00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.01.11 00:00:06 Templates aren't "OOP". 00:00:31 Neither real OOP nor the C++/Java/C#/whatever faux-OOP. 00:24:24 I'd have to disagree and argue that it depends on how you use them. Combining regular inheritence and parametarization via templates for object composition and real encapsulation is clearly an OO concept. 00:24:49 Well, faux-OOP, yes. 00:25:15 Still doesn't buy me much in code comprehension, which is my main beef with class-and-object+inheritance OOP. 00:25:54 And the system was built around an efficient pub-sub mechanism for messaging between objects. the use of templates made much of the dispatch resuolution occur at compile time rather than run time but was otherwise fully dynamic from a code view. 00:27:01 Again I'd disagree. What aspect of OO do you presume I missed? And the code was far more comprehendable than a C library chick full of macros. 00:29:33 I didn't say you missed it. But inheritance, etc. are not OOP. That's the industry faux-OOP. They're implementation details of Kay's description. 00:29:48 The real OOP is messaging between independent software entities. 00:29:55 And you've got that. Good. 00:30:10 I only claimed encapsulation and messaging. 00:30:12 But the inheritance and parametrization have nothing to do with OOP. 00:30:24 "Combining regular inheritence and parametarization via templates for object composition and real encapsulation is clearly an OO concept." 00:30:30 Apparently someone hijacked your keyboard then. 00:31:08 Regular inheritance is a faux-OOP concept. Parameterization is not an OOP concept at all. 00:31:29 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 00:32:56 you confuse techniques with architectural drivers. using a technique of any kind that brings you to support that oo concept is oo. 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#forth 09:16:37 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 09:35:12 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-236-150.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:48:35 --- join: mark4_ (~mark4@cpe-68-203-183-77.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 10:24:47 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 10:27:18 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 10:31:45 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:38:06 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.158.62.116) joined #forth 10:39:50 --- quit: mark4_ (Quit: Leaving) 11:59:46 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 12:03:57 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 12:16:31 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:36:52 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@87.113.166.106) joined #forth 13:12:18 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 13:25:52 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:45:19 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 13:47:46 --- quit: KipIngram (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:50:53 --- quit: Zamenhof (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:56:41 --- join: Guest91610 (~kip@209.40.205.22) joined #forth 14:02:06 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 14:16:08 --- nick: Guest91610 -> KipIngram 14:16:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v KipIngram 14:19:44 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip18861915.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 14:19:48 hello 14:22:37 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:23:58 --- join: karswell (~user@87.113.81.255) joined #forth 14:24:51 h'lo Mat4 14:25:07 hi zarutian 14:25:48 I think it was you, who is in search for a Forth environment with graphic support ? 14:26:34 naah, more in search of a Forth graphics wordset or vocabulary 14:28:26 I can easily implement primitives such as getColour ( x y -- c ) and setColour ( c x y -- ) 14:28:40 I've found out, that there exist a SDL and OpenGL wrapper for Gforth 14:29:09 that wont help me for what I have in mind. 14:31:18 https://sites.google.com/site/forthoperatingsystem/ 14:32:12 line, point, circle, paint 14:32:38 that is more like I am looking for thank you 14:35:41 nice and usable operating system by the way 14:45:06 I have been looking at Texas Instruments MSP430s that use FRAM instead of Flash for program memory (and it is a von neuman architecture too not the irritating harvard that most MCUs use) 14:45:26 And I am tempted to order a few and port a Forth onto it. 14:48:33 nice, I've thinking about ordering a launchpad board at current to get some experiences with FRAM 14:49:30 I am not sure what physical processes FRAM relies on yet. I think it might be memristor based but I am not too sure yet. 14:56:43 I don't think so. FRAM is to my knowledge conventional RAM which just uses a ferro-electric side effect for permanent storage (if I understand this correct) 14:56:52 --- join: spoofer (~cruella@198.sub-70-199-130.myvzw.com) joined #forth 15:03:16 Mat4: oh, nice so there isnt as much engergy usage during writing like with Flash (and a bit less with memristor) 15:04:28 yes, this happen in a twin layer which 'polarization' is modified 15:09:40 probably memristors are more energy efficient (however, I doesn't know any facts about it). As I know HP is building a new computer architecture around there developed memristor based memory system at current 15:10:01 so time will tell 15:11:38 well if FRAM works well enough so one can get used to work with persistant RAM (funny that the old core based ones worked the same) then that I am willing to use until memristor based memory is commercially aviable. 15:12:56 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 15:14:44 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: zzZZ) 15:15:42 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 15:16:56 --- quit: spoofer (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 15:17:12 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 15:19:48 I can imagine a FRAM only computer system without external storage (beside an optional USB interface). This would simplifying operating systems a lot and is for sure more energy efficient 15:20:13 specially for database oriented servers 15:23:10 I am thinking about basically what amounts to one chip per E vat (see wiki.erights.org) that can be hosted in the back of an ceiling light or some such ;-) 15:28:33 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:31:34 ah, the "internet of things" (alias distributed computing) 15:31:57 yes, but with better security and access control 15:34:38 do you think more security is really demanded in general ? I'm skeptical about this 15:35:25 hmm ok, for military applications, yes 15:35:46 if you think security is about making something harder to use and abuse then you need to review what it is about ;-) 15:36:17 military applications? I am thinking more of nick szabo's smart contracts and such 15:37:22 also getting rid of this obsession on identity that plagues most computer systems nowdays. 15:40:41 not harder to use, just harder to misuse 15:46:35 well I am off to bed 15:46:40 ciao 15:46:43 see you around 15:46:50 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 16:07:04 mat4 even for commercial applications security is important 16:07:24 right 16:10:39 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 16:18:46 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 16:24:33 --- join: Zamenhof (~Greyhat@12.181.213.135) joined #forth 16:32:53 ciao 16:33:02 --- part: Mat4 left #forth 16:47:57 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 17:08:52 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 17:17:25 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 17:31:52 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 17:59:14 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:59:44 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 18:04:26 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:26:29 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Lingo: www.lingoirc.com) 18:31:59 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 18:33:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:47:37 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-29.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 18:47:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 19:15:46 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 19:17:47 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 19:27:02 --- join: TheBlueWizard (6c1f1c54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.31.28.84) joined #forth 19:32:01 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 20:14:33 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:23:24 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:27:10 --- quit: Zamenhof (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:27:12 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:17:02 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@c-76-31-212-235.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:32:28 --- join: samrat (~samrat@61.12.96.226) joined #forth 21:33:46 --- quit: samrat (Client Quit) 21:36:04 --- join: samrat (~samrat@61.12.96.226) joined #forth 22:32:06 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 22:39:51 --- quit: gabriel_laddel (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 22:50:18 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@2601:9:4f81:acb0:221:6aff:fea4:6db8) joined #forth 22:50:18 --- quit: gabriel_laddel (Changing host) 22:50:18 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) joined #forth 23:09:28 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.01.11