00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.11.07 00:19:29 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 00:20:27 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 00:41:30 --- quit: reepca (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:43:36 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 00:49:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 01:01:30 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@node-41e.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) joined #forth 01:01:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 01:22:25 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Quit: Leaving) 01:24:05 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 01:25:52 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:927:1a6f:3589:170d) joined #forth 01:30:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 01:30:46 --- quit: proteusguy_satri (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 01:53:29 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 02:31:01 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:e077:18d8:8fc3:6dd4) joined #forth 02:33:19 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 02:35:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02:44:57 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 04:25:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:4980:f5b9:c340:3adc) joined #forth 04:25:35 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04:29:06 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 04:34:54 --- join: proteusguy_satri (~proteusgu@180.183.130.27) joined #forth 05:41:19 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2602:306:328f:79f0:91d2:b1ba:a54d:9fa4) joined #forth 05:54:36 --- join: magneticduck (~magneticd@a95-95-105-53.cpe.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 06:21:13 --- join: karswell` (~user@241.49.93.209.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 06:22:50 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:33:38 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:41:43 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:42:23 --- quit: newcup (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:43:15 --- quit: jeremyheiler (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:43:41 --- quit: ids1024 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:44:07 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:45:30 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2602:306:328f:79f0:91d2:b1ba:a54d:9fa4) joined #forth 07:47:23 --- join: jeremyheiler (sid81469@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndflpmonomnqaacx) joined #forth 07:48:49 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801) joined #forth 07:50:06 --- quit: magneticduck (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:54:45 --- join: magneticduck (~magneticd@a95-95-105-53.cpe.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 07:55:56 --- join: ids1024 (~ids1024@iandouglasscott.com) joined #forth 07:55:59 --- quit: ids1024 (Changing host) 07:56:00 --- join: ids1024 (~ids1024@unaffiliated/ids1024) joined #forth 08:14:33 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.113.73.105) joined #forth 08:14:33 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 08:14:33 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 08:19:59 --- quit: magneticduck (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08:33:34 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@172-97-156-83.cpe.distributel.net) joined #forth 08:35:20 --- join: magneticduck (~magneticd@a95-95-105-53.cpe.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 08:43:27 --- quit: magneticduck (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 09:08:23 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:10:38 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 09:13:31 --- join: X-Scale (HydraIRC@92.250.55.123) joined #forth 09:16:08 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:4980:f5b9:c340:3adc) joined #forth 09:43:07 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-1-248.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 09:50:42 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2602:306:328f:79f0:91d2:b1ba:a54d:9fa4) joined #forth 09:59:10 --- join: newcup (newcup@peruna.fi) joined #forth 10:01:57 --- join: magneticduck (~magneticd@a95-95-105-53.cpe.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 10:20:07 --- quit: magneticduck (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:32:27 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:33:17 * Zarutian has returned 10:37:08 pointfree: . 11:09:20 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:09:29 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 11:13:50 Hello, Zarutian! 11:24:50 regarding 'owner capability stored on the server/in the kernel': what did that do? 11:32:37 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Remote host closed the connection) 11:40:49 pointfree: as capability is just a protected combination of designation and authorization, I was thinking about just using a variation of macaroons to implement them. This makes them fall into the ungussability camp but the only secret that must be unguessable is the starting HMAC key. (Which would be system or disk wide) 11:41:10 Zarutian: The forth interpreter loop puts the code executed so far + the code to be executed next + the secret random number through a one-way-function. If the result matches the user's check field then the interpreter proceeds to execute the code. 11:43:22 where is that user's check field? in the header of each word or? 11:51:50 Interacting with the system would create restricted capabilities from the more general purpose capabilities such as those for machine instructions. 11:51:54 The random number is only physically insecure. The remote interface can be secured with capabilities. Just to be clear I haven't successfully done this yet, much less capabilities in interpretation state as I described. 11:58:29 aah, I see. You are basically doing attenuation by 'prepending' code that gets run first before the more powerfull capability gets execercised 11:58:55 pretty much in the style of Nikita's ActiveCertificates I think 12:07:09 Something like that. Attenuate by way of writing forth code. More restrictive capabilities are built from more powerful capabilities in the same way that more specific words higher-level words are built from more general lower-level words. 12:14:16 I'm blogging about the possibility of non-textual word names. Could a sensor other than a keyboard/uart write Forth code? Could a Forth word be written and read by a human through another means than text? I'm not talking about emoticon Forth. I'm talking about the atmosphere's temperature itself writing Forth through a thermometer. 12:16:43 (this is part of my attempt to reduce parsing from all terminals of a system) 12:17:14 ...or rather to make it happen as early as possible and as little as possible. 12:24:40 A human's theory of the problem at hand tends to be very concise so we called it code. A machine's understanding of the problem is verbose as a consequence of it not being so deep and comprehensive so we called it data. Maybe we can bring the two together to some extent. 12:47:12 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 12:49:51 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 12:51:40 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.236.28) joined #forth 12:53:28 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:03:13 pointfree: the code is data and data is code duality is known to me and probably many others here. 13:05:16 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8CD80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 13:17:45 Zarutian: Yes, I know that you all know about things like homoiconity. I was just making some context. 13:18:50 indeed, but some people idling here dont know of this and I am often too pedantic for my own good. 13:22:03 Metaprogramming/program transformation are not the one of selling points of Forth. 13:22:21 I wasn't so much talking about quoting or de-quoting. 13:23:27 But there exist some limited way to do function level programming in Forth. There was a good example of tree walking algorithm in some old Philip Koopman paper. 13:24:02 It's a bit sad that Mr. Koopman is not interested in Forth anymore. 13:24:09 --- quit: ASau` (Remote host closed the connection) 13:24:33 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.236.28) joined #forth 13:27:02 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 13:31:03 --- quit: ASau` (Remote host closed the connection) 13:31:21 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.236.28) joined #forth 13:35:53 anyone seen T0 in https://bearssl.org/ yet? 14:00:37 I love Koopman's stuff! I built the VM he described in his book once for fun: https://github.com/RickCarlino/stacky_mcstackface 14:17:22 --- quit: ASau` (Remote host closed the connection) 14:18:29 ricky_ricardo: :-) 14:18:37 programming is always better when it's fun 14:19:08 Indeed! Nothing practical about what I did, but I learned a bunch and had fun. 14:19:10 pointfree: that's an interesting problem 14:19:38 ricky_ricardo: that's kind of why I ported Dave Dunfield's 6809 Forth to the Ensoniq Mirage 14:20:08 "hey, I've got this 6809-based machine, it boots off a floppy, I bet that would let me poke the sound chip registers to see what happens" 14:20:14 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.236.28) joined #forth 14:23:54 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 14:25:44 --- quit: JDat (Client Quit) 14:27:29 pointfree: how would you see something like temperature writing a Forth word? 14:30:26 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:46:43 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:59:39 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-235-55.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:05:29 --- quit: nighty (Remote host closed the connection) 15:16:50 --- join: karswell` (~user@226.67.198.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 15:21:51 --- nick: karswell` -> karswell 15:35:56 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice day.) 15:54:43 gordonjcp: A word name could have the same representation as the representation of a mouse click event so that when you click, the word is named by the mouse instead of the keyboard/uart and can be executed when terminated by a newline. 15:54:50 Similarly, a tempurature sensor could take the status and the adc reading and use that to write both the name of the word and the definition. You would get more structured data, and also active executable data from your sensor instead of just a flat table of values. 15:55:00 Your sensors and actuators would add words to the dictionary and also execute words almost like a human would. 15:59:38 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 15:59:50 This also means forth GUIs without trading the power of the command line and its complete control of the system. 16:24:50 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:8db2:c51d:2fe1:60d2) joined #forth 16:26:14 --- join: reepca (~user@std-001.cune.edu) joined #forth 16:44:31 --- quit: proteusguy_satri (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:44:42 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:46:32 --- join: proteusguy_satri (~proteusgu@180.183.130.27) joined #forth 17:13:26 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:14:04 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com) joined #forth 17:14:04 --- quit: nisstyre (Changing host) 17:14:04 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/oswg-member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 17:20:27 --- join: karswell` (~user@223.67.198.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 17:21:54 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17:44:44 --- join: saml_ (~saml@cpe-24-102-97-97.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 18:21:35 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.113.73.105) joined #forth 18:21:35 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 18:21:35 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 18:27:19 --- join: proteusguy_sat2 (~proteusgu@183.88.33.69) joined #forth 18:30:50 --- quit: proteusguy_satri (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19:20:10 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 19:23:36 --- quit: saml_ (Remote host closed the connection) 19:57:50 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 20:20:35 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:8db2:c51d:2fe1:60d2) joined #forth 21:06:23 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 21:14:15 --- quit: proteusguy_sat2 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21:17:31 --- quit: koisoke (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21:17:37 --- join: koisoke (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 21:17:59 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21:19:10 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 21:19:14 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21:53:40 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 22:26:59 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:29:21 --- join: proteusguy_sat2 (~proteusgu@180.183.133.11) joined #forth 23:15:12 --- quit: karswell` (Remote host closed the connection) 23:16:29 --- join: karswell` (~user@223.67.198.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 23:43:27 hey, i was wondering many of those old printers which support postscript, do they run a forth inside? 23:50:16 Not aware of it. Postscript interpreters were typically only that. Not saying it couldn't happen but I'm not aware of any. 23:51:14 and if they did it would be a design decision orthogonal to having a postscript interpreter for page generation 23:52:05 notwithstanding the aesthetic of one thing informing that of another 23:53:22 because i was think those old printer dont have much resources 23:55:39 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:55:56 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:4980:f5b9:c340:3adc) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.11.07