00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.05.27 00:49:09 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 00:49:52 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 00:49:55 re.. 00:49:58 onetom: hey 01:06:45 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:06:49 --- nick: a7r_ -> a7r 01:12:43 --- quit: a7r ("Client exiting") 01:56:34 --- join: yo|da (~yo|da@pD9E592DD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:09:55 --- quit: yo|da ("Client exiting") 02:46:52 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-190-115.phnet.fi) joined #forth 03:07:15 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba462d.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 03:07:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Speuler 03:07:28 --- mode: Speuler set -o Speuler 03:07:40 tach 03:08:44 terve 03:31:06 Back to school... 03:32:32 see you Robert! 04:20:57 --- quit: mur ("bbl") 04:51:45 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.142) joined #forth 04:53:41 hi ! 04:53:59 who now owns the chan and how to talk to him ? 05:14:38 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:15:32 --- quit: Speuler ("NO CARRIER") 06:16:16 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba462d.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 06:17:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Speuler 06:17:43 --- mode: Speuler set -o Speuler 06:19:06 --- join: sifbot (~sifforth@h00096b023968.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 06:19:06 Type sifbot: (or /msg sifbot to play in private) 07:41:37 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:41:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 07:52:40 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 09:00:28 bashforth v0.48c fixes a bug in hold 10:06:26 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:53:35 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-189-96.phnet.fi) joined #forth 12:14:24 --- join: thin (~thin@stu04158.cariboo.bc.ca) joined #forth 12:15:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 12:19:03 --- quit: cyberlok (Remote closed the connection) 12:25:14 do re mi fa so la ti do.... forth! 12:27:57 O forth, our true home and native land 12:28:14 Oh say, can you see the forth-spangled banner ... 12:31:06 and that's all the anthems i know (canadian & american) 12:40:58 Vår Forth, vår Forth, vår foster-Forth! 12:41:01 (finnish) 12:41:13 Du gamla, du fria, du fjällhöga Forth! 12:41:15 (swedish) 12:41:23 Ja, vi elsker dette Forthen 12:41:26 (norwegian) 12:41:31 And that's all I know. 12:42:27 yay 12:50:50 everyone, i heartily recommend this article: http://www.tracyfineart.com/usmc/philosophy_who_needs_it.htm 12:50:55 non-forth though 13:04:08 * Robert starts to read. 13:04:18 :) 13:28:18 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:51:58 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:51:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 13:52:18 hi tathi 13:52:24 hey thin 13:52:29 Hi :) 13:52:43 hi Rob 13:52:47 how's things? 13:52:52 --- mode: tathi set -o tathi 13:53:30 Not too bad, I'm coding a bit in C ;) 13:53:35 Using Turbo C++ 1.01 13:53:48 :) 13:54:08 i liked that ide 13:54:18 yeah 13:54:22 Yeah, it's nice. 13:54:24 i have turbo c and turbo pascal zipfiles 13:54:27 The reason why I use it. 13:54:33 of course, that was before I discovered vi ;) 13:54:40 I got TP 6 when I bought my 386 5 years ago. 13:55:12 Hah. TP is way friendlier than vi, imo :P 13:55:29 oh, definitely friendlier 13:55:59 And it doesn't lack THAT many features. 13:56:58 I'm just thoroughly addicted to vim at the moment 13:57:47 That's what I use in Linux. 13:58:09 Out of laziness... and since it's available everywhere. 13:58:18 Started using vi (elvis) to be able to code on Minix. 13:59:41 the modal thing is a big barrier to people starting to use it, but you stop noticing that after a while 13:59:55 and I'm very impressed with how easy it is to customize things 14:00:42 GRRR...what is _with_ this GNU assembler? 14:01:36 It's not meant to be used. ;) 14:02:05 yeah 14:02:26 I use NASM... since I code for DOS and Linux. Same syntax, makes everything easier. 14:02:38 words.s:548: Warning: missing string 14:02:38 words.s:548: Warning: rest of line ignored; first ignored character is `5' 14:02:38 make: *** [words.o] Segmentation fault 14:02:43 And a good program, that's also positive 14:02:49 Haha 14:02:59 Great :) 14:03:14 not only that, but there's no '5' on that line 14:03:30 it _is_ a macro call, but there's no '5' in the macro definition either 14:03:32 :) 14:03:49 Even better. 14:04:12 hmm...maybe now is the time for me to contribute to the open source community bi writing a good PPC assembler for Linux 14:04:20 s/bi/by/ 14:06:31 Not a bad idea... but I've never used PPC, so maybe I should be quiet. 14:06:38 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 14:08:13 as is usually a pain, but this is the first time I've ever seen it do something that looks like a bug. 14:10:05 NASM is full of bugs. 14:10:11 You get used to it :P 14:15:11 heh 14:22:50 hah! I guess it didn't like me making that many macro calls. 14:23:09 I split it into two source files, and it worked fine. 14:23:10 my favorite macro assembler is... 14:23:12 Forth 14:23:20 yup yup 14:23:22 sorry to subject you to that ;) 14:23:39 no, you're absolutely right 14:24:13 set it up so you can mix forth and asm easily...that's the way to do asm 14:24:14 Nothing (that I know of) beats Forth when it comes to 'macros'. 14:24:26 Why I use it everywhere I can... 14:27:58 --- join: knoppix (~knoppix@pD9E59630.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:28:17 hi knoppix 14:28:37 howdy 14:29:09 Hi 14:32:23 be aware OT 14:33:06 * knoppix is hearing jack dejohnette new directions atm :)) 14:34:01 * Robert is listening to ABBA. 14:34:09 Robert, :) 14:34:12 amazing 14:34:14 (People usually get scared when I say that, don't know why :) 14:34:35 * thin is listening to the air conditioning 14:34:40 lol 14:35:16 * mur is listening to computer noisy humming 14:35:28 * thin is listening to mur go to bed 14:35:34 lol 14:35:49 mur: what time is it your time? 14:35:56 too much 14:36:08 more than others here :/ 14:36:29 --- join: knoppix_ (~knoppix@pD9E59630.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:36:41 Yes, like us lucky Swedes! 14:36:48 Half an hour left of the day :) 14:37:05 You live in tomorrow, mur. And tomorrow never knows... so you have to be a miracle. Hi, God! 14:37:08 * mur has used all the tiem already 14:37:16 hello Robert 14:37:28 do you want a sandwich on your table 14:37:31 --- join: knoppix__ (~knoppix@pD9E59630.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:37:31 i can send one from future 14:37:39 hold your floppy drive open 14:37:42 it'll be big 14:38:10 --- part: knoppix__ left #forth 14:38:13 so you're stealing a sandwhich from his future self? :/ 14:38:18 --- join: knx (~knoppix@pD9E59630.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:38:53 --- part: knoppix_ left #forth 14:40:51 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:40:58 --- quit: knx ("Client exiting") 14:43:24 --- part: knoppix left #forth 14:44:56 --- join: today_ (~freenode@pD9545E43.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:46:11 --- part: today_ left #forth 14:46:29 --- join: knopix__ (~freenode@pD9545E43.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:46:36 ok 14:46:50 quite advanced script 14:47:51 --- nick: knopix__ -> knoppix_ 14:56:45 * knoppix_ is fiddling around w/ knoppix grr 14:57:16 wanted to do much more nice things today :-( 15:02:24 but works just right now :-) 15:04:48 --- quit: mur ("ZZZZ countdown initialised") 15:11:51 --- quit: knoppix_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:11:51 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:17:28 --- join: knoppix_ (~freenode@pD9545E43.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:17:28 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 15:31:35 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:31:35 --- quit: knoppix_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:32:18 --- join: knoppix_ (~freenode@pD9545E43.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:32:18 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 15:46:50 anybody here good with comp graphics? :P 15:52:32 Well... 15:52:33 I suck. 15:52:44 That's why I'm coding all this graphics shit. 15:52:46 To suck less! 15:53:46 yay! 15:54:47 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 15:54:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 15:55:11 hi kc5tja :) 15:55:14 re 15:55:21 i've just started reading your email 15:55:42 Yeah. It's a refinement and, hopefully, a clearer explanation of what we're all about. 15:56:19 anybody have any ideas for a name for the #forth site? 15:56:31 or is "#forth site" good enough? 15:56:31 "#forth" ? ;) 15:56:34 Yeah. 15:56:42 Sometimes the best name for something is simply what it is. 15:56:48 but eventually it won't be about the #forth channel 15:56:57 the channel will become secondary to the site if i have my way ;) 15:57:03 You won't. 15:57:03 There's a reason why I am going to choose the name FS/Forth for my Forth project -- it's made by Falvo Software, and it's Forth. :D 15:57:26 Even if he does, the name is often rather endearing. 15:57:33 Consider Apple Computers, for example. 15:57:36 Why is it named Apple? 15:57:49 Because that's Steve Jobs' favorite fruit. 15:57:49 if the site becomes a professionally published site, with high quality articles, an excellent forum.. the channel is no longer the focus of the site 15:58:13 so the channel supports the site, rather than the site supporting the channel.. 15:58:13 Why is the Macintosh so named? Because it's his favorite kind of apple. 15:58:20 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 15:58:35 heh :) 15:58:37 yeah 15:58:52 I think we're concentrating on frivolous issues right now. We'll worry about the name only when it becomes important to do so. YAGNI. 15:59:02 yeah true 15:59:41 Besides, maybe I'll donate an implementation of FS/Forth for FIG-Forth-like standardization, and maybe we can literally call it, #Forth. :) 15:59:54 Who says a name has to consist purely of alphanumeric characters? Forth certainly doesn't care. 16:00:30 Which is one of the nice things about it, IMO. :) 16:00:45 Absolutely. I use that feature to great effect in lots of my Forth software. 16:00:46 :) 16:01:01 and besides, #forth is easier to google (if # is supported by google) 16:01:19 I don't think it is. 16:01:21 google doesn't support # i think.. :( 16:01:36 poundForth :P 16:01:55 # = pound 16:01:58 Octothorpe Forth :) 16:02:13 hashForth 16:02:24 Octothorpe!! 16:02:26 # = hash.. or brädgårdstecken. 16:02:35 ;) 16:02:44 But I guess _nobody_ outside Sweden can remember or even pronounce that. 16:03:01 I pronounce br as burrr... 16:03:13 x-chat won't display anything outside of character range $20 to $7E it seems. 16:03:32 There's always the possibility of calling it @Forth. :D 16:03:40 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 16:03:47 heh :) 16:03:54 --- quit: knoppix_ (Remote closed the connection) 16:03:55 Actually, Google doesn't do @ either. 16:04:10 Oh well. 16:04:17 yeah, hashForth isn't bad 16:04:55 hey 16:05:08 so i need to figure out the breakdown of forums.. 16:05:16 currently i'm thinking of: 16:05:21 Forth Discussion 16:05:26 ANSI Forth Discussion 16:05:35 ColorForth Discussion 16:05:42 Off Topic 16:05:47 what do you guys think? 16:06:04 That sounds good to me so far. I think we can create new forums as they're needed. 16:06:14 Will creating a new forum erase the contents of already existing forums? 16:06:42 nope 16:06:51 That's good. 16:07:02 thin: where is this? 16:07:03 well i can just start it off with: 16:07:06 General Forth talk 16:07:10 Off Topic 16:07:12 For a while there, I was getting the impression that it would. 16:07:26 a7r: it's not up yet. soon 16:08:16 I would start off with "Punctuated Forth", "Color Forth", and "Miscellaneous", and leave it at that. We can always grow the site as the need arises. 16:08:37 Punctuated Forth ?? 16:08:50 e.g., PygmyForth, F83, ANSI Forth systems, etc. 16:08:59 Those that depend on punctuation to distinguish between syntactical elements. 16:09:35 perhaps the better name would be "Colon Forths" ? 16:09:41 heh 16:09:47 Are there any Forth forums? 16:09:47 both of those kinda suck imo :P 16:09:52 Hamming distance is only 1. 16:10:01 robert: there's one or two, but they aren't active at all 16:10:04 Okay. 16:10:45 I haven't seen any myself. But I suspect what will set this place apart from the rest is that the BB is supported by a content-managed site, and the site is supported by the BB, and both are supported by IRC. 16:11:02 E.g., even though we're a closed group of people, we're at least *active*. 16:12:13 hi 16:12:20 hello futhin 16:12:23 a7r_: it's up now.. you can take a peak at it at http://forth.bespin.org/forum/ but note that it's still in development 16:12:26 heya onetom :) 16:12:35 onetom: you're baaack!!! ;D 16:12:55 thin: im roughly always here but in readonly mode 16:13:35 thin: most times im in the opposite period, so when u r active i sleep 16:13:46 some fun news 16:14:26 last night i was recovering a hw raid5 array 16:14:59 hexedit helped me 2 discover the 3 17G disk images 16:15:43 and a ~30lines long gforth program helped me 2 recover & assemble them into a volume 16:16:59 Hi onetom :) 16:17:19 Neat. 16:17:34 Forth has actually been _used_ for something good! 16:17:41 onetom: wow, awesome usage of forth :P 16:19:00 onetom: Can you please write an article (small) detailing how GForth helped you in this problem? 16:19:15 Include code samples if you can? 16:19:56 onetom: the #forth site is going to have a section with published-quality articles.. it'd be cool if you could contribute :D 16:28:44 Oh, neat. 16:28:58 robert: write an article too :P 16:29:09 Maybe I'll publish my project work there, then ;) If you allow things written by me. 16:29:10 but be warned, it has to go thru kc5tja first ;) 16:29:14 Hah. 16:29:40 Well, I'm planning to do my project work (~100 hours, every 12th grader here has to do it) about Forth. 16:29:48 cool 16:29:55 Forth, some other small languages, stacks, the community etc. 16:29:55 what will the project be? 16:30:00 Minimalism, of course. 16:30:06 ^^ 16:30:07 I have some pretty strict editorial standards. However, I'll also work with you on making sure your content is professional and clean. 16:30:11 will you code something or just write an essay ? 16:30:20 Both. 16:30:40 there'll probably be a place for less formal articles.. somewhere ;) 16:30:47 I'm planning to use my Forth implementation and VM for mys AVR board to base this on. 16:31:08 Haha, I can imagine two links, "kc5tja's documents" and "other documents". 16:31:38 Nope. When I write articles, it'll go in the same batch as yours. 16:32:09 I'm just joking.. but sure, if you're willing to help me with my work - even better! 16:32:12 We're looking to make the site into a scholarly research journal. 16:32:45 Yes... something you could link to whatever people ask ;) 16:46:03 kc5tja: yeah, i thought of it 16:50:22 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:04:36 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:04:48 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 17:27:20 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:29:19 brb -- it's getting extremely hot here, and I can barely stay awake. 17:30:41 I'll go to bed soon.. so good night :) 17:31:38 Well, it's just so hot here that, no matter how much water you drink, you're really drowsy. 17:31:56 No good.. how warm is it? 17:32:22 I don't know...let me check. Probably in the high 80s, but it's also pretty humid here, which is unusual for a desert. 17:32:41 How much is that in centigrades? :) 17:32:57 Like.. 30? 17:33:13 30C is 98.7F last I recalled. 17:33:47 Oops -- 37C is. 17:33:52 So between 30 and 37. :) 17:34:03 But let me check more precisely. 17:35:50 prolly 34+ 17:36:12 er nah 17:36:29 humidity is a big factor 17:36:36 i can handle 30 with low humidity 17:37:29 Here it's rarley getting hotter than 30C. 17:37:45 The record where I live is about 35C, I think. 17:38:24 record here is 45 17:38:29 or 44 17:38:49 if you haven't experienced 40C and -40C you aren't a man!!! :P 17:39:09 They say it's 69.1F (20.6C). They are lying through their frigging teeth. 17:39:13 well i probably have only experienced 33C and -30C 17:40:01 I've experienced -29C and 40C ... I think that counts. 17:40:02 -30C made me feel like i had a moustache, back when i was 15 with no facial hair :P 17:40:26 because all the tiny hairs got frozen 17:40:35 thin: I'm 17... No man anyway. 17:40:38 and that was just a 1 minute walk between buildings :P 17:40:57 robert: you're a man when you have a car and a girl 17:41:02 robert: until then... :P 17:41:14 No, you're just mature. 17:41:28 heh :) 17:41:40 You're a man when you've HAD a car and a girl, and now walk/hike/bike ride to your destinations, and you tell the girls to go hoot themselves. 17:41:51 >:D 17:42:14 You're a mountain man when you live in the mountains and grow a big beard with twigs in it! 17:42:31 Heh. 17:43:16 aww.. i've got 5 views to my Yee HAW! message.. no replies ? :P 17:43:21 http://forth.bespin.org/zope gives a 404 error 17:43:27 http://forth.bespin.org/zope/ gives a Zope error. 17:43:41 yeah 17:43:42 weird 17:44:12 zope must be a file that's got no viewing permissions.. 17:44:19 or the directory.. 17:45:06 No, it'd say so. 17:45:16 He has no object database as far as I can see. 17:45:22 NONE. 17:45:39 If you look at the Zope error, and view source, you'll find the actual Python exception frame that generated the error. 17:45:44 notFoundError is the exception that raised it. 17:47:14 kc5tja: we want plone to be at forth.bespin.org right? not some /zope/ or whatever directory? 17:47:45 That depends on certain things. 17:48:02 It depends on how Bespin's admin has it all set up. 17:49:01 thin: :) I don't know if I'll ever get a car. 17:49:40 well if i manage zope from /zope/.. can i tell plone to be at from forth.bespin.org/ ? 17:49:56 No 17:50:13 the admin says he can change the /zope/ url 17:50:26 /zope would be the root object, so all Zope objects contained therein appears below that directory. 17:50:33 ah ok.. 17:50:44 What he's saying is he can put the Zope instance at the root of the virtual domain. 17:51:27 Ask him what he means about the SSH thing too. As a Zope administrator myself, I've never heard of any use of SSH with respect to Zope administration. 17:51:39 (except to get to a command prompt on the remote side) 17:52:41 well i'm on the remote side.. 17:53:32 brb 17:57:31 --- quit: thin ("brb") 18:04:47 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:05:23 --- join: thin (~thin@stu03013.cariboo.bc.ca) joined #forth 18:05:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 18:38:32 http://novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu/~root/raid.fs.0 (this was the 1st version) 18:38:45 http://novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu/~root/raid.fs (... and ~3 hrs later) 18:40:05 ooo sweet 18:44:49 ;) 18:46:21 its a bit like some poem, isnt it? 18:47:57 * kc5tja will have to take a look later. 18:56:22 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:06:41 --- join: Fractal (~doug@new.cure.for.SARS.found.to.be.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 19:09:28 --- topic: set to 'Are you interested in writing an article about your forth project? If you are, we'd love to put it up on the #Forth portal site' by thin 19:11:53 --- topic: set to 'Interested in publishing an article on or about Forth? If so, we'd love to showcase it on a new #Forth portal site, currently in development! Contact thin or kc5tja via memoserv for details.' by kc5tja 19:39:17 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-94-245.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 19:39:31 ahoy matey! 19:40:01 yarr, thar be stack loot! 19:41:01 arr! thar be a gale coming for the #forth site! 19:41:38 not yet but soon :P 19:41:55 soon the monsoon 19:43:00 the site is being transformed into a professionally published site with publication-quality articles, forum for discussion, and resources :D 19:43:29 man, i had no idea freebsd used forth for some of it's scripts, that's pretty cool 19:43:42 *uses 19:43:49 eh, I didn't know that 19:43:51 Sonarman: Can you give an example? I'm not a FreeBSD user. 19:43:54 which scripts? which forth? 19:44:08 thin: Probably Ficl, as Ficl was originally designed for BSD's boot-loader. 19:44:24 http://www.freebsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10276 19:45:00 it uses something called "bootforth", i believe 19:46:27 Yep, that's Ficl-based. 19:47:01 cool, thanks kc5tja 19:47:25 i mean, roger that :) 19:47:44 For me, that'd be QSL. ;D 19:48:04 * kc5tja is glad to see that people are liking it. 19:48:50 QSL is what you say when using morse code, right? 19:49:21 Yes, though occasionally you'll hear it voice as well over HF SSB conversations. 19:49:40 Rarely on VHF frequencies, though, as they're usually high enough quality that "roger" is good enough. 19:50:07 It becomes interesting when someone in a net is actually named Roger. :D 19:50:11 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 19:50:34 hey 19:51:05 yeah, that reminds me of a movie (i think it was one of the "Naked Gun"s), where the airline pilot was saying, "Roger, Roger" 19:51:08 hi a7r 20:11:00 hehe 21:00:11 --- join: semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba46d3.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 21:08:43 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 22:11:16 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.142) joined #forth 22:11:17 --- quit: sifbot (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:15:11 re 22:17:59 --- mode: kc5tja set -t 22:17:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +t 22:18:17 gahh...damn chanserv... 22:18:31 yeah it's got protect modes enabled :P 22:18:57 --- mode: thin set -t 22:18:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +t 22:19:17 --- topic: set to 'Interested in publishing an article on or about Forth? If so, we'd love to showcase it on a new #Forth portal site, currently in development! Contact thin or kc5tja via memoserv for details. ::: Also remember to check out Jeff Fox's articles, located at !' by kc5tja 22:24:54 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 22:25:02 yoh 22:25:20 re 22:25:23 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22:26:31 werd, I just got my AVR dev board up 22:26:36 * a7r_ tries loading some Forth onto it. 22:29:40 Interesting. 22:33:05 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:35:16 heh, AVR epidemy in #forth ;) 22:36:10 :) 22:39:23 * Serg_Penguin is eager to develop a comp w/ Moore's 2$ CPU 22:40:27 speaking of forthchips, i've been thinking about setting up a group buy for the forthchips 22:42:25 Which Forthchips are you referring to? 22:42:36 Unfortunately, I'm in no capacity to develop anything with them or for them right now. 22:42:38 whichever has the most demand for 22:42:47 i'd probably do a poll first 22:43:06 but chip is not comp, we need mommy makeable 'at a knee' by ham radio man 22:43:26 chip is definitely not computer, but maybe some sort of dev kit can be included 22:43:51 Serg_Penguin: ??? I don't understand that statement. 22:43:57 * Serg_Penguin is in doubt what i wanna design - folk's ham computer, poor man's desk comp or a pocket thing 22:44:16 poor man's desk comp >:D 22:44:23 * kc5tja wants his damn Commodore-Amiga back, that's what he wants. 22:44:34 we need motherboard design what can be made easily at home 22:44:44 Ahh 22:44:47 * kc5tja agrees. 22:45:02 kc5tja and I once discussed a poor man's desktop computer.. I definitely like the idea 22:45:10 and all cards ISA 22:45:11 a forth computer, with a forth os, with the humane interface :D 22:45:34 but most expensive part is CRT and HDD :((( 22:45:35 ISA is a bad bus design. There are significantly better ways to design a bus architecture than ISA. 22:45:48 and no way to cheap them down :(( 22:45:55 HDD is dirt cheap; a simple IDE interface is trivial to implement (no DMA though). 22:46:05 but reuse of exitsing boards ? 22:46:21 You still have ISA boards? 22:46:28 They cannot be found anywhere here. 22:46:58 here many people refrain from buying PIV because of ISA modems and other exotic boards 22:47:08 like VCR streamer boards 22:47:17 Interesting. 22:47:24 'ArVid' - archiver on video 22:48:01 You just can't find ISA cards here anymore, except perhaps used ones from ancient computers, where the traces are all oxidized and almost certainly wouldn't work again. 22:48:56 hey, here poor but straight-handed men use things to utter trash condition 22:49:24 i seen many TV/radio/fridges from 60's 22:50:03 why not move the next step up? 22:50:14 since ISA are on their way to extinction 22:50:31 You folks must be getting everything we Americans don't want apparently; I haven't seen an ISA card in almost a decade, and the only thing from the 60s that I've seen around here is the occasional '68 Ford Mustang Fastback. 22:50:44 thin: Cost is one. 22:51:12 As I understand it, Russia's economy isn't nearly as good as our own or the EU's, though I also understand it's (slowly!) getting better. 22:51:44 Which, frankly, I think is a good thing. I'm utterly sick and tired of America's wastefulness. :( 22:52:06 here at work we even have one 486 ^) 22:52:11 We need a good depression to teach the lard-suckers in this country about conservation and responsibility to others and the environment. 22:52:32 you get it soon :) 22:52:46 yeah there was a depression, nobody paid attention :P 22:52:51 I have a 486DX laptop with 8MB of RAM and a 200MB harddrive. And I still have my Amiga 500, 7MHz 68000 microprocessor, with 3MB of RAM (yes, 3) and 120MB harddrive. Does that count? :) 22:52:56 er 22:53:00 not depression, slight recession 22:53:25 Well, with the rate at which totalitarianism is growing in this country, especially the unification of church and state, I fully predict Civil War II to erupt within 50 to 75 years. 22:53:58 But of course, our military is so powerful, we, the people, are utterly powerless to fight against the Federal government. 22:54:08 shmucks thrown in Euro to destabilize finances and catch some goldfish in muddy water, if not bloody 22:54:59 here $ is falling and loses trust 22:55:12 reading scientific american today, I'm trying to decide if I should be more scared of the totalitarianism or of a bio-weapon 22:55:28 Bio-weapon, definitely. 22:55:33 everything loses trust but 'kalash' 22:55:36 which is why it's imperative to develop space technologies and get off planet! 22:55:40 But totalitarianism is high on my list too. 22:55:56 * kc5tja agrees. 22:56:36 there are some projects that may have a good chance of getting offplanet in the next few years 22:56:44 the artemis project for one 22:56:57 Is that the refinement of the Orion project? 22:57:02 Using fusion instead of fission? 22:57:06 nope 22:57:22 the artemis project is only concerned with getting a colonization on the moon 22:57:28 a colony on the moon i mean 22:57:35 a self-sustaining colony 22:57:52 it's a non-profit organization 22:58:05 I don't have any hope for it then. 22:58:10 no matter in space or at Earth , totalitarism will be going w/ people untill they make selves better :) 22:59:14 Serg_Penguin: For small groups of people (e.g., a city to a county, perhaps), totalitarianism is the most efficient form of government there is. Beyond that, it breaks down unless VERY, VERY carefully managed, and the leader has the benefit of the group as a whole in mind at all times. 22:59:15 thin: off planet just seems like a red herring. 22:59:31 like someone buying a new house, because they didn't want to clean the old one. 22:59:51 kc5tja: actually, i'm wrong. it's a commercial venture 23:00:13 thin: If it's commercial, then it has some potential. 23:00:15 kc5tja: but it's also volunteer based.. they've also done quite a bit of resarch and compilation of a lot of information 23:00:51 a7r_: Historical evidence suggests that when man was exploring new frontiers, crime is at an all-time low, hunger and poverty virtually non-existant, etc. 23:01:07 a7r_: The drive to go into space alleviates two problems: crime rates, and over-population. 23:01:17 And the severely diminishing energy reserves on this planet. 23:01:38 a7r_: anarchy will be able to exist because space is so vast. people won't have to let others dominate them, steal money from them, etc 23:05:46 kc5tja: but I think that is simply the bliss of booming times.. that type of thing comes crashing down when the boom stops.. although I don't know how that'd work out in an area like space. 23:06:50 Exactly. People have jobs, economy is good, and there is a steady flow of new resources that can be taken advantage of. 23:07:19 Space is rife with new opportunities for new sources of energy (solar power on the moon will be IMMENSELY more powerful than solar power here, because it lacks an atmosphere, for example). 23:32:34 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 23:37:26 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 23:37:41 soap`: howdy clean feeling 23:43:02 Hi. I come bringing tidings of fresh-smelling pine fragrance to all. 23:47:09 Well, I'm off to bed. 23:47:21 come back soon! :D 23:47:25 ;) 23:47:25 heh 23:47:26 hehe 23:47:33 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:51:51 --- quit: thin ("sleep") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.05.27