00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.04.03 00:25:24 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7c0b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 00:33:07 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57a7a928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 00:33:35 --- quit: brx (Connection timed out) 00:39:37 --- quit: DocPlatypus ("Leaving") 00:43:38 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7ab50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 00:45:55 --- join: brx``` (n=brx@p57A7BEBA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 00:48:57 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:52:23 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:58:56 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7bd2d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:01:30 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:06:15 --- quit: brx``` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:09:35 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7a610.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:21:19 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57a7a33a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:22:14 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 01:24:59 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:28:29 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:29:06 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7a277.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:42:50 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:45:46 --- join: tattrdkat (n=virsys@or-71-54-193-76.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 01:45:49 --- quit: tattrdkat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:48:47 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/ayrnieu) joined #forth 01:49:29 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a79ccb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:51:12 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57a79b29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:58:43 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:01:28 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A79BBA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 02:05:43 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:09:32 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 02:10:54 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:17:22 --- quit: yumehito_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:20:24 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:24:21 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7954e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 03:31:19 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-65-71-125-213.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 03:32:20 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 03:32:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 04:13:15 --- quit: nighty_ (Remote closed the connection) 04:20:26 --- quit: JasonWoof ("leaving") 04:27:47 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:31:05 --- join: vatic (n=chatzill@pool-162-83-233-103.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 04:33:36 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a78fd6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 04:35:21 an IRC client in postscript: http://jeffz.name/gs/ 04:35:36 oh wow, really? 04:35:44 ps has got to be one of my favorite script languages heh 04:36:56 awesome. 04:43:54 I used it briefly, with glk, and not otherwise. Why do you like it so much? 04:44:26 that's pretty amusing 04:44:28 there are a few reasons... 04:44:51 among others, i can do cool things like http://caladan.nanosoft.ca/c4/ccorner/5.php with it 04:46:38 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57A7C44A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 04:49:21 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:55:07 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 04:55:24 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:14:20 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Womp.") 05:23:53 Are these equivalent statements? 05:24:12 create falign here 1 floats allot 1.0e f! 05:24:17 create 1 , 05:24:21 ? 05:24:25 :-) 05:27:35 looks about right 05:28:06 eh? no, they're not equivalent 05:28:47 first one stores a float, second one a cell 05:54:43 Quartus: thats' true. I thought equivalent might express something different than "identical." But they both store in the dictionary, right? And I'm smart to have the "falign here" for the float, right? 05:56:10 so are these equivalent? 05:56:23 create align here 1 cells allot 1 ! 05:56:27 create 1 , 05:56:28 ? 05:58:36 Quartus: are you somewhere where you can post/send the latest and greatest of your list code? 06:12:45 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-79d4fa7324815b83) joined #forth 06:13:09 --- nick: brx`` -> brx 06:13:43 First off, CREATE takes a name from the input stream. 06:14:19 Second, CREATE leaves the data-space pointer cell-aligned. 06:14:27 http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpans6.htm#6.1.1000 06:25:21 TreyB: Third? 06:25:43 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:33:04 They produce (or should) the same result. 06:34:12 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 06:38:05 Except that you'd need this for the first one: 06:38:31 CREATE FOO align here 1 cells allot 1 SWAP ! 06:39:45 You could define , thus : , here 1 cells allot ! ; 06:41:08 TreyB: thnx! :-) 06:45:21 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a79216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 07:00:21 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:09:45 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 07:26:22 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-0ecc8a532e575197) joined #forth 07:28:53 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 07:31:32 --- quit: vatic ("*poof*") 07:37:11 --- join: vatic (n=chatzill@pool-162-83-233-103.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 08:05:58 --- join: azekeprofit (n=azekepro@88.204.193.75.metro.online.kz) joined #forth 08:12:23 --- quit: azekeprofit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:12:38 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekepro@88.204.193.75.metro.online.kz) joined #forth 08:29:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 08:50:25 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 08:50:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 08:51:06 think I dropped out a while back. 08:51:41 did I miss anything exciting? 08:55:44 not too much 09:00:15 saw vatic messing with falign. If memory serves, after create the pointer is fully aligned. 09:00:21 so no need. 09:00:34 no harm, either. 09:00:42 it's aligned up to cell boundaries. floats might need more. 09:00:51 so falign _is_ needed 09:01:22 I'd have to check the standard to see if the presence of the float wordset changes the alignment conditions. 09:01:34 it doesn't 09:01:35 that's what I thought, Rather's handbook points out that some FP implementation wouldn't guarantee alignment... 09:02:23 clumsy. That would mean a need to falign the addr returned by the create at each use. 09:02:54 "CREATE does not necessarily leave the data-space pointer aligned for the various floating-point data types." p. 114 09:03:03 or use F, for your float-banging 09:03:22 segher: there's F, ? 09:03:24 Not sure how a f, would help there 09:03:26 hrm you'd still need align then 09:03:33 vatic: well there should be :-) 09:03:38 and it's not a standard word 09:03:48 so just define it, heh 09:03:50 --- quit: ygrek_ (Remote closed the connection) 09:04:05 wouldn't help with aligning creates, though. 09:04:36 fortunately it's a moot point with any major architecture. 09:05:21 any consensus then on how I would say: CREATE 1.0e F, for a create/does> word then? 09:06:11 http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpansa12.htm#A.12.3.5 09:06:16 not hard. : fconstant create falign here >r 1 floats allot r> f! does> falign f@ ; 09:06:31 you could redefine CREATE to call FALIGN if you want 09:06:36 check that, as it's totally off the cuff 09:06:57 go where 09:07:04 you could redefine create to call falign, but the created word still would not 09:07:29 huh? 09:07:43 you'd have to redefine does> also 09:07:49 oh you mean for the DOES> part 09:07:52 : create create falign ; doesn't solve the problem 09:07:52 yeah sure 09:08:04 so redefine DOES> as well ;-) 09:08:27 : DOES> POSTPONE DOES> POSTPONE FALIGN ; IMMEDIATE 09:08:30 tathi: I wonder if Elizabeth Rather knows she's plagarizing DPANS? ;-) 09:08:31 hrm. you'd have to have create invoke does> to fix the initial behaviour as well. 09:08:51 or something 09:08:52 tathi: oh crap yes 09:09:17 so redefine DOES> , and then : CREATE CREATE DOES> ; 09:14:33 fortunately I can't think of an architecture where it would matter, that also uses floats much. 09:15:17 Quartus_: do you have your latest and greatest list code around somewheres? 09:15:22 on PowerPC for example, DP floats that cross page boundaries can fault 09:16:10 some SPARC and MIPS implementations fault for any unaligned float 09:16:39 but yeah in many cases 4-byte aligned DP "just works" 09:17:06 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 09:17:24 --- join: azekeprofit (n=azekepro@88.204.193.75) joined #forth 09:17:24 Vatic, have to be tonight 09:17:24 I owe you a code too 09:17:38 might be simpler to redefine f@ and f! 09:18:57 Quartus_: that's fine. perhaps I'll remind you then? :-) 09:20:29 sure thing. 09:25:09 --- quit: gnomon (Remote closed the connection) 09:28:52 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM001692f57b56.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 09:46:31 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-204-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:50:23 --- nick: brx` -> brx 09:55:59 belatedly -- or you can just add a DOES> part to what you CREATE ,in that case. CREATE falign here 1 floats allot 1.0e f! does> sfalign ( or something) ; 09:56:04 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:08:59 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-644bb31656277a8b) joined #forth 12:27:08 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7b21a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 12:29:59 --- quit: brx (Nick collision from services.) 12:30:00 --- nick: brx` -> brx 12:57:20 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7c837.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 13:04:53 --- quit: ygrek () 13:12:58 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:17:39 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7bef6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 13:22:34 Apropos the earlier discussion about creating aligned floats, I've posted some code: http://forth.pastebin.ca/422935 13:23:04 It crashes, so be careful! Not sure what I don't understand about the create/does> process in this case. 13:23:14 Any hints greatly appreciated! 13:25:25 --- nick: crest_ -> Crest 13:25:35 --- join: ASau (n=user@ggsn2inet8.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 13:26:18 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:39:08 vatic: it looks like you should get rid of the 'here' after 'create falign' in float-wave 13:39:59 tathi: I tried that but still a crash: without the address on the data stack, f! doesn't know where to store... 13:40:00 oh, I see. your definition of F, is wrong. 13:40:44 I think I don't increment the data-space pointer, so I bomb when I try to access wav-val... 13:41:02 it needs to increment some how... 13:43:45 so tathi, CREATE associates the data-space pointer with a symbol. Which words move the pointer? Obviously , does... 13:43:59 ALLOT 13:44:03 allot ( n -- ) \ adds N to the data-space pointer 13:44:24 Good evening, tathi and vatic. 13:44:26 HERE ( -- addr ) \ returns the current value of the data-space pointer 13:44:27 hi ASau 13:44:32 hey ASau! 13:45:17 tathi: thanks, I should just sit down with DPANS and study that. But I'm learning! 13:45:33 so did you fix F, ? 13:50:36 I only see one other problem: you have '1 f+'. 13:51:46 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:51:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 13:54:51 I'm working on it. Thanks for catching the '1 f+' stupidity! :-) 13:55:16 I can take it from here, I think. Thanks again! 13:57:07 I see that ALLOT advances the data-space pointer... :-) 13:57:20 excellent 13:58:31 Hot Damn! It works! 13:58:52 interactivity is brilliant! 14:00:32 this is wonderful, thanks again tathi! 14:02:24 lol 14:02:28 glad you're having fun 14:05:05 I think my mind set is really low-level. I love it when I can type words into Forth and watch the machine work on the stack. 14:05:19 me too 14:06:45 tathi: http://grace.evergreen.edu/~arunc/ check out the Wigout manual... ;-) 14:08:27 biab... 14:15:17 vatic: having fun with audio? 14:38:15 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:40:01 grub_booter: audio? 14:40:20 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 14:40:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 15:11:30 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489C98E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:20:17 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:37:06 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:38:01 --- join: grfrblshntz (n=smee@71.86.192.20) joined #forth 16:09:58 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (n=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-163-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:11:57 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 16:12:11 --- nick: Snoopy_1611 -> Snoopy42 16:16:34 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 16:41:34 --- nick: segher_ -> segher 16:42:01 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7891b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:54:09 --- quit: grfrblshntz ("Bye") 16:56:39 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:48:12 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ggsn2inet8.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 18:01:54 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:14:22 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7beb0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 18:23:04 --- quit: brx` (Connection timed out) 18:37:33 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:49:56 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.13.132) joined #forth 18:57:36 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7ad94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:13:03 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:13:09 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 19:13:28 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:13:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 19:16:34 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7aaad.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:25:06 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:30:17 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7a225.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:46:07 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:52:17 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A79CAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 20:00:37 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:08:52 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 20:19:32 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57a79506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 20:20:48 --- join: vatic_ (n=chatzill@pool-162-83-233-103.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 20:21:09 --- quit: vatic (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 20:21:14 --- nick: vatic_ -> vatic 20:25:10 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:33:10 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A78FAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 20:48:49 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:32:02 --- part: edrx left #forth 21:54:18 --- quit: ASau` ("ERC Version 5.0.1 $Revision: 1.726.2.3 $ (IRC client for Emacs)") 22:26:35 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7c6ac.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 22:35:20 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:41:44 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a7c45c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 22:56:55 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:00:36 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7c115.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:08:19 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57a7c081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:09:11 --- quit: brx (Connection timed out) 23:21:16 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a785b0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:23:57 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:29:32 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:42:17 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 23:57:29 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7b22a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.04.03