00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.11.04
00:00:01 --- log: started forth/02.11.04
00:00:01 <joonas> : connect-unix  ( str len fd --)
00:00:09 <joonas>         >r >sockaddr_unix dup r> ( adr adr fd) 
00:00:09 <joonas>         swap $6e connect 0< abort" bad connect()"
00:00:09 <joonas>         free throw
00:00:09 <joonas> ;
00:00:09 <Dr{Who}> :c)
00:00:14 <Dr{Who}> seems we have a winner
00:00:38 <joonas> you gotta love interactive testing.
00:00:50 <Dr{Who}> : I.RX?   IRfd @ key?-file ;     \ -- ? ; test receiver ready
00:00:53 <Dr{Who}> this will be the true test
00:01:29 <Dr{Who}> I.RX? . 0  ok 
00:01:29 <Dr{Who}> now i push my remote control button and see if it goes high
00:01:47 <Dr{Who}> I.RX? . -1  ok
00:01:48 <Dr{Who}> bingo
00:01:52 <Dr{Who}> :c)
00:01:56 <joonas> ah
00:02:33 <Dr{Who}> for some reason read-line barfs on the unix socket but its ok i dont mind scanning the stream
00:02:47 <joonas> This has been fun, but I really have to hit the sack for a few hours.
00:02:55 <Dr{Who}> ok thanks for the help
00:03:02 <Dr{Who}> maybe ill catch you here another day..
00:03:05 <joonas> no problem.  bye all
00:03:14 --- quit: joonas ("ircII2.8.2-EPIC3.004+Kasi --- Bloatware at its finest.")
00:11:29 <Robert> Morning all.
00:13:01 <Dr{Who}> hwdy
00:13:30 <Robert> :)
00:18:38 <Dr{Who}> he probalby wont agree with that change but it seems so much cleaner :c)
00:23:10 <Robert> Who won't agree with what change?
00:24:58 <Dr{Who}> was working with joonas on some code
00:25:14 <Dr{Who}> made a slight change to the final version
00:25:20 <Robert> Oh, okay.
00:26:28 <Dr{Who}> his intentions were good to pass in the path to the socket to open ie /dev/lircd but in reality its not needed because that will never change on any system its a constant so no need to pass just hard code into the open-ir word
00:28:39 <Robert> What Forth are you working with?
00:29:38 <Dr{Who}> gforth
00:31:08 <Robert> Ok.
00:31:54 <Robert> Hrm. Got to talk to I440r later. In his Forth you can use the open() syscall, and I really think it would be a good idea to define the constants used by it ;)
00:32:25 <Robert> Well, school time.
00:32:28 <Robert> See you later.
00:32:56 <Dr{Who}> ok have fun.
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01:06:56 <Dr{Who}> any good existing functions for spliting a string like  splice or token
01:47:45 <Robert> No idea... I don't really use ANS.
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10:04:26 <Dr{Who}> didnt have much luck lastnight searching around must be some good tokenizers or something
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10:18:50 <TreyB> Dr{Who}: I think you want to look at a couple of the string handling packages mentioned in the news groups.  If you want something fancier, search for the BNF and/or Grey parsers.
10:21:06 <thin> what do you want to handle strings for?
10:21:08 <thin> or parse for?
10:22:40 <Robert> Hi thin.
10:31:30 <Dr{Who}> sorry was afk
10:31:34 <Dr{Who}> simple stuff like given
10:31:38 <Dr{Who}> "HI MY NAME IS SALLY"
10:31:48 <Dr{Who}> break it out into "HI" "MY" "NAME" "ETC"
10:31:57 <Dr{Who}> so a tokenizer
10:33:37 <Robert> I think I wrote a simple one a couple of weeks ago.
10:33:56 <Robert> That's not very hard to write, right?
10:34:10 <thin> nope
10:34:17 <thin> you just parse for the spaces
10:34:25 <Robert> Yes..
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10:35:43 <onetom> hi lander ;)
10:35:50 <highlaender> hi
10:36:11 <onetom> i got a priv whois from u in the prev days...
10:36:29 <highlaender> yo
10:36:39 <Robert> Hi highlaender :)
10:37:02 <highlaender> hi
10:41:42 <thin> : tokenizer space word hhere string ;
10:41:48 <thin> (fake code here)
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10:56:29 <gilbertbsd> hullo
10:56:48 <Robert> Hi :)
10:56:56 <gilbertbsd> sup robert?
10:57:07 <gilbertbsd> is there some way of bypassing BIOS?
10:57:13 <thin> of course
10:57:19 <thin> you just don't use the bios
10:57:30 <thin> and don't use the int
10:57:33 <gilbertbsd> how?
10:57:43 <thin> well if you want to write something on the monitor
10:57:54 <thin> instead of $21 int,  you can just write the stuff directly to the video buffer
10:58:02 <Robert> Build your own computer.
10:58:14 <gilbertbsd> so is there a way of skipping the hole POST thing?
10:58:21 <thin> what's POST?
10:58:26 <gilbertbsd> Power On Self Test
10:58:32 <Dr{Who}> uggg!
10:58:34 <thin> oh
10:58:43 <thin> rip out the bios then ;P
10:58:48 <thin> or flash it with your own code
10:58:55 <gilbertbsd> but things will go atwitter!
10:59:31 <thin> flashing it with your own code shouldn't do that if you understand what code you need to flash
11:00:13 <gilbertbsd> hmmm.
11:00:23 <gilbertbsd> and can I unflash it or is it always permanent?
11:00:33 <Dr{Who}> um good way to get knee deep in intel spec books for about 3 years
11:00:55 <gilbertbsd> heheh. I don't read INTEL docs thank you.\
11:01:31 <thin> you can unflash it, but more likely, you'll be forced to get an EPROM programmer or whatever tool that lets you flash the bios, and flash it with a saved copy
11:01:39 <thin> or just get a spare bios chip
11:01:47 <thin> and just plug that in when your done with the old one
11:02:23 <gilbertbsd> All I want to do is to bypass the POST thingamabob.
11:02:25 <Dr{Who}> the process that a processor takes to fire up the board they usualy sit on is very comples would be better to just get some microprocessor board with initialization sampes in asm
11:02:37 <Dr{Who}> complex that is
11:02:42 <thin> gilbertbsd: bios settings might let you turn it off?
11:02:50 <gilbertbsd> nope.
11:03:13 <gilbertbsd> I have an hp hand held computer (620 lx) and it has no POST!
11:03:22 <Dr{Who}> ahh
11:03:27 <gilbertbsd> you turn it off, and it goes off, you turn it back on and it comes right back to where you were.
11:03:38 <gilbertbsd> why can't that be for the PC?
11:03:47 <thin> because the PC is lame?
11:04:02 <gilbertbsd> hmmm might be. I don't recall a POST for the mac.
11:04:04 <gilbertbsd> hmmmm.
11:04:19 <Dr{Who}> the thing is gilbert it does not realy turn off
11:04:32 <Dr{Who}> the processor and system go into a sleep mode
11:04:34 <gilbertbsd> the battery dies ... my word, I could take out the battery!
11:04:39 <Dr{Who}> hmm
11:05:01 <Dr{Who}> internal backup memory batter probably
11:05:08 <Dr{Who}> so you can swap out battery and not loose everything
11:05:26 <gilbertbsd> oh I got nothing to lose.
11:05:34 <Dr{Who}> something has to keep all the current memory intack or it would have to restart
11:05:47 <Dr{Who}> unless it flushes it somewhere perminent like a drive
11:05:56 <gilbertbsd> there are two batteries, one large watch battery and a 'wand like' main battery.
11:06:17 <Dr{Who}> the watch batter keeps it alive in memory suspended just enough not to loose the bits
11:06:20 <thin> cylindrical battery?
11:06:37 <gilbertbsd> yep
11:06:44 <Dr{Who}> there is probably a cap. to that keeps just a few more seconds of life
11:08:20 <Dr{Who}> pc's dont have this because they were not designed to have a battery go dead while working and need to save stuff thats what big UPS's are for :c)
11:08:31 <gilbertbsd> heheh.
11:08:38 <gilbertbsd> but the POST is quite outdated.
11:08:56 <Dr{Who}> on the hp?
11:08:59 <Dr{Who}> or pc?
11:09:03 <gilbertbsd> for all pcs
11:09:09 <Dr{Who}> ya very true.
11:09:32 <Dr{Who}> there are some new ones out for some boxes that have more advanced stuff but most pc's dont.. laptops have much more advanced stuff 
11:10:06 <gilbertbsd> but it is a diagnostic thing that should only turn on sometimes not every freaking time you reboot or turn off the computer.
11:10:09 <Dr{Who}> again to deal with the complex nature of things like batteries and removable devices
11:10:15 <Dr{Who}> but the general bios code for a pc has not changed much over the years
11:10:40 <gilbertbsd> my 286 did the same freaking thing as this Pentium NNN does when you turn it on.
11:10:48 <Dr{Who}> describe.
11:11:21 <gilbertbsd> re: POST.
11:11:56 <Dr{Who}> um does it require human intervention to continue?
11:11:59 <gilbertbsd> there should be an override switch. When my 70 year old turns on the computer, no matter what the POST says to her, it means zilch.
11:12:04 <gilbertbsd> nno it doesn't.
11:12:27 <gilbertbsd> iit just does it and can be intervened. but I believe it doesn't need to be there EVERY freaking time, unless something goes wrong.
11:13:02 <gilbertbsd> I don't know of a calculator which has a POST.
11:13:03 <Dr{Who}> ok as far as i know every pc in the world needs to run through some tests during boot some even allow you to upload flash images into them to see a picture of your choice on the monitor duing this phase
11:13:21 <gilbertbsd> yes, I am saying that process is unnecessary.
11:13:29 <Dr{Who}> true enough.
11:13:30 <gilbertbsd> It should be completely optional.
11:13:48 <Dr{Who}> wont get me to argue on that one. but its been that way since um my first z80 system
11:13:57 <Dr{Who}> a few decades ago
11:14:17 <Dr{Who}> going afk.. bbiab
11:14:21 <gilbertbsd> if there is something wrong, with say the harddisk or ram or anything the POST reports (except for no OS), you are gonna have to open the damned thing, so why not keep its switch INSIDE?
11:22:02 <Robert> Any idea how I could print a number with a fixed size of characrers (e.g. 8 hex digits) in IsForth?
11:24:56 <gilbertbsd> how would you do it in isn'tForth?
11:25:52 <thin> robert:  don't understand your question
11:26:21 <thin> is the binary number less than 8 bits or something?
11:27:47 <Robert> It's a 32-bit word.
11:28:06 <Robert> Could range from 0 to 2^32-1 :)
11:28:13 <Robert> I want it like..
11:28:17 <Robert> If it's 0: 00000000
11:28:27 <Robert> If it's 0xabcd: 0000abcd
11:28:29 <Robert> etc.
11:28:40 <Robert> Just wondering if you knew of any built-in function.
11:28:53 <Robert> btw, I'm learning to factor, mister thin :P
11:29:12 <Robert> This whole project I'm working with consists of one-liners so far.
11:33:10 <gilbertbsd> robert have you seen joy?
11:33:32 <Robert> I've read the page, but I still don't see what lists are good for.
11:34:17 <gilbertbsd> lists? they are good for creating lisp interpreters :D
11:34:21 <thin> robert:  hmm..  have you checked out the <# # #>  words?
11:34:39 <thin> dunno if isforth has those
11:35:25 <gilbertbsd> what are those words thin?
11:36:02 <Robert> Maybe...
11:36:12 <Robert> Well, I'm too lazy to do anything about itr.
11:36:18 * Robert leaves it in its current state,.
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11:46:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin
13:50:57 --- topic: set to 'IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm' by thin
13:55:05 --- topic: set to 'IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.cm' by thin
13:55:08 --- topic: set to 'IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com' by thin
13:57:03 <Robert> Some forth code for you: http://robert.zizi.org/~tinyvm/tinier.tgz
13:57:11 <Robert> Just to check how my Forth code looks today :P
13:58:20 <thin> : i_and ( a b -- a and b )
13:58:20 <thin>   spop spop and spush ;
13:58:20 <thin> : i_or ( a b -- a or b )
13:58:20 <thin>   spop spop or spush ;
13:58:20 <thin> : i_xor ( a b -- a xor b )
13:58:20 <thin>   spop spop xor spush ;
13:58:26 <thin> factor out what those have in common :P
13:58:44 <thin> yeah, it seems better, but you're also coding for a different problem
13:58:52 <Robert> Yeah.
13:59:03 <Robert> It's quite simple.-
13:59:14 <Robert> But imagine writing e.g. asm.f in C.
13:59:19 <Robert> That wouldn't be quite as simple.
13:59:32 <thin> yeah
14:01:01 <thin> one teeny little suggestion, you might want to find ways to reduce the vocabulary (the number of words that exist in your code) somehow..  while trying to keep the words 1/2 liners
14:01:06 <thin> 1 to 2 liners
14:01:30 <Robert> Uhm.. how would I do that?
14:01:35 <thin> dunno
14:01:36 <thin> :P
14:01:37 <thin> magic?
14:01:38 <thin> ;)
14:01:38 <Robert> Heh!
14:01:49 <thin> i don't know what you are trying to do
14:01:51 <Robert> I mean, I can't see many things I could put in the same word.
14:01:54 <thin> only briefly looked at it
14:01:58 <Robert> Maybe one or two things, but nothing big.
14:02:11 <Robert> It's an assembler/disassembler/simulator for a VM project.
14:02:21 <thin> 32 words?
14:02:24 <thin> er
14:02:27 <thin> 32 primitives?
14:02:31 <Robert> Yes.
14:02:55 <thin> you had to find a use for the 5 extra spots? ;)
14:02:55 <Robert> The instruction set is slightly inspirated by machineforth ;)
14:03:07 <Robert> Well, it's just inspirated.
14:03:13 <Robert> Not an exact copy.
14:06:32 <thin> google.com is so stupid
14:06:50 <Robert> Hm?
14:06:50 <thin> it doesn't search for special characters like #  even when you put them in quotes
14:06:55 <Robert> Heh.
14:08:06 <XeF4> probably because it builds a big word database for quick indexing
14:08:12 <XeF4> it can't search for Finnish properly either
14:08:42 <XeF4> since it takes a 'word' to be anything delimited by non-alphanumerics
14:09:03 <thin> hmm
14:09:14 <XeF4> but it's a lot better than what was around before
14:09:31 --- quit: Dr{Who} (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:09:58 <thin> except when you want to search for files
14:10:02 <thin> and certain other things
14:10:05 <thin> that i can't remember
14:10:12 <thin> then you go to a different search engine
14:10:48 <thin> but as you said..   forth.zip  wouldn't work very well :)
14:11:07 <XeF4> "forth.zip" will work more likely than not
14:11:22 <XeF4> you will get some false hits of "that forth zipfile I sent you last week" and whatnot
14:18:16 <thin> xef4: you know finnish?
14:19:56 <XeF4> thin: mmhmm
14:20:44 <Robert> Now learn Swedish :)
14:25:45 <XeF4> =P
14:26:12 * Robert leaves for bed. Night all.
14:30:51 <XeF4> night
14:33:27 <thin> wanna guess why this doesn't work?
14:33:28 <thin> : countletters
14:33:28 <thin>   0 do
14:33:28 <thin>   inbuff i + c@ dup
14:33:28 <thin>   dup 'a' > swap 'z' < and if incr> #letters else
14:33:28 <thin>   dup 'A' > swap 'Z' < and if incr> #letters then then
14:33:30 <thin>   loop
14:33:32 <thin>   cr ." Number of letters: " #letters . ;
14:35:42 <thin> the number of letters is ALWAYS 10, and it leaves a whole bunch of stuff on the stack, which is weird, cause i tested it in interactive
14:35:58 * thin probably should've factored the word heh
14:38:35 <thin> actually
14:38:40 <thin> i don't need two gay if statements
14:56:40 <thin> weird
15:11:32 * thin xef4 recently over the last 3 days i've conversed with him about itv's demise and such, and while i have a willingness to believe some stuff, i get the feeling of incongruence
15:15:31 <XeF4> how so?
15:18:21 <thin> : countletters
15:18:21 <thin>   0 do
15:18:21 <thin>     inbuff i + c@
15:18:21 <thin>     ?alphabetical
15:18:21 <thin>     if incr> #letters then
15:18:21 <thin>   loop ;
15:18:40 <thin> anybody see why #letters is 28 when there is 16 letters
15:18:48 <thin> and why #letters is 12 when there is 12 letters
15:18:58 <thin> (i.e. it is corret when there are only 12 letters)
15:19:58 <thin> ?
15:21:16 <XeF4> is ?alphabetical sane?
15:22:05 <thin> yep
15:22:19 <thin> : ?lowalpha  dup 'a' > swap 'z' < and ;
15:22:20 <thin> : ?highalpha dup 'A' > swap 'Z' < and ;
15:22:20 <thin> : ?alphabetical dup ?lowalpha ?highalpha or ;
15:23:13 <thin> ?alphabetical isn't important, i'm pretty sure it's not where the problem is
15:23:15 <thin> because
15:23:25 <thin> i pass SPAN @ to countletters
15:23:41 <thin> and the loop only loops that many times
15:23:48 <thin> for example, i type blahblahblahblah
15:23:56 <XeF4> ?alphabetical is bugged though
15:24:02 <thin> and the countletters loops 16 times
15:24:13 <thin> but #letters ends up as 28
15:24:22 <XeF4> : ?alphabetical dup ?lowalpha swap ?highalpha or ;
15:24:23 <thin> even tho the loop only loops 16 times.. 
15:24:32 <thin> ooh
15:38:36 <thin> heh
15:38:38 <thin> figured it out
15:38:45 <thin> dup 'a' >=
15:38:49 <thin> instead of dup 'a' >
15:38:55 <thin> or else i cut out the a
15:40:18 <XeF4> 'a' - 26 < 
15:52:14 <thin> : ?printable dup  33 - 0> swap 126 - 0< and ;
15:52:25 <thin> that works just fine
15:52:36 <thin> unfortunately, ?alphabetical doesn't ..
15:52:52 <thin> : ?lowalpha  dup 'a' - 0> swap 'z' - 0< and ;
15:52:52 <thin> : ?highalpha dup 'A' - 0> swap 'Z' - 0< and ;
15:52:52 <thin> : ?alphabetical dup ?lowalpha swap ?highalpha or ;
15:54:04 <thin> doh
15:54:16 <thin> heh
15:54:23 <thin> 0> is the same problem :P
15:58:04 <thin> there we go
16:13:31 --- quit: jammi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:31:23 --- topic: set to 'Hey! Forth is 42 years old! Something special may happen this year! | IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com' by thin
16:33:01 <thin> www.colorforth.com was updated, more pictures added to biography and stuff, neato
16:37:48 --- topic: set to 'IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com' by thin
16:40:17 <thin> wow!
16:40:21 <thin> more material on www.colorforth.com
16:40:33 <thin> including a copy of the 1980 byte issue!!
16:40:39 <thin> online!!
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.11.04