00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.06.06 00:09:24 --- quit: dograt (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:51:08 --- join: dograt (~dograt@unaffiliated/dograt) joined #forth 00:51:16 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.219.178) joined #forth 01:34:59 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 01:51:17 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.127.213) joined #forth 03:08:34 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 03:28:36 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 04:51:26 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:26:02 --- join: opamp (~textual@97-104-93-154.res.bhn.net) joined #forth 05:37:10 --- quit: opamp (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 06:24:40 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.134) joined #forth 06:33:24 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 06:56:41 --- quit: MrBismuth (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09:01:28 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@99.30.241.51) joined #forth 10:30:31 --- join: MrBismuth (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be) joined #forth 13:29:57 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 14:10:34 I'm trying to come up with good names for these words. are there commonly used names for words that endian-swap values from host order to little or big endian, or from host order to network order, etc.? (e.g., c's htonl) 14:10:49 and I can't remember if I asked this already so if I did, sorry 14:13:19 have not heard of such. i would just pattern them on the bsd/posix names 14:13:48 my problem with the posix ones is that I never understood why there's htonl and ntohl 14:13:58 those will both always do exactly the same thing 14:14:56 I suppose it does make sense, though; use what's already familiar for best clarity 14:15:25 or *maybe* >little and >big 14:15:27 or so 14:16:11 but then that only does the right thing if one knows the starting endianness of the thing one is converting, so that can be misleading too 14:16:22 and suffers from the same symmetry as htonl/ntohl 14:17:12 well it would be assumed that the implementation for, e.g., a big-endian system would be ": >big ; immediate", but yeah it does have the symmetry thing. 14:18:25 --- join: opamp (~textual@97-104-93-154.res.bhn.net) joined #forth 14:19:47 could have all of host>big big>host host>little little>host i guess 14:20:30 can think if a few perverse cases where ntohl and htonl would not be the same but i don't think they have ever occured in the wild 14:20:37 yeah. again, maybe the clarity of intention is more valuable than what it would save to eliminate the redundancy 14:20:40 oh? 14:23:20 they are symmetric even with pdp-endian, so i wouldn't worry about it, but if someone wanted to be really extra perverse and have byte ordering 2341, then they would different rotates 14:23:45 personally i wouldn't care about supporting such a thing 14:24:38 oh right, I hadn't even thought of that. yeah, probably not worth considering 14:25:01 although on the other hand, it does give me an excuse to stick with the posix symbols 14:32:23 the x86 opcode for doing endian swaps is called bswap - thats a good forth word name 14:33:00 >big and >little will have identical definitions :P 14:33:41 it is, but then the program needs to explicitly check if it needs to swap or not 14:34:09 instead of just caring about the target endianness 14:34:37 (or source endinanness) 14:48:38 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:14:01 --- quit: opamp (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 15:25:20 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.141) joined #forth 15:26:01 --- join: opamp (~textual@97-104-93-154.res.bhn.net) joined #forth 15:29:38 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:32:56 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:53:39 --- join: Chef_Gromboli (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:07:05 zy]x[yz: amForth uses: >< ( n1 – n2 ) to exchange the bytes of the TOS 16:07:05 You could use that name for endianness swap. 16:08:11 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.141) joined #forth 16:10:45 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:21:10 --- quit: opamp (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 16:28:40 --- join: opamp (~textual@97-104-93-154.res.bhn.net) joined #forth 16:43:37 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 17:57:09 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 18:17:12 --- join: jedb (~jedb@199.66.90.113) joined #forth 19:39:11 --- quit: mark4 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 19:45:56 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 19:47:32 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli (Quit: Leaving) 20:25:49 --- quit: opamp (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 20:42:46 anyone know of a "cheat sheet" or "command reference" for ANS Forth? 22:29:59 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~lisbeth@c-73-239-38-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:30:11 --- quit: John[Lisbeth] (Client Quit) 22:31:35 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~lisbeth@c-73-239-38-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:37:52 --- part: John[Lisbeth] left #forth 22:37:59 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~lisbeth@c-73-239-38-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:39:15 --- part: John[Lisbeth] left #forth 23:11:49 --- quit: roundsf`` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:17:28 --- mode: koisoke set +b *!*lisbeth*@*wa.comcast.net 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.06.06