00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.01.02 00:21:16 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 00:23:50 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 00:35:35 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 00:55:49 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 00:59:50 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-25-98-242.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 01:42:24 --- join: protist (~protist@243.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 02:35:08 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 02:39:03 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 03:06:03 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host81-132-82-237.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 03:06:03 --- quit: goingretro2 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:54:28 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:10:06 --- join: protist_ (~protist@65.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 04:13:46 --- quit: protist (Read error: Operation timed out) 04:49:13 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 05:01:19 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 05:05:33 --- quit: john_metcalf (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 05:18:06 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 05:20:05 so say the paranthesis lobby 05:20:22 "parenthesis", I guess 05:32:55 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 05:58:40 dzho: what? 05:59:04 dzho: ah i was disconnected and missed part of the conversation 05:59:14 dzho: what do the parenthesis lobby say? 06:21:10 --- quit: regreg2 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:21:26 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 06:22:43 protist_: mumble mumble something resulting of lithping 06:23:02 i'm lisping as we speak 06:23:09 dzho: hehe 06:25:18 protist_: the somewhat disconnected context, such as it is, was from http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/forth/14.01.01 06:27:19 well that provided some, but not all, context 06:28:01 dzho: still don't know how/why you came in that conversation :) 06:28:07 dzho: thanks for the link, though 06:31:31 protist_: no big thing. I was just playing around with the previous comments, and didn't notice how previouslier they were. 06:31:50 gotcha 06:32:45 http://www.pigdog.org/auto/electro_diddle/link/784.html for your amusement 06:33:56 (amusement not guaranteed) 06:33:57 did you write that? 06:34:44 no 06:36:24 protist_: I went looking for http://www.pigdog.org/auto/liberty/link/2853.html and noticed the FORTH article in Mr. Bad's pigdog bibliography 06:36:56 what bothers me a bit...is that FORTH seems like a great target for compilers targetting stack-based vms, yet it is ignored and thus doesn't benefit from the interest 06:37:30 thus people optimize the JVM untiringly...when no sane person would ever directly write JVM code 06:40:03 protist_: it gets worse. JVM at least is stack-based. Dalvik, apparently, is register based. 06:40:37 so, the growth is in the "wrong" direction 06:41:01 I have to wonder if this architectural difference was instituted merely to avoid patent issues 06:41:12 "look, it's fundamentally different in its architecture!" 06:41:15 i'm intensely curious about this register based vm thing...i kind of suspect it 06:41:30 (nevermind all that stuff about universal Turing machines) 06:41:36 's performance gains are based on it being maybe artificially-too-well mapped to currect architectures 06:42:04 if it, in fact, has the performance gains that are claimed 06:42:11 * dzho nods 06:42:20 anyways...i want to read a virtual machines book soon 06:42:40 but i have a lot of books on my plate 06:42:49 speaking of Dalvik, I need to go plug my phone into the charger . . . 06:43:47 and i thought non-duck typing would mean that types should be an illision enforced by the compiler....not something ENFORCED BY THE VM 06:43:56 seems kind of like a fuck up to me 06:44:24 or maybe just bad separation of concerns 06:45:47 i think that any types that aren't based on actual assembly level memory size differences are anti-modular 06:46:27 and that Java-style OOP is closures for retards 07:05:40 protist_: If you're making a language that goes across target CPUs, you really can't define types that are based on "actual assembly level memory size". 07:05:59 Because said "actual sizes" range from 4 bits to 36 bits on *common* hardware. 07:06:11 (We don't even want to start in the weird shit like 52-bit machines.) 07:07:12 ttmrichter: you could have size categories...like "large" and "small"...that vary by machine but are consistent 07:07:41 Still makes porting a nightmare. (That's kinda/sorta the C solution, after all.) 07:07:56 ttmrichter: hehe....C types bother me too :'( 07:12:27 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 07:23:08 --- quit: dkordic (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 07:34:15 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 07:45:45 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 08:04:21 --- join: ncv (~quassel@79.118.11.63) joined #forth 08:04:21 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 08:04:21 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 08:37:20 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 08:37:21 --- join: regreg2 (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 08:51:20 --- quit: goingretro (Remote host closed the connection) 08:54:57 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-173-228-239-96.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:15:01 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 09:16:44 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:28:13 --- quit: protist_ (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:28:46 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 09:36:21 --- join: dkordic (~danilo@109-92-197-119.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 10:25:06 --- join: klltkr (~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr) joined #forth 10:26:41 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-28-164-198.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 11:03:23 --- quit: klltkr (*.net *.split) 11:03:25 --- quit: carc_00 (*.net *.split) 11:04:27 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:09:20 --- join: carc_00 (~carc@2001:41d0:51:1::814) joined #forth 11:09:55 --- join: klltkr (~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr) joined #forth 11:30:43 --- quit: klltkr (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 11:46:53 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:52:38 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 12:02:57 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:09:40 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-173-228-245-186.prtc.net) joined #forth 12:10:01 --- quit: kumul (Client Quit) 12:20:17 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@150.20.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 12:20:35 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 12:33:44 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@150.20.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 12:35:48 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-214-117.as43234.net) joined #forth 12:35:48 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 12:35:48 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 12:37:45 well i re-registered isforth.com, no idea how long it takes to go active again lol 12:41:00 --- join: klltkr (~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr) joined #forth 12:41:22 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-173-228-245-186.prtc.net) joined #forth 12:45:18 --- quit: regreg2 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:45:19 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:56:43 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:31:59 yay working again. 14:14:08 --- join: _spt2_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-223-157.as43234.net) joined #forth 14:16:27 --- quit: _spt_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14:21:41 --- quit: _spt2_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:24:05 --- join: _spt2_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-223-157.as43234.net) joined #forth 14:25:06 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 14:40:28 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 14:40:46 --- quit: _spt2_ (Quit: gone) 15:05:14 --- quit: klltkr (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:13:09 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 15:46:37 --- quit: Zarutian (Remote host closed the connection) 15:47:00 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 15:48:52 --- join: Zarutian_ (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 15:52:42 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:52:49 --- nick: Zarutian_ -> Zarutian 15:54:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 15:55:01 --- topic: set to 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | isforth.com | forthfreak.net | http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' by I440r 15:55:18 --- quit: kumul (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:55:22 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-173-228-245-186.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:12:38 --- join: klltkr (~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr) joined #forth 16:13:42 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:17:14 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 16:20:30 --- quit: Zarutian (Client Quit) 16:31:32 --- join: crc (sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-behymrcjqwsvpicl) joined #forth 16:31:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 16:32:32 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 16:51:30 --- quit: klltkr (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 17:04:23 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:35:08 --- join: aranhoide_ (~aranhoide@92.Red-79-158-60.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 17:50:54 --- quit: koisoke_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:58:18 --- quit: aranhoide_ (Remote host closed the connection) 17:58:25 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 17:59:35 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@92.Red-79-158-60.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 18:05:56 --- join: klltkr (~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr) joined #forth 18:06:08 --- join: koisoke (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 18:07:35 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:36:23 --- nick: klltkr -> klltkr[JAX] 18:37:43 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:38:35 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 18:40:44 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@92.Red-79-158-60.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 18:54:57 --- quit: kumool (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:10:56 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-24-7-68-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:14:56 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:15:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-24-7-68-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:20:36 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:22:40 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@92.Red-79-158-60.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 19:29:16 --- quit: cataska (Remote host closed the connection) 19:31:56 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 19:32:41 --- join: cataska (~cataska@118-163-69-1.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 19:47:09 dzho the register/stack difference is probably a performance thing not patent thing... its exactly the same difference between linux system calls and freebsd system calls 19:47:41 when u make a syscall in freebsd the parameters are on the stack. so you transition in to kernel space then kernel has to do a lookup of the parameters in user space. 19:47:50 in linux the parameters are "just there" 20:24:47 --- quit: dkordic (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:37:22 --- join: dkordic (~danilo@178-223-11-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 20:55:08 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21:08:57 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 22:08:56 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 22:09:51 --- join: mnemnion_ (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:14:09 --- quit: mnemnion_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:16:51 --- nick: joneshf-laptop -> joneshf 23:21:19 --- nick: joneshf -> joneshf-laptop 23:36:57 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 23:44:16 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-26-43-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.01.02