00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.06.01 01:07:20 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-022-174.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 01:15:36 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 01:15:49 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 03:11:52 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@92pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 03:56:21 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-89.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 04:26:40 --- quit: KB1FYR (Remote closed the connection) 04:30:01 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 05:02:50 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:10:12 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 05:10:30 heh, cookies 05:43:25 --- quit: saon|smgl ("brb") 05:43:57 --- join: saon_ (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:44:11 --- nick: saon_ -> saon|smgl 06:05:31 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 06:30:30 --- join: PoppaVic (~pete@0-1pool111-35.nas12.pittsfield-township2.mi.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:31:07 Any life? I've got a dictionary-type issue I need a logic-check on. 06:31:57 PoppaVic, haven't i seen you somewhere before? 06:32:09 sure, I been on freenode for years now 06:32:16 ah, #c, okay 06:32:18 openbios, forth, mostly C 06:32:22 knew i recognized the name 06:32:26 yup 06:32:38 what's your question? 06:33:00 Writing a module for use between lexer and parser: got pissed off at lex/yacc and I always liked forth-dictionaries... 06:33:31 Looking at chicken/egg init issues, and I THINK I have a solution I'd like yah to consider as workable 06:34:14 The 'dictionary' structure manages all name-struct, but we do NOT have a base-voc at startup.. 06:34:48 how would you go about that? 06:35:08 without a base vocab, where do you build your words from? 06:35:17 it's all golden in theory, I'm using vectables for funcs, but wait a sec 06:35:56 what I've done is hide a static, internal "wordlist"... Until the user declares a new voc, anything new will end up in there. 06:36:11 that sounds similar to what we did with openbbios 06:36:33 so, we have a "bootstrap" voc w/o a name that can't be user-referenced once they declare their first voc 06:36:53 with the difference that you need to build a dictionary the first time, using the static hidden one but that one goes away later ob 06:36:57 s/ob/on/ 06:37:03 Stepan: likely, the solutions seem damned limited and I did not like the idea of a voc managing it's own name 06:37:19 it's own name? 06:38:04 well, this whole thing is being written with a fist of structs, with the assump that someone, somewhere is gonna' find a way to route certain structs to flash or whatever - just to be irksome. 06:39:02 SO, the Dictionary struct will manage names, order-stack and tails to lists to track heads, vocs, etc. 06:39:22 the names are disembodied so we can reuse quite well 06:39:41 the heads are disembodied from names AND bodies 06:40:41 And, instead of worrying about contiguous memory all the time, all of these elements are stored in databases or xrefed FROM the element in the dbase 06:41:38 heh.. this all began with my Metabuilder project that requires a Minish(ell) and I wanted extensibility and "namespaces" ala' vocs/words 06:42:35 Stepan: but, this init - the chicken/egg issue - this makes some sense then, I presume? 06:43:42 I'm of the opinion, as I add the code, that this then allows for a master wordlist that is ALWAYS visible if someidiot has not overridden the name. 06:44:25 Further, I'm tempted to extend the init to add the order-stack ops. ONLY, ALSO, etc 06:45:03 however, that may be negative - in that you could NOT set the order to see those foremost 06:45:43 Comments? SUggestions? ideas? 06:46:29 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 06:46:47 --- quit: saon|smgl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:47:19 Ideally, the user had BETTER declare what he considers the baseline voc/namespace immediately. BUT... seems like there is a trifle of leeway 06:55:28 Comments? Suggestions? ideas? 06:55:34 Anything? 06:57:17 hmm... weird idea... Almost makes sense, too... 06:59:23 Stepan: you awake? Heads up, damnit.. What if that bootstrap wordlist is changed to a 'keywords' Voc/Namespace? 07:04:26 sec.. i was away, flashing some uControllers 07:05:40 np 07:06:46 the init issue makes sense indeed 07:06:48 I dunno enough about embedded sys and such, does Flash even HAVE a malloc-like support? 07:07:08 Stepan: so, the new idea is an enhancement that makes sense? 07:07:23 in openbios I have a flat dictionary and I plug the stuff like ONLY, FORTH etc on top of that later on. 07:07:51 yep.. That's sorta' common, particularly once they added the "wordlist" idea 07:07:59 so anything that is declared before dictionaries are enabled is the baseline voc 07:08:11 ahh.. 07:08:18 so you're not using wordlists? 07:08:29 well, prolly not as you think of them 07:08:40 I'm using a struct... 07:09:20 short paste here..? 07:09:51 struct wlist_ 07:09:52 { 07:09:52 uint total; /* members: total content */ 07:09:52 uint unique :1, /* flag: never overload */ 07:09:52 icase :1; /* flag: ignore name-case */ 07:09:52 Body *Wprevious; /* node: LL(time) prior wlist-body */ 07:09:54 Head *Hlast; /* LL(tail): LL(time) last header */ 07:09:56 VtWL *does; /* behaviors: disembodied */ 07:09:59 opaque_t *words[MODULA]; /* threads: threaded containers */ 07:10:02 }; 07:10:50 and, a 'voc' is just a normal body+wlist construct 07:11:09 (I tend to think of voc/namespace the same way) 07:11:20 --- join: saon (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:11:24 Hi. 07:11:37 ALTHOUGH, yeah: the "namespace" is also the voc-stack 07:11:44 lo, Robert 07:11:48 :) 07:13:30 Bear in mind, Stepan: this is IN c FOR c in a way to promote an interface to lexing/parsing which can mean interpreters, compilers, scripts, pcode/token-code, etc 07:14:19 Methinks, once I finish this goddamned module, the chances of my writing purely C anymore is gonna' be seriously limited. 07:14:39 --- join: saon_ (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:14:45 wb 07:14:52 --- nick: saon -> saon|smgl 07:14:59 --- nick: saon_ -> saon 07:15:15 yay computer euphoria 07:15:32 pretty soon i'm gonna need a network switch for this room 07:15:36 yer head-op needs to talk to pragma and adopt candide 07:15:37 :) 07:15:42 saon: Did you get a new one+? 07:16:39 robert, no, it's been here a while, moved stuff around so i will additionally have my IM and IRC convos on a nice text screen 07:16:46 --- join: I440r_ (~foo@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 07:16:52 ugh im 07:16:55 my boxes running X11 can stay that way for reading, browsing, movies, etc 07:17:31 and then i have a nice text box for communication 07:17:37 I can't live w/o X11 and a couple termwin and xchat/browsers/etc anymore 07:18:12 I still wanna' puke when I approach WRITING a gui, but I live in it 07:19:19 --- join: saon_ (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:19:48 i like using screen and the CLI, but, when i want to really browse stuff or watch a movie, i can't. sure i _could_ use mplayer -vo aa, but, it's not the same 07:20:03 wtf? one of my computers is going on irc without telling me =/ 07:20:22 I hate 'screen' - CLI and modules/libs are what I write, but I live in X11/macosx 07:20:45 ack, brb 07:20:47 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 07:20:47 --- quit: saon_ (Client Quit) 07:21:48 --- join: saon__ (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:21:56 --- nick: saon__ -> saon 07:22:02 there we go 07:22:11 all better 07:22:42 anyways, i prefer to use cli and screen for the most part because X11 is so freaking huge 07:22:52 bah 07:23:09 I use CLI by the ton, but I live in termwin and xchat 07:23:25 I never liked the curses-like stuff 07:23:47 i use badwm as my wm and then have 4 xterms open 07:24:19 plus a small one in the corner for executing commands 07:24:32 The prob with gui is the api... ANd almost no one will agre to guidelines-stds 07:25:30 Until the godamned gnomes ruined it,Sawfish was nice. If I was in linux, I'd be running KDE just because it works 07:25:46 ack, i hate kde 07:25:55 too much fluff for my taste 07:26:09 even fluxbox is a bit much for me most of the time 07:26:12 I don't own an amber-monitor anymore, either 07:26:36 of course, we could return to teletypes, too 07:26:46 heh 07:27:01 but I am NOT writing to punchcards or tape 07:28:05 hmm, Stepan - you know? there may even be a better root-voc... 07:28:35 particularly seeing why I started this mess 07:29:16 windowmaker! 07:29:18 all the way 07:29:22 :) 07:29:25 not in my life 07:30:36 Stepan: since the whole reason is predicated on a minimal-shell supporting a metabuilder and such.... why not use "ABI" as the root? 07:31:32 in fact... I'm still pondering this: why MUST a new voc be defined within a voc? 07:31:54 --- quit: saon|smgl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:32:13 I can see you may WANT it there... But is it a necessity? 07:42:07 Man, I am not seeing much activity here - is that typical? Is forth really dead? 07:42:07 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:49:20 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 07:58:14 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:58:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 08:02:20 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-32-107.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:04:28 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 08:06:51 --- quit: saon (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:22:07 --- join: virl (anonymous@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 08:51:15 --- join: bbls (~icfarcas@80.97.121.4) joined #forth 08:51:23 hello 08:53:48 hI. 08:53:49 Hi. 08:54:13 hi Robert 09:34:45 --- quit: madwork ("*frotz*") 09:35:04 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 10:14:26 what's the name of that program that shows the syscalls? 10:14:50 strace ? 10:20:05 --- part: bbls left #forth 10:21:01 ahh :) thankyou 10:23:06 * Robert is suprised he remembers the name of a program he has only seen used, once, like two years ago. 11:24:56 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:29:41 --- join: saon_ (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:09:16 --- quit: vitaminmoo ("brb") 12:18:20 --- quit: madwork (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:18:20 --- quit: nanstm (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:18:21 --- quit: OrngeTide (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:23:59 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 12:23:59 --- join: nanstm (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-32-107.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:23:59 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 12:36:30 --- join: vitaminmoo (~vitaminmo@dsl-95-113.peak.org) joined #forth 12:41:15 lol 13:10:12 lull 13:52:36 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:58:09 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:59:31 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 14:13:50 --- quit: KB1FYR (Remote closed the connection) 14:18:25 --- join: KB1FYR|LT (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 14:21:38 --- quit: saon_ ("Lost terminal") 14:21:38 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 14:33:28 --- join: pseudoshroom (~schallee@lando.cs.byu.edu) joined #forth 14:35:26 Hi. 14:35:59 hey 14:36:48 Have to work 7 hours today, starting in 20 minutes. Adios" 14:57:55 Working from midnight to 7am? that's hard... 14:57:58 *gg* 14:58:13 Hard? 14:58:23 Sounds much better than having to GET UP at 7am 15:01:55 bah 15:02:03 * tathi likes his 6am-2pm shifts :) 15:02:18 Do you go to bed before or after them? 15:02:41 :) before. I'm a morning person. 15:03:19 Oh. 15:03:22 I wish I were. 15:03:43 No matter what you think of the world, compatibility is a good thing. 15:04:04 hi all 15:04:10 hi crc 15:04:12 Hi, Robert 15:04:14 er 15:04:15 Hi, crc 15:04:21 Hi Robert ;) 15:04:24 hi tathi 15:07:58 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:09:08 --- join: saon|smgl (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:10:01 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 15:12:43 Heh. 15:12:55 Fyr = beacon :) 15:43:41 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 15:45:12 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-89.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 15:46:17 Hi Topaz 15:50:50 lo 16:12:10 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 16:19:23 --- part: pseudoshroom left #forth 16:46:52 --- quit: OrngeTide ("seeya") 18:01:17 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 20:24:03 --- join: asymptote (~dmesg@68.48.8.92) joined #forth 20:44:16 --- quit: asymptote ("Free the mallocs!") 20:46:44 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-133-124.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:55:12 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 20:55:26 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 20:58:28 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 21:02:16 --- quit: KB1FYR|LT (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:45:40 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:19:25 I just volunteered to join the Summer of Code project as a freenode python coder 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.06.01