00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.03.18 00:23:36 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 00:28:07 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01:08:06 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@pD954CC5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:10:50 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:40:41 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@128-69-176-54.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 01:44:38 --- quit: karswell` (Remote host closed the connection) 02:21:58 --- join: karswell (~user@87.112.118.233) joined #forth 02:35:11 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:41:01 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 03:01:01 i liked that 'life as a forth interpreter' story, bjorkintosh. thanks. :) 03:02:59 as for keyboards, i use a normal one, but i'm quite interested in learning this someday: http://plover.stenoknight.com/ 03:07:33 np :) 03:10:18 i havnt read that done 03:12:14 what's the principle of keyboards? how many wires would one key connected? 03:15:30 I kind of wonder at the two-handed chording keyboards. 03:15:56 One of the reasons I want a chording keyboard is because I want the damned thing to be used by ONE hand, allowing me to use my other hand for other input devices, erc. 03:16:00 s/erc/etc/ 03:17:25 I quite fancy one for my bike 03:18:42 ttmrichter: i want chording keyboard because i want to be able to input even on subway or other moving stuff, where i cant find a desk for my pocket keyboard 03:19:01 yunfan: Again, wouldn't it being single-handed be better? 03:19:02 btw, the brain-wave input is the final solution i think 03:19:17 As soon as you need two hands, you're losing any benefits from a chorded, IMO. 03:19:18 ttmrichter: of cause i mean single-handed 03:19:42 my other hand need to hold some stuff for making me steady on the car or subway :] 03:20:00 also i could eat or drink or do what the hell i want to do 03:20:22 --- nick: DGASAU` -> DGASAU 05:47:43 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 05:48:56 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 06:16:17 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 06:16:47 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:21:28 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07:44:05 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 07:53:53 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-173-228-235-43.prtc.net) joined #forth 07:54:38 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-64-237-226-245.prtc.net) joined #forth 07:58:35 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 08:04:14 --- quit: impomatic (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:06:11 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@87.112.13.30) joined #forth 08:17:11 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:21:36 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:11:40 --- quit: nop0x07bc (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09:18:00 --- join: bbloom (~bbloom@cpe-68-173-7-82.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 09:23:59 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 09:26:50 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 09:38:15 --- join: nop0x07bc (~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com) joined #forth 09:43:03 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:45:05 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-227-186.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:47:51 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:16:46 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:21:10 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10:23:20 --- nick: bluekelp_ -> bluekelp 10:31:10 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:54:09 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 11:04:20 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 11:07:50 tangentstorm: Heh, the plover site has a guest post on Charlie Shattuck's steno keyboard. Charlie Shattuck is a prominent member of the Forth community as well. 11:08:01 Face it. We're EVERYWHERE. 11:09:35 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:10:01 * Zarutian still prefers OpenFirmware over UEFI (or like one of my pals calls it: CIOS, Complicated Input Output System) 11:10:45 I've never heard anyone say a good thing about uefi 11:12:24 technomancy: I like UEFI because it supports my Stockholm Syndrome-induced feelings of love and a sense of communal belonging with Intel and Microsoft. 11:12:30 j/k of course ;) 11:13:20 yeah, that RSA sign the bootloader in MBR is bloody too much. Much simpler to take an SHA256 hash of it an compere that with one stored in nvram. If they are same boot as normal, if they are diffrent prompt the user for the new hash, store that in nvram and reboot. 11:14:14 a bit of extra hassle when switching out the bootloader but that shouldnt happen that frequently. 11:14:16 Or don't boot at all, which is the point behind secured boot. 11:15:25 that process I decribed notifies the user that something isnt right. The prompt doesnt show the new hash only asks for it. 11:18:41 Right, and that's OK for someone technical enough to install an OS. My fiance ... not so much. ;) 11:20:28 which is the damn point. If your OS install doesnt do anything to the bootloader in the MBR, no problem. For those who want to install grub or other such loader, little hassle. 11:23:11 'damn point' 11:24:02 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:27:42 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 11:29:08 * fantazo gets some popcorn 11:36:33 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 11:42:56 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:44:51 hmm... is memory mapped IO easier to use than using special IO instructions? 11:52:27 I think so. 11:52:41 But that's based primarily on experience with C. 11:53:15 Where you can cast an integer representing an address into a pointer to a structure that's laid out to match your memory mapped I/O ports. 11:53:45 I'm not sure if there would be any significant difference in Forth. You'd use different words to get at I/O space, but I have a feeling they'd be a lot like @, !, etc. 11:56:58 --- quit: kumul (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:58:24 --- quit: asie (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 12:04:35 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@87.112.13.30) joined #forth 12:08:57 Some higher level languages like Ada also make structure-mapped into I/O space indistinguishable from memory-mapped. 12:09:31 Even so, CPUs typically put memory on the fast-path, and dedicated I/O on a slower path. All other things being equal, memory-mapping usually results in faster programs. 12:16:41 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:17:47 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.52.126) joined #forth 12:18:44 That makes sense. 12:34:13 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 12:40:49 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@cpe-68-203-183-77.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 12:45:05 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:50:04 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 12:57:46 --- join: BassSultan (~christoph@chello084114211086.13.15.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 13:00:25 hi im a forth beginner and i like it so far.. but there is one thing that i dont get. for one exercise we are supposed to take a number (e.g. 1234) and manipulate it that we get an output like this : 12,34. i tried dividing it with 100 for the first two digits, then emit ',' and then mod 100 for the second two digits. but i keep getting "12 ,34" because of the . after the division 13:00:31 how can i get rid of that? 13:00:37 sry for the long post 13:01:32 Don't use dot. 13:01:34 . 13:01:37 that is. 13:02:17 Do what you did, but do it for each digit. 13:02:38 Then after you have each digit add the ascii value of '0' to it and use EMIT. 13:02:59 If you spend some time honing it that seems like something that will allow some nice factoring. 13:03:43 Make sure you understand the range of numbers this has to work for. 13:03:48 Does it have to work for negative numbers? 13:03:50 Etc. 13:05:32 why would i do it for each digit and add ascii 0? i dont get that :) 13:06:05 Because EMIT doesn't add any unwanted spaces. 13:06:17 It's the . that's doing that to you. 13:07:21 adding ascii '0' is an old trick to convert a single digit decimal number to ascii 13:07:37 EMIT prints precisely one character, so you will be in complete control. 13:07:41 e.g. adding 0 to ascii's '0' = '0', adding 1 = ascii '1', etc. 13:08:32 Yes - adding the ascii value of 0 turns an integer from 0 through 9 into the printable ascii character representing that integer. 13:09:46 Just fire up your forth and try this: 0 48 + EMIT 13:09:56 And repeat that with 1, 2, 3, etc. replacning 0. 13:10:00 You'll see. 13:11:57 BassSultan: I guess this could seem confusing if you're not familiar with the ASCII character code. 13:12:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII 13:13:46 --- quit: BassSultan (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:14:19 The . word does all kinds of calculations like this under the hood, to extract the digits, convert them to printable characters, and EMIT them. It is flexible enough to work in any radix (value stored in BASE), etc. 13:14:34 And then it gives you the lovely gift of a space tacked onto the end... ;-) 13:18:44 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 13:33:44 --- join: joneshf-work (~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net) joined #forth 13:37:34 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.52.126) joined #forth 13:40:32 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:40:47 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:01:07 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 14:17:57 Aww, I was going to suggest using <# # HOLD and #> to control the formatting. I'm too late! That's what I get for daring to eat lunch. :D 14:18:11 ;-) 14:18:27 Well, that would be the "proper" way. 15:13:08 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:41:58 --- quit: nop0x07bc (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 16:03:21 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:11:02 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-250.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:41:34 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:54:29 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 17:00:27 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 17:58:42 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:59:20 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:04:12 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:31:40 --- quit: pvt_petey (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 19:12:54 so how about using t9 keyboard and with some meta keys on the side for single-handed keyboard? 19:13:30 the advantage is everyone could easily use it, cause they used to use it :] 19:14:34 the disadvantage is that your Thumb would got tired after some inputing 19:18:53 There is nothing - NOTHING - like a real keyboard. 19:19:11 It doesn't have to be enormous - I find the Logitech K810 to be very, very effective. 19:19:21 And it will pair with three systems at once, and I use it that way. 19:19:27 Work PC, personal PC, tablet. 19:30:01 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:49:14 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~ricky_ric@71-209-190-83.phnx.qwest.net) joined #forth 20:06:44 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:07:09 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:08:21 --- join: mnemnion_ (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:08:37 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 20:12:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:14:24 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Quit: laptop[lid].close) 20:52:49 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:59:48 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 21:02:35 --- quit: goingretro (Ping timeout: 599 seconds) 21:02:44 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host86-155-211-109.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 21:10:22 --- join: karswell (~user@87.112.118.233) joined #forth 21:25:42 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21:26:10 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@139.216.253.31) joined #forth 21:28:21 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-173-228-235-43.prtc.net) joined #forth 21:35:05 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 21:49:59 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:26:15 --- quit: bbloom (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 23:06:06 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 23:29:38 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.03.18