Subj : Graphics driver quest To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Sun Sep 21 2025 08:34:00 Hi Ky! > > That explains that big 'BOOM!' I just heard! > KM> Nope, that was me taking a header onto the carpet this morning. > KM> (Hooked a toe on something in the dark. Gonna have a shiner.) > Ouch! I did something like that years ago but not nearly as > catastrophic: my first apartment, shag carpeting; somehow the heel of my > shoe caught - sprained ankle. KM> The shiner did not materialize, so I won't look at beat-up as I KM> feel. So much for your natural Halloween look! > > So as usual my issues are backwards from the norm! > KM> Nah, I've seen this before. Very old Windows programs often > KM> assumed a very low resolution, and provided their own window > KM> decorations, so on a newer screen they looked awful (all fuzzy > KM> and dithered). Basically the same problem in a different suit. > I don't recall having anything like that when I was running Windows as > the primary OS, but then I was also using a CRT. ...Probably same > refresh rate, just lower resolution and slower response. KM> I liked Rockford for business cards. Rockford hies from Win3.0 KM> and is a 16bit program, with low-resolution graphics. It looked KM> llike crap on XP (the last OS that Rockford could run on). If you KM> didn't know the program's history, it wasn't obvious that the KM> dithering was not something wrong with your monitor. "All of a sudden" one notices the problems that were there but hidden by the older hardware. > KM> It's become a religious debate right up there with SysV init vs > KM> systemd. I don't care one way or the other so long as it works > KM> (tho systemd's binary logfiles are stupid). But once Fedora and > KM> Ubuntu (and later, Debian) adopted Wayland and systemd, it was > KM> all over except for the screaming from minor distros no one ever > KM> heard of. Almost everyone is downstream from one of those, and > KM> it's too much work to maintain two branches. > Right. LIS other places, I sort of go with the flow -- well, OS-wise. > I'm going to presume the people who programme all this stuff so I can > use it sort of know what they're doing. Sure, they'll make mistakes. KM> One HOPES they know what they're doing... there are days I have KM> doubts. I'll agree. May be the best choice for them, but is it the best one for me? LIS, I sort of 'go with the flow' mainly because it's easier, admittedly. I don't know how to programme for starters. > As for systemd, I think the error log portion I occasionally use is in > journalctl. To me that is not overly user-friendly as is a condensed > (ZIP style?) and so not directly accessible. I am getting used to the > command stucture -- part of the 'getting used to' is I don't need to use > the log that often (which is good!) so forget and have to look up. KM> I haven't been arsed to look at the logs in Fedora (systemd) but KM> if they're just zipfiles that would be fine, zips are almost KM> universally readable. If they're some other compression or KM> encryption or are just the flags saved that have to be parsed KM> into the log template when you read them, that is not fine at KM> all, what happens when you can't boot the system? Hope your backups are good! The times I couldn't boot a system around here an error routine told me what to do to fix (thank you!!). That was when the SSD was failing (had the OS on it; HDD has the data). ...Otherwise it's remove the æSD card from the Raspberry Pi and edit out what I did to screw it it. > > KM> There exists the new fork of X11, XLibre, but its dev is, shall > > KM> we say, a bit difficult, is not known for quality code, and most > > KM> distros refuse to offer it mostly because the dev refused to go > > KM> along with their wokeness. FOSS right now is flaming overloaded > > KM> with woke crazies (a natural side effect of proliferating "Codes > > KM> of Conduct") , and lately they've all come out of the woodwork. > > KM> (Don't believe me? Check out the Lunduke Journal on Youtube.) > > I'm half-thinking the XLibre code might not be all that great because > > the good X11 developers went to Wayland, leaving the not-so-great > > developers. ...We all had to learn, but I'm thinking the new/younger > KM> Leaving exactly ONE developer (not actually part of the X11 > KM> team), who'd been submitting numerous patches for years but none > KM> of them were merged. Whether it was poor code or bad attitude > KM> (or, reportedly, both) is open to debate, but bottom line is the > KM> maintainers just weren't interested in going back to X11 (which > KM> had been a dead end for about 10 years already), let alone > KM> testing someone else's code, and the merges never happened.. > So one guy trying to do the work of a group. ...If I were him (or her) I > don't think I would have bothered after a year. KM> No, the group had moved on and the one guy kept pestering them KM> with iffy patches for software that was essentially retired. He KM> actually accelerated the demise of X11 when he forked it and made KM> a stink about none of his patching being merged -- in response a KM> whole bunch of distros nuked X11 out of their future. Ah! One thing to ask a work buddy a question or two once they've left; quite another to act like the two still work together. KM> Fork alone, no one would have cared. Fork and be a jerk... well. A lot is a volunteer basis, and there is still a form of volunteering even when paid: could be a bit of foot-dragging towards someone, slow to respond, etc. As for being a jerk, usually not a good outcome. > KM> I expect eventually the handful of distros still using X11 will > KM> slide over to XLibre, just because there is nowhere else to go if > KM> they can't or won't use Wayland (and same for systemd). > KM> But it's kinda painting themselves into a dead end. When the > KM> whole ecosystem goes that way, you either go along or become > KM> niche and eventually unmaintainable. > Right: either have to keep up or go extinct, unless one of those super- > rare stand-alone niche critters. KM> That's where it's going to be, yeah. There's a discussion going KM> on over at Lunduke's forum about this... lot of people are enough KM> tired of the woke drama (which has utterly infested most of FOSS) KM> to want to just pack up and do their own thing, but how practical KM> is that? Not very. You wind up niche and who maintains it?? Generally eventually no one: either lost interest or died. And the drama you mentioned, sort of reminds me of the fork guy: one thing to try to maintain, maybe modernize a bit; asking for help is OK, demanding is not. > > > X11-utilities -- give one last hug. ...I'd guess a way to run X11 KM> ll > > > be created, similar to the concept of WINE. ..."BEER"? Barry's yeba KM> l > > > Emulator Rewinder?? > > KM> Xwayland. > > They stole my idea! > KM> And your beer!! > They can have my beer, it's my BEER I want! KM> I did not know there was case-sensitive beer. Well, there are cases that hold 15, cases that hold 24.... More or less and seems people get quite sensitive! KM> Maybe it happens when you upgrade from a sixpack. In college I bought a six-pack of some half-decent beer to have if some friends wanted -- I'm not into beer: I'd rather have wine or a 'gentle liquor' or even "water on the rocks" (water with ice). Ended up my friends were pretty much of the same mind and so the beer pretty much sat in the back or the 'fridge. ...I made a beer bread out of one or two. > > KM> Yeah, probably a pointless exercise. Might go away with the next > > KM> update, or maybe you should screencap and bug report it? > > Almost too much work when I don't need the faster refresh. And > KM> And if it's the old-toolkit problem, no one is going to fix it > KM> anyway, or the toollkit would already be updated. > Yup -- not really worth the effort. I didn't see any difference between > 60 and 75 Hz, though perhaps playing a game I may have, and I'm not a > game played other than Solitaire and Mahjongg for a quick break. (How > fast can I move those tiles?!) KM> Doesn't really affect anything that isn't either video editing or KM> higher-end gaming. Otherwise it's just ... how does this monitor KM> look best? And they probably last longer at a lower refresh rate KM> anyway. Possibly. Probably the new ones won't last as long as the old ones mainly because using components with too-close tolerances to the fail point: old - 1/8 Watt resistor, new - 1/16 Watt. Here on UPSs but they still have quite a range for output. > > troubleshooting could be expensive: the second monitor (here on the > > wall) is identified as Monitor #1), is either DP or DVI and only goes up > > to 60 Hz. And my CPU is integrated to no video daughtercard. ...I've > KM> > KM> Do you mean you have integrated graphics? > Yes: KM> Ah, I did parse it correctly. Probabluy didn't help I didn't type correctly up there: "integrated to no video daughtercard". ?? "So no video daughtercard". > barry@Cougar:~$ inxi -G > Graphics: > Device-1: Intel AlderLake-S GT1 driver: i915 v: kernel > Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 driver: X: loaded: > modesetting > unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915 resolution: 1: 1920x1080~60Hz > 2: 1920x1080~60Hz > OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel UHD Graphics 770 (ADL-S GT1) > v: 4.6 Mesa 23.2.1-1ubuntu3.1~22.04.3 > > Why is there 'x11 server' up there?? ... KM> I was gonna ask... > barry@Cougar:~$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE > x11 > > Thats's why! KM> Now you've confused the poor thing. My brain or my computer? > Ummm, I'm going to leave that alone because this is my main system and > there's too much of a probability doing a quick change to Wayland is > going to break something, and it's not going to be repaired with Duct > Tape. KM> Oh, you might have selected an X11 session at login. I'm thinking I would not have because I tend to go with defaults: they (the programmers) changed something with this version for a reason. I'm thinking I switched back to X11 because Remmina (^*) didn't work. ^* Remmina is a remote viewing.accessing utility: use it here for accessing headless RPi's, other systems that might be right next to me but more comfortable to sit straight ahead in my chair than twist around with my knees hitting the desk drawers. And as a side on that some systems don't play nice with Remmina so also using TigerVNC and NoMachine. Can't get rid of any because none work with all. KM> Not going to have a choice soon, tho.. Ubuntu is dropping X11 KM> entirely as of the next release. Which is probably good overall but will be a problem for specific utilities. LIS, I think I want from Wayland back to X11 because of Remmina, so if Remmina has not been updated to run with Wayland I wil lhave to access those machines another way. SSH is good, but sometimes graphics is a lot easier. ...Just another reason when upgrading OSs I've learned to build a new machine and keep the old one around until the bugs are worked out. > > got almost a half-dozen variables right there! > KM> And inmates running the asylum! > KM> http://www.the-sandpit.com/inmates2.gif > They just need another brick in the wall! KM> I think they threw them all at someone already. I thought you said you tripped on your carpet? (Actually the 'another brick in the wall' was a weak Pink Floyd reference.) > I have seen "for parts only" on some eBay items. In some cases makes KM> Usually someone trying to sell outright junk. That's what I figure, though I can see where someone could mine the still-good parts from a dead unit. I've repaired radios, amps, TVs, etc., sometimes with just solder and soldering iron: cracked/failed trace or cold solder joint. The monitor I set out last week someone took. I don't know if for attempted repair or sell for the metals. If they know how to replace the back lights they've got a decent monitor. > sense: my old monitor (we back on that again?!) worked fine except for > (probably) the backlight(s). Getting the backlight(s) probably isn't too > difficult, opening the case - probably relatively simple. Replacing the > backlight(s) -- now we're getting into potential issues! Closing the > case back up -- there's the issue!! KM> Oh, tiny screws and sticky things. Are we up to such fine KM> surgery? Depends on the situation. In the case of the monitor, it was old: 2010 - so ~15 years old. Other components probably starting to fail. I was also sort of looking for a good excuse to get a larger monitor, which did and didn't pan out. The monitor that failed was the side monitor but hung on the wall; sort of used for 'scratch paper'. From what I remember the next size up was more money than I wanted to spend fit issues. Plus had started to think the main monitor is still fairly new but of course aging, so had decided to move the main monitor to the wall and the newly purchased one is the main monitor. ....Well, tangented that one! I have performed CPR on an old receiver I was gifted years ago. Power transformer failed; replaced with two (!): couldn't find replacement because of the two secondaries (for output voltages) combination didn't exist (checked with a regional electronic supply wholesaler/retailer) so two transformers it is! ( think it would have failed Energy Star rating!) Worked for years, something else failed, fixed that. Few years later the IC for the audio power amp failed. No replacements; not worth building an amp, bye-bye! (sniff!) Did extract the two power transformers! > .. Wondered why music coming from printer. Apparently paper was jamming. KM> Like this! KM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7rX4LPtKw Huh: "Video not available" - thought because I did Private Browsing but also with regular mode. Did find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7rX4LPtKw ...Same site! Why not work direct but does after the search? Remembered it was me trying to view icobinito? ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Blonde wanted to sign up as organ donor but all she had was a guitar! --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .