where the author/maintainers of > certain utilies will not update to current just because of what boils > down to too much work. So great 32-bit utilities - bye-bye. :( Now KM> Yeah. The problem is that there just aren't enough competent warm KM> bodies to maintain both 32bit and 64bit versions of everything. KM> For several years KDE had the Binary Factory doing that KM> automagically (as well as MacOS and iOS versions, when they would KM> compile) but that got shut down a couple years ago. I think it's KM> over at GitLab now but it doesn't do the automatic attempted KM> compile anymore. Probably concerns/issues over copyrighted material. > X11-utilities -- give one last hug. ...I'd guess a way to run X11 will > be created, similar to the concept of WINE. ..."BEER"? Barry's Eyeball > Emulator Rewinder?? KM> Xwayland. They stole my idea! > KM> setup. I'm guessing the problem is actually that the affected > KM> apps use an older version of GTK (the toolkit most often used for > KM> Gnome apps). If it's an old GTK, it's probably introducing a > KM> scaling error. > OK. ...Was thinking one thing I didn't do was reboot the system: may > have completed some sort of update/revision but at the time had a bunch > of projects on hold -- not going to be lost if reboot, just would take a > little bit of time to bring back. And other than the video noise I saw > no difference between running this monitor at 60 Hz and 75 Hz, so > potentially a lot of work for nothing. KM> Yeah, probably a pointless exercise. Might go away with the next KM> update, or maybe you should screencap and bug report it? Almost too much work when I don't need the faster refresh. And troubleshooting could be expensive: the second monitor (here on the wall) is identified as Monitor #1), is either DP or DVI and only goes up to 60 Hz. And my CPU is integrated to no video daughtercard. ...I've got almost a half-dozen variables right there! > Here I have one monitor on the HDMI port and the other on DVI/DP -- > whichever is available on the computer. AFAIK one or the other won't > work with the VGA port. KM> Since digital displaced analog, that's sometimes an issue. Also KM> the VGA to DVI/etc adapters can be fussy. One might work and KM> another that looks identical might not. KVMs sometimes don't have KM> full support either, or go NO WAY when there's an adapter in the KM> mix. Also, KVMs have their own resolution limits. More variables!! Oh, here's a good one, tangential to your KVM. On my MythTV Backend and NAS (two separate computers) I have little 4" monitors plugged in: yes, teeny-tiny and barely see anything but the idea is for me to be able to glance at the screens and see if there's a new block indicating an update or something else. Remotely log in to see. Anyway, the monitors have composite video in so HDMI2AV adapter. One adapter needed external power to work, the other didn't so didn't. Worked fine until one day the monitor started to cycle-flicker indicating video signal, no video signal. Test, swapping in the other computer's HDMI2AV, which required power. Monitor works, so bad adapter -- into the electorinc recycle. Had a spare HDMI2AV so put that in. Few days later dawned on me: waitaminute - the other two HDMI2AV needed external power to work, maybe for some reason this one (the original) 'suddenly' needs external power too?? I haven't changed anything but.... Pull old unit, connect with external power: now magically works and has so for weeks! > One problem I have had with the video switches is they will sometimes > fail to detect the computer that has been plugged in ==> will no longer > see, so skips that input. I've also had it where the switch switches > inputs without a manual input, so "how come I'm typing but nothing is on > the screen??!!". KM> Yeah. And what seems to be another side effect, wake from sleep KM> became haphazard. It's a regular complaint from laptop owners. KM> For a long time Fedora would not wake up, tho that got fixed a KM> couple versions back. Win11 on Zombie needs the power button KM> pressed to wake it up, it will not wake from mouse or keyboard KM> input (sometimes there's a setting for wake-on-USB, but not with KM> Zombie, far as Win11 is concerned). And so on. KM> Tho last night out of the blue Zombie came awake for no reason. KM> WTF. So what do you expect from a Zombie? (Probably getting ready for Halloween!) > > part of the Sanders Associates 720; the text character was written out > > sort of like cursive as one continous line. Think how a neon sign has > > its glass tube bent to create the letters. (Usual method is multiple > > straight traces to create the letter.) > KM> Woah, that is cool. Not very practical, but cool. > I'm not sure why they did it that way, especially when the turn-on-and- > off-the-raster had been around for ages, plus I would think the detail > in positioning the beam on the screen would be immensely increased. KM> You'd think. KM> https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Sanders_Associates_720 KM> https://manx-docs.org/details.php/105,21492 KM> https://bitsavers.org/pdf/sandersAssociates/Sanders_720_Technical_ KM> Description_M KM> r67.pdf KM> Well, that didn't tell me anything. But the roots of those sites KM> have sure recycled a lot of those deleted bits! I'll take a look at those sites later - thanks! > .. The word 'nun' is just the letter "n" doing a cartwheel. KM> This explains the Flying Nun. There's an explanation for Sister Bertrille? (Think that was her name -- I recall the show but not watching it. May have been doing homework when it was on.) ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Told wife she was bad at directions; she got mad, packed bags, & right. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .