00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.01.08
00:01:55 <kc5tja> Well, I think I'm going to bed.
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00:10:39 <Serg> hi !
00:16:28 <Robert> Hi :)
00:16:35 <Robert> brb, switching back to 2.4
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00:34:18 <cleverdra> OK, I will soon switch back to OpenBSD.
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00:34:34 <cleverdra> Hopefully, isforth will follow.
01:02:54 <I440r> isforth works in freebsd
01:02:58 <I440r> with linux emulation
01:03:10 <I440r> a friend of mine has it working there
01:03:14 <I440r> and he made no changes to isforth
01:03:36 <I440r> i have no idea what needs setting/installing tho
01:03:54 <I440r> use gentoo. its good :P
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10:18:47 <ASau> Dobryjj vecher!
10:21:36 <kc5tja> re
10:22:59 <ASau> I've got good news.
10:23:19 <kc5tja> What's that?
10:23:25 <ASau> Silently, step by step Forth gets its niche!
10:23:58 <ASau> I've found that nnCron is rather popular software.
10:24:15 <ASau> Also nnBackup.
10:24:37 <kc5tja> nnCron?
10:24:56 <ASau> That's a scheduler for Windows.
10:25:03 <kc5tja> Ahh
10:25:13 <kc5tja> What niche are you seeing for Forth?
10:25:17 <ASau> Written by Nickolas Nemtsev.
10:25:42 <ASau> Scripting like this.
10:26:47 <ASau> Of course, it's strange to see Forth in such an application, but it is.
10:27:20 <kc5tja> Forth is also extensively used in astronautical applications too.
10:27:39 <ASau> At first, it works.
10:28:36 <ASau> I don't say that Forth should be nowhere except my examples.
10:28:50 <ASau> Just a success story.
10:28:59 <kc5tja> I'm just saying that it's a language full of niches, but no general acceptance.  :)
10:29:11 <ASau> I agree.
10:29:12 <kc5tja> Which is a rather curious attribute for a language to have.  :)
10:32:34 <ASau> If you're interested, http://www.nncron.ru/
10:33:34 <kc5tja> I don't run Windows, but if I ever end up with a programmable chip development system for my computer, I'll probably have to get a copy.
10:35:23 <ASau> I was surprised when I've seen "use nnCron" recommends on our campus phorum.
10:42:43 <warpzero> huh
10:42:47 <warpzero> its a conversation
10:50:12 <kc5tja> :)
10:52:11 <kc5tja> Oh well.  Back to FS/Forth design.
11:12:09 <warpzero> Oh well. Back to urmom.
11:18:02 <Herkamire> what's the unix utility to expand stuffit files?
11:20:51 <kc5tja> Herkamire: I didn't know there was one.
11:20:59 <kc5tja> warpzero: That was inappropriate.
11:21:22 <warpzero> kc5tja: Highly.
11:21:32 <kc5tja> Yes.  Highly.  Please don't do that again.
11:22:03 * MysticOne stretches
11:22:04 <MysticOne> man ...
11:22:13 <MysticOne> I'm really hating ad-hoc mode
11:22:39 <kc5tja> Ad-hoc 'mode'?
11:22:45 <warpzero> kc5tja: yeah man the world will end if i make bad urmom jokes
11:22:58 <warpzero> MysticOne: no base station?
11:23:19 <MysticOne> kc5tja: on 802.11b
11:23:27 <MysticOne> warpzero: got a few places where I didn't want an AP ...
11:23:43 <MysticOne> and the cards have taken it upon themselves to ignore the settings I give to them and to randomly connect to a different network that they can't really connect to
11:23:51 <MysticOne> great fun! :)
11:24:03 <MysticOne> kc5tja: it's a way to use 802.11b without an access point
11:24:05 <MysticOne> peer-to-peer
11:24:27 <Herkamire> MysticOne: what device are you using?
11:24:41 <MysticOne> Herkamire: some prism2 cards
11:25:28 <kc5tja> warpzero: No, only your continued existance in this channel.  :-)  The occasional joke now and then is OK, but with you, it is non-stop.
11:25:34 <kc5tja> It gets sickening after a while.
11:26:30 <warpzero> :(
11:27:04 <warpzero> Juz cuz I act like im 12 poeple hate me sheesh wtf.
11:27:17 <kc5tja> There are other ways of cracking jokes without insulting personal lineage, referring to sexually explicit acts, or otherwise being lude and crude.
11:27:39 <MysticOne> yeah, this is at least the FORTH time he's asked you to stop!
11:27:40 <MysticOne> hahahaha
11:27:41 <MysticOne> so funny
11:27:43 <MysticOne> okay, not really
11:27:46 <warpzero> lolz
11:27:52 <kc5tja> No, it's only the first.
11:27:59 <MysticOne> kc5tja: it was a joke :)
11:28:03 <MysticOne> forth... forth...
11:28:05 <MysticOne> get it?
11:28:07 * kc5tja kickbans MysticOne for that one.
11:28:09 <warpzero> Are you sure I think you've told me to stop before.
11:28:11 <MysticOne> hehehe
11:29:11 <kc5tja> warpzero: Probably not me.  I don't rmemeber at least.  And if I don't remember, then it probably means either I didn't do it, OR, it was long enough ago that I felt it isn't becoming an endemic problem.
11:29:51 <kc5tja> I don't kickban a person unless i have to tell them to stop something very often.
11:29:57 <warpzero> Heh.
11:30:18 <kc5tja> E.g., I440r and I get into massively heated battles here on the channel.  But it's so rare that we do that, I don't give much thought.
11:30:30 <warpzero> At least I don't spam those stupid like mirc-color things.
11:30:32 <kc5tja> I normally leave the channel before I decide to kickban someone.
11:32:33 <warpzero> IMHO the world isn't nearly rude or crude enough.
11:36:12 * MysticOne kills warpzero 
11:36:13 <MysticOne> die
11:36:17 * MysticOne feels mean today
11:36:18 <warpzero> why
11:36:19 <MysticOne> :)
11:36:29 <warpzero> ill kill you back
11:36:38 <warpzero> and then make bad urmom jokes over your dead body
11:36:38 <MysticOne> oh wait... you said rude and crude
11:36:39 <MysticOne> not cruel
11:36:50 <warpzero> Sheesh.
12:03:30 <Herkamire> I got the Palm V I got for free a few months ago working with linux :)
12:04:15 <Herkamire> it was a bit of a pain, but I wrote a script to convert my address book into a CSV file so I could import that to the palm
12:04:40 <kc5tja> Cool.
12:05:07 <Herkamire> yeah :) now I need to put some good software on it.
12:05:35 <kc5tja> :)
12:05:58 <Herkamire> like a newer version of the calendar program, astroids and quartus
12:06:39 <Herkamire> is there a free forth for palm? or just quartus?
12:07:50 <kc5tja> Quartus Forth is the first.  I hear DragonForth is available now too as GPL, but I haven't used it yet.
12:07:54 <kc5tja> I don't know how good it is.
12:09:16 <Herkamire> wow... find ~ -name "*.prc" turned up a lot. mostly games though
12:09:26 <Herkamire> ppforth
12:23:49 <I440r> you can assume im not here to argue at the moment :)
12:25:58 <I440r> do all palm's use the same processor ?
12:27:35 <kc5tja> Not any more.
12:27:41 <kc5tja> Modern Palms use StrongARM processors
12:28:04 <kc5tja> But all have 68332 compatibility.
12:28:34 <kc5tja> The earlier Palms all used the 68332, but the newer Palms have 68332-emulation in software.  (Ironically, the emulation is faster than the hardware.  Gotta love RISC!)
12:30:20 <Herkamire> hehe :)
12:30:32 <Herkamire> ok, looks like I've gotta find qed
12:54:40 <Herkamire> how fast can you transfer data through a tipical COM1 serial port?
12:55:41 <Herkamire> 9600 baud is normal right? that translates to ~1KB/sec ?
13:06:10 <kc5tja> Depends on cable length.
13:06:23 <kc5tja> I've done 57600bps with acceptable bit error rates.
13:06:52 <kc5tja> If I didn't have the lumbering overhead of Linux to deal with, I am pretty sure I could max out the UARTs at 115200bps.
13:11:16 <Herkamire> cool
13:11:46 <Herkamire> yay :) ppforth works :)
13:11:56 <Herkamire> now if I could only find a doc editor
13:14:39 * kc5tja thinks he just found his ideal USB problem solution.
13:14:46 <kc5tja> The Cypress CY7C63400 chip.
13:15:22 <kc5tja> It is basically a 16-bit CY16 RISC CPU with a bunch of I/O ports and USB host controllers and device endpoints all integrated onto one 100-pin chip.
13:15:56 <Herkamire> what usb problem?
13:16:10 <kc5tja> And the memory architecture of the CY16 used in this chip makes supporting Forth BLOCKs easy -- $8000-$9FFF and $A000-$BFFF are both 'paged' memory spaces, which hook up to external RAM chips in 4K increments.
13:16:29 <kc5tja> The problem is that until now, the only USB host controller interface I could ever find were integrated into Intel motherboard chipsets.
13:16:42 <kc5tja> This chip lets me use a 1MHz 6502 if I wanted to.  :D
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13:25:33 <Herkamire> nice :)
13:34:31 <kc5tja> Yeah.
13:35:03 <kc5tja> And what's cool is the CY16 onboard is freely programmable.  It has 4KB of ROM (well, 4Kx16, so 8K really), and 16KB of RAM on-chip, with up to 48KB available off-chip.
13:35:43 <kc5tja> Put a Forth engine on that module, and hook it to the rest of ForthBox (itself running a Forth-capable CPU), and you have a mad-cool system!
13:40:03 <chandler> where did you hear about dragonforth gpl?
13:44:27 <kc5tja> I remember seeing a quick reference to it on comp.lang.forth a while back.
13:44:42 <kc5tja> Since I wasn't particularly interested in DragonForth at the time, I didn't pay much attention to it.
13:46:18 <chandler> ah
13:46:27 <chandler> well quartus works for me - the only non-free part is the standalone app generator
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14:06:25 <I440r> could you write one of your own ?
14:06:38 <I440r> chandler ?
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15:50:07 * arke is back (gone 17:52:52)
15:50:12 <arke> hi
15:50:16 <kc5tja> re
15:50:25 <arke> ^_^
15:50:31 <arke> hehe
15:50:35 <arke> this was interesting
15:50:47 <Sonarman> ^_9
15:50:49 <Sonarman> scarface
15:51:09 <arke> my chemistry teacher couldn't think of a Xe-based compound which obeyed the Lewis system ... I already thought of 2 ^)^
15:51:11 <arke> ^_^
15:52:23 <Sonarman> wow arke. you'd better start preparing your Nobel-prize acceptance speech
15:52:25 <Robert> omg, ur teh m4d chemiast.
15:52:29 <Robert> Nobel prize coming 
15:52:39 <Robert> Heh.
15:52:43 <Sonarman> :-)
15:52:52 <Robert> Well, I should go to bed now.
15:53:07 <Robert> If I don't, _my_ chemistry teacher will rip my head off tomorrow.
15:54:19 <arke> Well, the two I thought of are XeO4 and XeC2, but I'm sure theres more.
15:55:23 <arke> I wonder if maybe Xe2XXH4 could be possible... I would need to think of XX though/
15:55:38 <arke> some combinator that doesn't screw up the electron count.
15:55:44 <arke> H8, actually
15:56:21 <arke> Xe2H8 can't work as it is right now... it would be separate XeH4 which don't follow the lewis system and can't bind.
15:56:38 <arke> I was thinking possibly Carbon, but I don't know if that is gonna work.
15:56:39 <slava> hi
15:56:42 <arke> slava: hi
15:57:05 * kc5tja doesn't even know what the Lewis system is yet.
15:57:15 <kc5tja> I'm sure after this semester, though, I will.
15:57:55 <arke> Oh, its really easy.
15:58:08 <arke> its an approximate model illustrating bonds and idle electrons in a compound
15:59:10 <imaginator> Chemistry is like a different language.
15:59:46 <arke> heh, yeah.
15:59:48 <imaginator> Just like the various maths are different languages, or sublanguages.
16:00:34 <arke>  4453 ?        S     77:24 dosbox
16:00:34 <arke>  4454 ?        S      0:00 dosbox
16:00:34 <arke>  4455 ?        S      1:11 dosbox
16:00:34 <arke>  4456 ?        S    918:39 dosbox
16:00:34 <arke>  4457 ?        S     24:32 dosbox
16:00:37 <arke>  8988 ?        S    120:50 gaim
16:00:39 <arke>  9041 ?        S     13:40 xmms
16:00:41 <arke> thats bad, right?
16:01:08 <imaginator> All asleep?
16:01:24 <imaginator> I wonder why the ?
16:01:33 <imaginator> Does your kernel not match your ps?
16:02:05 <imaginator> arke: what kind of system are you running?
16:02:28 <arke> 2.4.21 (no, you may not get a local account ^_^)
16:03:07 <arke> Odd.
16:03:24 <arke>  374:22 for the first X, but the second X is only 1:23
16:04:30 <imaginator> heh
16:04:30 <arke> fuuuck....
16:04:43 <arke> that things draining CPU power mad
16:04:44 <imaginator> I wouldn't want an account.
16:04:48 <arke> WTH!?
16:05:10 <kc5tja> What thing is draining CPU power?
16:07:25 <ASau> I'm back.
16:08:53 <arke> my first X server iws
16:09:00 <arke> the second one is tiny, even when I switch to it
16:10:22 <slava> are there forths with lisp-like cons cells?
16:11:01 <arke> joy
16:11:56 <slava> i know about joy, i was asking about forths :)
16:12:19 <arke> make your own, its not hard ^_^
16:12:25 <slava> since forth is quite minimalist, i was wondering what a minimalist implementation of a heap for cons cells and a gc for them looked like :)
16:12:30 <arke> you could easily extend pygmy to do it
16:12:58 <slava> i'm thinking of porting my interpreter to native code (right now its hosted on the JVM) and i'm looking around for ideas on coding a heap specially for cons cells.
16:14:39 <ASau> Slava, look at Taygeta. I've seen minimalist Lisp-in-Forth somewhere. I think it's been there.
16:15:19 <imaginator> I'm playing around with copying machine code generated by a C compiler/assembler.
16:16:02 <imaginator> I use labels like foo: code_that_does_something;  bar:  and then copy between &&foo and &&bar.
16:16:18 <slava> ASau, cool
16:16:31 <imaginator> I have registers, and make everything volatile and it seems to work.
16:16:33 <slava> btw has joy ever been used for "real" programs?
16:17:00 <ASau> I've not heard about this.
16:17:21 <ASau> It seems Joy is experimental only.
16:18:30 <imaginator> Joy doesn't seem as efficient as Forth.
16:19:50 <imaginator> I like that it has lists though.
16:20:36 <arke> Uugh
16:20:47 <arke> I'm gonna start killing everything that I don't know what it is
16:21:05 <arke> or actually, maybe I should just reboot ... but that would be a WIMP way
16:23:16 <imaginator> uptime 500 days.  exploited 200 times.
16:24:06 <imaginator> :)
16:24:45 <imaginator> I used to be so interested in uptime.  My friends and I would compete.
16:26:10 <imaginator> Last night I asked my friend to run my machine code experiment.
16:26:17 <imaginator> He said it core dumped.
16:26:23 <imaginator> He was using OpenBSD.
16:26:50 <imaginator> Sonarman, I thought about it, and then remembered that they make as many pages non-executable as possible.
16:26:59 <imaginator> so
16:27:22 <imaginator> Sonarman, I use mmap and it worked.
16:27:30 <imaginator> Why must I be cursed by autocomplete.
16:27:39 * imaginator goes to shut it off (sorry)
16:28:10 <kc5tja> Heh
16:28:20 <kc5tja> Well, I'm getting hungry, and I need some foodstuffs.
16:28:25 <kc5tja> So, I'll be afk for a while.
16:28:51 <arke> Ok
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16:38:19 <Sonarman> why the hell was imaginator talking to me
16:38:22 <Sonarman> (?)
16:38:37 <imaginator> sorry, about that.  I was trying to write so
16:38:50 <Sonarman> ok :)
16:39:01 <imaginator> But everytime I used uppercase s with it, it replace it on <Return> with your name.
16:39:34 <Sonarman> sounds like a pretty aggravating "feature"
16:41:56 <imaginator> I don't always like xchat.
16:42:15 <imaginator> The earlier versions didn't have such annoying features enabled by default.
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16:46:30 <I440r> lol this channel is a hive of inactivity :)
16:46:55 <Sonarman> let me get back to you on that
16:47:09 <I440r> :)
16:47:12 <slava> I440r, we're all coding :)
16:47:34 <Sonarman> arke: what about XeF4? :)
16:48:14 <I440r> yea right - pull the other one :P
16:48:28 <I440r> err xfe4 isnt in here :P
16:48:42 <slava> i think my game's embedded interpreter is pretty neat. the read/eval/print loop is done inside an OpenGL console pane :)
17:13:09 <arke> Sonarman: No. Xe would be overloaded with two extra electrons.
17:13:32 <Sonarman> arke: look in #c4th
17:14:07 <arke> Oh, he's there, I know, I'm talking about the actual element XeF4 ^__^
17:14:10 <slava> and code can read from the opengl console like a stream despite the fact the game has an event loop of sorts. this is done using continuations
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19:12:30 * warpzero is away: sheesh
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20:56:07 <arke> savannah is down YET AGAIN
20:56:10 <arke> what the FUCK!?
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21:34:17 <arke> hovil: please fix savannah? :)
21:35:54 <arke> ANYBODY fix savannah?
21:35:56 <arke> please?
21:35:58 <arke> aaarbghksjb
21:59:36 * arke is away: good night
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22:16:43 <Serg> hi !
22:17:03 <Serg> DNS died once again :(( provider sucks !
22:19:12 <Serg> anyone, please, lookup for me www.void.ru (it has a list of proxies)
22:20:00 <Sonarman> 194.226.220.3
22:22:49 <ayrnieu> serg - public DNS servers exist -- and you can use a local named to save yourself from immediately feeling YA DNS Death, after a while.
22:23:07 <Serg> TNX but it did not help - they have weird setup and don't open w/o DNS
22:23:27 <Serg> hmmm..... please point me at one and some RTFM on the topic
22:23:47 * Serg runs Win2k for damn commercial reasons
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23:14:55 <Serg> can one give me a public DNS ?
23:15:04 <Serg> i'm compleetly hosed ^((
23:15:47 <kc5tja> Maybe dyndns.org?
23:19:32 * Serg is opening slo-o-o-o-w via proxy
23:22:59 <Serg> i ask Google, but find only free DNS hostings, not DNS'es open for everyone to lookup
23:23:26 <kc5tja> Hmm, I must be confused about what it is you're looking for then.
23:23:35 <kc5tja> But, it's late for me as well.
23:23:38 * kc5tja is going to bed.
23:24:20 <Serg> hmm.. provider's DNS died and i look what to feed into DNS fields of my network setup
23:25:11 <kc5tja> :(
23:25:16 <kc5tja> I wish I could help.
23:25:25 <kc5tja> Anyway, 73 -- goodnight!
23:25:30 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
23:26:05 <ayrnieu> Serg - take a look at http://www.opennic.unrated.net/public_servers.html
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