[HN Gopher] I can't upgrade to Windows 11, now leave me alone
___________________________________________________________________
I can't upgrade to Windows 11, now leave me alone
Author : firefoxd
Score : 417 points
Date : 2025-12-21 18:43 UTC (10 hours ago)
HTML web link (idiallo.com)
TEXT w3m dump (idiallo.com)
| spencerflem wrote:
| I love the phrase I heard recently: "software developers don't
| understand consent"
|
| It describes so much
| baal80spam wrote:
| Sales people don't understand it, not software developers.
| hulitu wrote:
| See Windows and Android. Blaming only the sales people is ...
| not helping.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Blaming the sales people is correct. Technically-minded
| people likely _do_ know better, they just lack the
| authority to override the top-down administrative
| decisions.
| spencerflem wrote:
| I'd like to think that but the AI ppl on this website are
| something else
| ghostly_s wrote:
| These problems are rampant enough in the OSS world too, never
| heard of an open source salesman.
| paradox460 wrote:
| Rms?
| Blackthorn wrote:
| Which one invented "ask me again later" dialogs?
| mikestew wrote:
| Sales people, and that shit rolled downhill to the devs.
| The days of devs writing dialog text in something like
| Windows are _long_ gone.
| heelix wrote:
| What is the difference between software and car sales? The
| car sales knows when they are lying.
| canyp wrote:
| If you are a software developer and you implemented that
| without question, you suck.
| kgklxksnrb wrote:
| When I, as a developer, was told (essentially forced if I
| wanted to keep my job) to implement dark patterns, I did it
| knowing I made the world worse. I was fully aware of it, and my
| coworkers as well, we discussed it openly, and I imagine
| everyone implementing such tech are. Of course I and other
| could claim plausible deniability, "we didn't understand
| consent".
| Telaneo wrote:
| I hope one day there will be pushback on this from people
| like you, but when your boss has an economical stranglehold
| over you, not to mention the old adage 'It is difficult to
| get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on
| his not understanding it', it's understandable why we're in
| this situation.
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| Software developers understand consent well but they understand
| dollar signs even better.
| drnick1 wrote:
| The Penguin is calling.
| mystraline wrote:
| Exactly.
|
| Upgrade, to Linux.
| claysmithr wrote:
| 2026 year of the linux desktop
| baal80spam wrote:
| Any year now!
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| I've always dual booted windows with some Linux and used
| it like 90/10.
|
| I haven't even tried windows 11 even though my PC is
| compatible.
|
| Went full Linux and I'm not sure what I was missing at
| this point that I needed from Windows.
|
| Ran Pop OS (cosmic) which is the new Wayland based one
| but unfortunately it's still buggy and then I switched to
| a gaming focused Linux called Bazzite which has been
| perfect.
|
| Tiny learning curve because it's an "immutable" OS but
| have everything I need running on it plus everything
| gaming related works out of the box.
| brokencode wrote:
| I'm really hoping Steam Deck keeps on pushing game makers
| to support Linux. It's really gotten a lot better, except
| for competitive games that need most types of anti-cheat.
|
| If Linux supported all the games I wanted to play, I
| would ditch Windows on my home PC.
| brokencode wrote:
| I ran Linux on my laptop in college over a decade ago and
| it worked great.
|
| It just depends on application compatibility and to a
| smaller extent driver support, though that shouldn't be a
| problem for an older laptop.
| summa_tech wrote:
| I don't know... Two people around me recently switched to
| Linux because they could not stand how bad Windows 11
| got. I did not encourage either of them (I've got my
| share of frustrations after running a Linux desktop
| exclusively for 25 years, and will not consent to be the
| object of their ire when they inevitably get frustrated -
| I'd rather help them on neutral ground instead).
| bigyabai wrote:
| It was 2019 for me. I haven't daily-driven a Windows or
| Mac machine in almost 5 years now.
| Animats wrote:
| Me either.
|
| But Firefox on Ubuntu is not very good. It can expand to
| fill the whole machine and get killed by the OOM killer.
| Sometimes during long text input it hangs and has to be
| killed and restarted. 8 GB isn't enough any more.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Yep, I use a tab suspender to keep Firefox in check, and
| use zram/swap on my laptop. Works like a charm for me.
| Too wrote:
| To be honest Linux desktop has been ready for the past 4-5
| years or so. Long gone are the days where Bluetooth
| suddenly stopped, external monitors crashing and when
| closing the lid only put the laptop to sleep every fifth
| time. Heck, even Wayland, wireless printers and usb-c
| docking stations work these days, even with nvidia. You
| might even find some games.
|
| It's become a boring appliance that just works every time.
| Just they way I want it. I even forgot how to use grub.
| burky wrote:
| Especially having ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini available
| nowadays. It's a godsend when troubleshooting any Linux
| issues, and you can learn so much in the process.
|
| I just upgraded my PC's motherboard, CPU, memory, and
| video card and used Claude as a build buddy to help me
| lay out steps to follow. I also used it after installing
| CachyOS for the second time, but on this new hardware. It
| had me double checking to make sure I had all the proper
| drivers set up by running commands, but everything was
| already setup correctly by CachyOS. It even helped me
| figure out that I had a fan wire half plugged in, which
| was causing a fan not to throttle. I would alternate
| between Claude Sonnet 4.5 and ChatGPT 5.2. But it's so
| much easier and quicker than the old days of sifting
| through the manuals and forums, if you could get online
| to a forum that is.
| herdymerzbow wrote:
| chatpgt has sent me wrong instructions on just as many
| occasions it has given the right instructions on how to
| fix things on linux. It's frustrating when it sends me a
| 'fix' on something that doesn't even need it (steps on
| installing a particular flavour of Proton to bypass
| Rockstar's launcher, when it was already done by
| default). And because I'm not terribly adept I only
| appreciate it's the wrong instructions after implementing
| it and it not working.
| twilo wrote:
| Why bother with Linux when there is MacOS? You get decent
| hardware to go with it too
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| Because some of us would rather not have to buy new
| hardware just because Apple says no more updates for your
| machine.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| IMO Mac eco is good hardware plus meh software. Some built
| ins are really in bad shape -- but I guess people have
| different opinions, although I think calling Finder a beta
| version is an insult to "beta".
| canyp wrote:
| Because MacOS is just as insidious? Recent versions will
| bring up the iCloud pop-up on every boot. Won't go away
| until you comply.
|
| Both Mac and Windows are for suckers.
| chocochunks wrote:
| Actual control over my computer? Apple might have less ads,
| but they really go out of their way to make you feel
| uncomfortable doing anything they deem not the happy path.
| And they're still plenty willing to push subscriptions and
| their software.
| timbit42 wrote:
| You're only delaying the inevitable.
| Neil44 wrote:
| Not being battered by upsells nobody asked for every time you
| turn the laptop on is so refreshing.
| cogman10 wrote:
| My 5 year old laptop runs a lot faster as well.
|
| Linux was designed to run on potatoes and has very little
| bloat over the years. The UX isn't terribly worse on fairly
| old hardware.
| immibis wrote:
| Linux has plenty of bloat. But it's _your_ bloat. You get
| the power to slice through it how you want and nobody will
| stop you.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Well, I'd say it's almost the reverse of how it is with
| windows.
|
| In windows, the bloat is built in by default. You don't
| get to chose how the start menu works, you get the
| windows default start menu and you better like the ads in
| it. It takes work to pull that garbage out.
|
| In linux most stuff is opt in.
|
| The other part of linux is most stuff isn't simply there
| running in the background by default. Firefox eats a
| decent amount of memory, but it's not doing that when I
| don't have my browser open.
| charcircuit wrote:
| >Linux was designed to run on potatoes
|
| This is factually not true.
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| > Linux was designed to run on potatoes and has very little
| bloat over the years. I think it's more that it was
| designed in the 80s-90s for hardware at the time, and
| hasn't added bloat or "requirements" since then. So as
| computers have gotten more capable Linux takes less of the
| overall capacity.
| maniacwhat wrote:
| This reminds me of the situation with online ads.
|
| Most people with ad blockers don't realize how unusable the
| web is for those that don't have ad blockers. I think most
| would agree this is a poor state that industry incentives
| have landed us in, and with the web being distributed, it's
| hard to know how to fix.
|
| Similarly those who use Linux probably don't realize how bad
| Windows has got recently.
|
| Microsoft has managed to replicate this awful ux problem on a
| system that they entirely control...
| the_snooze wrote:
| When your computer does what you tell it and it doesn't
| actively try to undermine your intentions, computing becomes
| fun again.
| underlipton wrote:
| _The SEO /Stochastic Parrot Tag Team has entered the chat_
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| Instead, you get battered by proselytes every time you go
| online! :D
| userbinator wrote:
| Windows used to be like that too, when MS was more focused on
| being hostile to the competition than its own customers.
| jesprenj wrote:
| I sure like seeing Expanded Security
| Maintenance for Applications is not enabled. 0
| updates can be applied immediately. 108
| additional security updates can be applied with ESM Apps.
| Learn more about enabling ESM Apps service at
| https://ubuntu.com/esm
|
| every time I log in. Or
|
| > You do not have a valid subscription for this server. Please
| visit www.proxmox.com to get a list of available options.
|
| every time I log in.
| Too wrote:
| That's if you run a OS version older than 5 years. You can
| still update to a newer Ubuntu version for free and get
| another 5 years if you pick an LTS version.
| bramhaag wrote:
| Believe it or not, Ubuntu is not the only Linux distribution.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| So disable it?
| timbit42 wrote:
| Ubuntu broke new ground when it came out but around the time
| they switched to the Gnome desktop, they stopped focusing on
| a great desktop experience and it was surpassed by other,
| better distributions. I'd recommend trying Linux Mint instead
| as it has all the greatness of Linux without the crap from
| Canonical (eg. SNAPs).
|
| I haven't recommended Ubuntu to anyone for years but there
| are still people recommending it because it was great years
| ago and they don't seem to know it's now lagging other
| distributions.
| petcat wrote:
| > at this point a Windows machine only belongs to you in name.
| Microsoft can run arbitrary code on it.
|
| I get what the author is trying to say, but...like... obviously?
| souenzzo wrote:
| I mean, the free software community has been saying this for 40
| years now.
| voidfunc wrote:
| I mean.. how is this different from any OS distribution?
| Apple can push whatever. So can Red Hat or Ubuntu or Gentoo.
| Unless im literally running Linux From Scratch im at the
| mercy of maintainers to do whatever they want.
| undersuit wrote:
| Provide a way to show that your compiled code is what you
| say it is.
|
| https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| But where does the original compiler come from?
| Reproducible builds are only as good as the compiler used
| to compile them. That's the point of Trusting Trust. If
| you build with a backdoored compiler and I reproduce your
| build with the same backdoored compiler, that solves
| nothing. This is why full-source bootstrap is
| important[0].
|
| [0]: https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-full-source-
| bootstrap-...
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| It would be very very hard to actually accomplish
| something like that on mainstream x86/arm compilers. And
| hide it from every debugger in the world. If it
| diminishes the value of reproducible builds, it's by
| something like 1%.
|
| > Reproducible builds are only as good as the compiler
| used to compile them.
|
| Which is so so so much better than "as good as nothing".
| Certhas wrote:
| Is that true? Can Ubuntu download and install and run new
| code without me doing anything? I am not sure that's the
| case.
|
| Of course every time I run an update, they can install
| whatever. But that's different from what Windows is doing
| as I understand it...
| AndrewDucker wrote:
| "Ubuntu will apply security updates automatically,
| without user interaction. This is done via the
| unattended-upgrades package, which is installed by
| default."
|
| https://documentation.ubuntu.com/server/how-
| to/software/auto...
| aruggirello wrote:
| Right, but it's a minor annoyance, get rid of it with:
| sudo apt-get remove --purge unattended-upgrades
|
| (doesn't trigger removal of anything else, and you'll
| enjoy 420kb of additional disk space).
|
| OTOH the real issue with Ubuntu is snap(d). Snap packages
| _definitely_ do auto-update. You may want to uninstall
| the whole snap system - it 's (still?) perfectly
| possible, if a little bit convoluted, due to some
| infamous snaps like firefox, thunderbird, chromium, or
| eg. certbot on servers
|
| Or just use Debian or any snap-free fork for the matter.
|
| Edit: fixed
| jmclnx wrote:
| There are a lot more distros than RH, Ubuntu, Gentoo and
| LFS. And none of them will show you ads except maybe
| Ubuntu. Plus you can also look at *BSD.
|
| None of them comes close to what Microsoft is doing. To me,
| your comment looks like you do not understand the Linux
| eco-system. Plus IIRC, LFS can now come with compiled
| binaries.
| II2II wrote:
| I'm not sure what the current state of most distributions
| is, but I remember update applications providing an option
| to accept or reject individual packages. Even without that,
| you could preview the list of pending updates and delay
| them indefinitely, do manual updates of individual
| packages, or configure it to ignore particular packages
| during updates. Historically, I believe that you could
| block certain updates on Windows as well - or maybe you
| could just rollback and update. Of course none of this is
| considered user friendly so things may have changed.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| _I mean.. how is this different from any OS distribution?_
|
| The other OS distributions let you turn it off.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| > Apple can push whatever. So can Red Hat or Ubuntu or
| Gentoo
|
| In the case of Ubuntu and Debian, and to a lesser extent
| RedHat, I trust the developers not to do that because they
| have a history of not "just pushing whatever".
|
| Also in many cases I actually know these developers, and I
| can go round and ask them / remonstrate with them / put a
| brick through their window / other response if required
| about it.
| p_ing wrote:
| In 1985, there were no autoupdates/forced updates/or really
| any available updates that didn't come on physical media.
| devnullbrain wrote:
| And it went from unrealistic paranoia to 'like... obviously?'
| seamlessly.
| asdefghyk wrote:
| Probably influenced by the Microsoft history of sneaky things
| over last 45 years
| II2II wrote:
| I get what you're saying, but OS vendors could prevent
| themselves from running arbitrary code, even from themselves,
| without the user's authorization if they really wanted to. I'm
| not sure it is in anyone's best interest since it would affect
| everything from security updates to automatically installing
| device drivers (e.g. people would be left with insecure systems
| or would claim Windows is broken since most would not
| understand the prompts). It would also be difficult to prevent
| Microsoft's marketing department from sneaking a trojan horse
| into things like security update.
| charcircuit wrote:
| The average user is not able to understand the code that is
| running and the 99th percentile user does not want to spend
| the time to understand the code.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Make it do the security stuff out-of-the-box, allow the user
| to change ANYTHING they want, including turning off the
| security stuff. Linux! It's in everyone's best interest.
| amelius wrote:
| Holds for Apple devices just as well.
| underlipton wrote:
| What are you talking about? It's _my_ machine. I authorized the
| running of certain kinds of software from Microsoft. It 's not
| supposed to be a running authorization for them to reach in and
| do whatever they want on it.
| TekMol wrote:
| Linux
| Fairburn wrote:
| Block updates, remove bloat via PS scripts. Done.
| self_awareness wrote:
| > I also paid for a pro version of the OS.
|
| Yep. And you got what you've paid for.
|
| Look at it. This is "pro" now.
| rspoerri wrote:
| disable tpm in the bios
| ktm5j wrote:
| What would that accomplish?
| rspoerri wrote:
| it doesnt install windows 11...
| ktm5j wrote:
| The person who wrote this article doesn't even have a TPM,
| his point is that it keeps nagging him to upgrade even
| though he can't upgrade.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Satya Nadella really nosedived Windows.
| stevenjgarner wrote:
| I disagree. I think his intention was to maximize shareholder
| value which he has done dramatically by making the user the
| product being sold. Microsoft stock has soared even at the
| expense of Microsoft shedding users. Satya has realized the
| true value of Windows as a revenue platform. It never was a
| competitive operating system.
|
| From my earlier comment to another Windows post:
|
| Windows 11 has transitioned from a standalone tool into a
| digital storefront that prioritizes recurring revenue through
| aggressive prompts for Microsoft 365 and OneDrive
| subscriptions. By mandating cloud-based Microsoft Accounts, the
| OS effectively anchors your identity to a marketing ID,
| allowing the company to track behavior and monetize your data.
| The interface now functions as an advertising platform,
| injecting "recommended" apps and sponsored content directly
| into the Start menu and search results. Ultimately, this shift
| means users are no longer just customers of a product, but
| recurring assets whose attention and telemetry are sold to
| sustain Microsoft's ecosystem and maximize shareholder value.
| wvenable wrote:
| I disagree. Satya doesn't give a crap about Windows; he's the
| cloud guy. Over 40% of Microsoft's revenue is cloud. Another
| 20% is office (which is also heading towards cloud). Windows
| revenue is a measly 9% -- even less than _gaming_.
|
| Windows is what it is because it's really not important to
| Microsoft to anymore. It's effectively unmoored from the rest
| of organization and left to fight for some kind of financial
| relevance in an organization that doesn't care about it
| anymore.
| Animats wrote:
| Why would anyone want to buy a new computer now unless the old
| one is worn out? There is no price/performance improvement. Nor
| will there be for the next five years or so. NVidia says to
| expect 10% price increases each year. DRAM prices have doubled,
| and Samsung says not to expect price cuts. Micron just exited the
| retail RAM business.
|
| Microsoft is trying to escape this trap by pivoting to Windows as
| a subscription service. It will get worse, not better.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| My only complain is that nowadays laptops are usually poorly
| built, so unless one purchases an expensive guarantee, anything
| beyond the default guarantee is not guaranteed.
| cm2187 wrote:
| And the manufacturers are in a quest to remove as many keys
| as they can from the keyboard. Like you can hardly find any
| light laptop today with page up/down keys anymore. Why?....
| Haven't these guys heard of keyboard shortcuts?
| arccy wrote:
| don't you like doing finger contortions to use all the
| modifier keys?
| cm2187 wrote:
| I think it is the single most convincing proof that we
| are being secretly replaced by lizard people with 8
| fingers!
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| 8 fingers to each of the 4 hands, to be clear :)
| gerdesj wrote:
| You probably didn't grow up with horrors like the
| WordPerfect function key strip or being faced with a
| keyboard like that on the ZX80/81/Speccy etc.
| sixtyj wrote:
| Yes, it's a miracle that after 40 years of typing every
| day, my fingers still work. But that may be a biased view
| on my part; there may be lots of programmers out there
| with arthritis in their fingers, carpal tunnel syndrome,
| and other occupational diseases.
| OptionOfT wrote:
| They aren't always the same: https://devblogs.microsoft.c
| om/oldnewthing/20110809-00/?p=99...
|
| Also, even when they are the same, on certain laptops you
| literally hit the key-rollover problem.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Oh yeah, they sometimes put page up and down on up and down
| which infuriates me very much. There are other issues like
| less USB ports, but overall quality is poor comparing to
| MacBooks.
| userbinator wrote:
| I suspect it's gradual cost-cutting. At the manufacturing
| scales they're operating with, even one keyswitch adds up.
| ack_complete wrote:
| Worse than that, there's no consistency in Fn+key
| shortcuts. Recently acquired an HP Ergonomic Keyboard as a
| replacement for a broken Sculpt, only to find out that it
| literally cannot send Ctrl+Break -- there's no key for it,
| no Fn+key shortcut for it and the remapping software
| doesn't simulate it properly.
| intrasight wrote:
| Buy the keyboard you want. There are plenty of good ones.
| VerifiedReports wrote:
| Nothing tops Apple's infantile refusal to put a (real)
| Delete key on their laptops. Instead, they have a Backspace
| key mislabeled "delete."
|
| When the Eject key became obsolete, Apple had a perfect
| opportunity to fix this omission with essentially no
| effort. NOPE. Meanwhile, everybody else managed to have a
| proper Delete key on their laptops.
| joshka wrote:
| A hill that I'll die on is that Apple's terminology is
| more correct than PC terminology for this.
|
| Backspace makes sense if you see the computer as a fancy
| typewriter.
|
| Delete makes sense if you consider the actions from first
| principles.
|
| Consider the various forms of deletion (forward,
| backward, word, file deletion, etc.) Each of these just
| has a modifier key in Apple's way of thinking. (None, Fn,
| Option, Cmd) which makes complete sense when viewed
| against how consistent it is with the whole set of
| interface design guidelines for Apple software.
|
| The only reason that this doesn't make sense is that it's
| incompatible with your world view brought from places
| with different standards. They will never "fix" this as
| there's just nothing to fix.
| Findecanor wrote:
| > Backspace makes sense if you see the computer as a
| fancy typewriter.
|
| Backspace on a typewriter only moved the position
| (~cursor) back one space. Hence why its symbol is the
| same as the left arrow key's.
|
| _Backwards Delete_ was a separate _additional_ key, if
| the typewriter even had one, and its symbol was a cross
| inside an outlined left-arrow: [?]. Current Apple
| keyboard has this symbol on the "Backspace" key in some
| regions instead of the text "delete", but older ones did
| have the left arrow.
|
| Apple calling it "Delete" goes back to Apple II. Many
| other older computer platforms also called it "Delete".
| DEC used the [?] symbol.
| rzzzt wrote:
| At least you don't have to type the same letters while
| holding a thin tape over your screen to erase them!
|
| Apple also had separate Return and Enter symbols on
| keyboards for a while, which also sounds like typewriter
| territory but their intended use was a bit different:
| https://creativepro.com/a-tale-of-two-enter-keys/
| VerifiedReports wrote:
| Nope. The problem isn't the terminology. I wouldn't even
| bring it up if Apple had a key to perform the function of
| everybody else's Delete key.
|
| The problem is missing functionality. And hiding it
| behind unmarked, multi-hand hotkey combinations is
| neither equivalent nor discoverable.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Not many people use forward-deleting. I find it much
| easier to just Fn+Backspace anyways, especially when Del
| is usually part of the shorter function row that you
| really have to stretch for.
|
| And delete is a perfectly fine name -- it deletes the
| character you just typed. I've always thought the
| supposed distinction between backspace and delete was
| bizarre. If anything, it's the forward-delete that needs
| a better term, like... well, forward-delete. Fwd-Del.
| VerifiedReports wrote:
| "Not many people use forward-deleting"
|
| It's just deleting. And that's an absurd assertion for
| which you've provided no support. You seriously think
| people Backspace old E-mails away? They Backspace
| unwanted files away? They Backspace selected areas away
| in Photoshop? OK.
|
| "I find it much easier to just Fn+Backspace"
|
| Except most people don't find that at all, because it's
| not marked on the keyboard. And again, you're asserting
| that a secret, two-keyed, two-handed hotkey is easier
| than pressing a clearly marked button?
|
| If you watch real users when they're faced with the lack
| of Delete, they use the arrow keys to move the cursor
| across the characters they want to delete, and then
| Backspace them away. Twice as much work. Or they reach
| for the mouse or trackpad and tediously highlight the
| characters to delete.
|
| And there is no separate function row on Apple laptops.
| The Eject key was right above the Backspace key... easily
| reachable.
| crazygringo wrote:
| I dunno, I actually prefer Fn+Up/Dn. I just find it more
| logical, and it feels standard to me now. I press them
| surely hundreds of times a day and have no problem with it.
| devilbunny wrote:
| It's been a while since I shopped for one, but a Thinkpad
| X1 Carbon gen 13 starts at about 1 kg and has a pretty full
| keyboard.
| rob74 wrote:
| Yes. So Microsoft (which manufactures hardware itself and has
| close ties to other hardware manufacturers) needed to find...
| other ways to, er, _motivate_ people to buy new hardware
| anyway. Which brings us back to the blog post we are commenting
| on.
|
| Not sure Windows as a subscription service is the end goal
| though. But maybe we should all wish for M$ to do that, maybe
| that would be what's needed to finally bring about the Year of
| The Linux Desktop(tm).
| kgwxd wrote:
| > motivate people to buy new hardware
|
| Open source drivers, and a sense that Linux support will
| forever be top priority, would be a motivator for me. Most of
| my tech spend has been with Valve in the past few years. I'd
| love if there was another company I actually enjoy giving my
| money to.
| kalaksi wrote:
| May I suggest Framework (https://frame.work/linux).
| CrossVR wrote:
| I don't think selling more hardware is the primary
| motivation. The motivation is ensuring everyone has TPM 2.0
| enabled on their device.
|
| This allows Microsoft to protect parts of their software even
| from the user that owns the hardware it's running on. With
| TPM enabled you finally give up the last bit of control you
| had over the software running on your hardware.
| sixtyj wrote:
| And clever people found out the way -
| https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-
| re...
| bitwize wrote:
| Windows 12 will close the loophole: your CPU will require
| a signed code path from boot down to application level
| code. No option to disable Secure Boot or install your
| own keys. But there needs to be an installed base of
| secure hardware for this to happen, hence the TPM 2.0
| requirements for Windows 11.
| sixtyj wrote:
| Since Windows 12 hasn't even been mentioned yet, I
| wouldn't worry about what you're describing at all.
| CrossVR wrote:
| You're missing the point, the TPM 2.0 requirement is
| there to drive adoption, not to actually prevent you from
| installing Windows 11.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Registry keys and autoattend.xml config keys are not
| clever people finding a way, it's people using stuff
| Microsoft put there to do just this for now. I.e. Windows
| 11 has not been strictly enforcing these yet, they are
| just "officially" requirements so when they eventually
| decide to enforce in a newer version (be it an 11 update
| or some other number) they'll then be able to say "well
| it's really been an official requirement for many years
| now, and over 99% of Windows 11 installs which has been
| the only supported OS for a while now are working that
| way" at that time. If they just went straight from
| Windows 10 to strictly enforced Windows 11 options
| it'd've been harder to defend.
| fluidcruft wrote:
| Maybe instead Microsoft could allow Windows 11 to install
| and run on machines that are otherwise capable and just
| flash red screens at you all the time where otherwise ads
| would show up that constantly nag that "THIS COMPUTER IS
| FUCKING INSECURE!" or something. It would be equally as
| annoying but I'm sure running latest Windows 11 but with
| TPM 1.0 instead of TPM 2.0 will be more secure than running
| Windows 10 without bug fixes and security patches.
|
| (But my understanding is there were other things like
| bumping minimum supported instruction sets that happened to
| mismatch a few CPUs that support the newer instruction sets
| but were shipped with chipsets using the older TPM)
| will4274 wrote:
| We want to delete the fallback code paths... You'll just
| get failures from bitlocker instead of install failures,
| or windows hello failures, or ...
| will4274 wrote:
| Hardware key storage is a low level security primitive.
| Both Android and iOS have mandated it for far longer. It's
| a low level security primitive that enables a lot of
| scenarios, not just DRM.
|
| For example - it's not possible to protect SSH keys from
| malware that achieves root without hardware storage. Only
| hardware storage can offer the "Unplug It" guarantee - that
| unplugging a compromised machine ends the compromise.
| CrossVR wrote:
| Ah yes Android and iOS, they have truly become bastions
| of user freedom since mandating secure enclaves. That
| really puts my worries to rest. /s
| hollerith wrote:
| User freedom is not the only axis by which we judge
| operating systems.
| CrossVR wrote:
| It is not, but to me personally it is a very important
| one and it is not one I will give up without a fight.
| LtWorf wrote:
| If you want to protect keys you get a yubikey or
| something like that.
| will4274 wrote:
| And if you want to play sound, you buy a sound card.
| Computers integrate components that approximately
| everybody needs. Hardware storage for keys is just the
| latest example
| anthk wrote:
| 9front with factotum tells a different story.
| tapoxi wrote:
| Unbreakable DRM for software, such as for your $80 billion
| game business or your subscription office suite.
|
| As a bonus, it prevents those pesky Windows API
| compatibility tools like Wine from working if the
| application is designed to expect signed and trusted
| Windows.
| com2kid wrote:
| The mass exodus to Linux gaming is already causing a push
| back against kernel level anti-cheat.
|
| People who 5 years ago didn't give a hoot about computing
| outside of running steam games are now actively
| discussing their favorite Linux distro and giving advice
| to friends and family about how to make the jump.
| herdymerzbow wrote:
| As much as I hope it to be mass exodus, and as someone
| who switched over to CachyOS as my main OS in Nov 2025,
| I'm not sure that 3% of the steam user base really
| qualifies as a 'mass' exodus.
|
| https://www.notebookcheck.net/Linux-gaming-growth-
| SteamOS-sh...
|
| Going back to my Windows install every now and then to do
| things feels uncomfortable. Almost like I'm sullying
| myself! The extent of Microsoft's intrusiveness kind of
| makes it feel like entering a poorly maintained public
| space...at least compared to my linux install.
|
| I'm not sure that the majority of people feel this way
| about Windows 11. They just put up with it in the same
| way as they do YouTube ads, web browsing without ublock
| origin, social media dark patterns etc. But certainly,
| never been a better time I think to move to linux for my
| kind of user, i.e. the only mildly technologically adept.
| com2kid wrote:
| > I'm not sure that 3% of the steam user base really
| qualifies as a 'mass' exodus.
|
| Major tech reviewers are talking about Bazzite. Reddit
| gaming forums are full of people talking about Win11 vs
| Linux.
|
| Microsoft only has two strangle holds on PCs - gaming and
| office apps. For home users they literally have 0 lock in
| now days other than familiarity. No one is writing native
| windows apps outside of legacy productivity apps and
| games. Even Microsoft is writing Windows components in
| React now days.
|
| I moved to Linux earlier this year and literally _none_
| of my apps were unavailable. Everything is a browser
| window now days.
|
| 15 years ago that would've been crazy, I had tons of
| native windows apps I used every day.
| herdymerzbow wrote:
| I know linux gaming is getting a buzz and I'm happy to
| see it. I'm honestly surprised it took so long for people
| like Gamers Nexus to review linux, but thankful that they
| did.
|
| But by saying 'For home users they literally have 0 lock
| in now days other than familiarity.' I think you severely
| underestimate how powerful familiarity is in anchoring
| non-tech users to particular platforms. However
| dysfunctional they can be.
|
| As I mentioned, I moved to linux myself earlier this
| year. But the first time I tried it was probably around
| 2004. And I've dipped in and out occasionally but not
| stuck with it until this year, when I've found it to be a
| significant improvement on the Windows alternative.
|
| Microsofts own creation presents a real opportunity for
| an uptake in linux adoption. But I do think it still
| presents sufficient friction and unfamiliarity for
| average non-tech users to take on. The only significant
| issue I had with your initial comment was with your
| reference to a 'mass' exodus, even if it is confined to
| the gaming community.
|
| Happy to be proven wrong of course. And perhaps to the
| annoyance of my friends, willing to help anyone I know
| interested with a linux install.
|
| But looking forward to the Dec 2025 steam survey. Looking
| forward to the tiny contribution my little install will
| make to the linux numbers!
| com2kid wrote:
| Distros like bazzite launch into steam upon boot. Steam
| is the OS, everything happens through steam.
|
| Give people chrome and most won't be able to tell the
| difference from Windows.
|
| Windows 11 was a large change to the UI, arguably just as
| large a change as from Windows 10 to any of the
| contemporary Linux DEs.
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| Yeah but which 3%? It's important.
|
| There are a lot of Steam gamers with 5 games in their
| library who log on once a month. There are a few Steam
| gamers with 5000 games in their library who are
| permanently logged in. There's folks who play one game
| obsessively, and folks who tinker around with many games.
|
| I'm willing to bet that the 3% are the kind of people who
| buy a lot of games.
|
| I'd love to see that "what percentage of games have been
| bought by people on which platform?" metric. I think it'd
| be a lot more than 3% on Linux, even if you count Steam
| Deck as a separate platform.
| herdymerzbow wrote:
| I agree. Would be fascinating how that 3% breaks down.
| Although excluding the SteamOS/steam deck users that
| desktop segment drops to about 2.25%, seeing how 25% of
| Linux installs are steamOS.
|
| I think SteamOS being available for PC and promoted by
| Valve could be a game changer. It provides a trusted and
| familiar pathway for a different way of doing things. But
| while it would perhaps reduce Windows installs, I can't
| see it help grow a user base of DIY linux tinkerers, if
| that is of any importance. I can kind of see it being a
| bit like Android makes the majority of phone users linux
| users, but not entirely sure what that means for linux
| desktop.
| ThrowawayB7 wrote:
| I think you'd lose that bet. The kind of people who buy a
| lot of games are also the people who are not going to be
| tolerant of game compatibility issues on Linux; they want
| to play the game, not futz with their OS.
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| 2 years ago I would have agreed with you, but the game
| compatibility issues really aren't there any more. Proton
| has made huge strides, and the Steam Deck has forced a
| lot of game companies to make sure that there aren't any
| issues.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Unfortunately Linux requires zero effter to create cheats
| on, might as well run no anti cheat. And the root stuff
| is overblown as user space programs can already read all
| your files and process memory of that user. How many
| bother with multiple users?
| MindSpunk wrote:
| The push back on kernel level anti-cheat on security
| grounds has always felt odd to me. If you don't trust
| them to run kernel level code why do you trust them to
| run usermode code as your user? A rogue anticheat
| software could still do enormous damage in usermode,
| running as your user, no kernel access required.
|
| Being in kernel mode does give the rogue software more
| power, but the threat model is all wrong. If you're
| against kernel anti-cheat you should be against all anti-
| cheat. At the end of the day you have to chose to trust
| the software author no matter where the code runs.
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| Not all gamers are playing games where cheating is an
| issue. It's really only the MOBA Call of Battlefield AAA
| crowd who care about that. That's not the largest group
| of gamers, and certainly not the largest market for
| games.
| blibble wrote:
| it will never be unbreakable, and only needs to be broken
| once
|
| intel can't even get SGX to work
| tylerflick wrote:
| To the benefit of everyone backing up their media
| libraries.
| 9dev wrote:
| > With TPM enabled you finally give up the last bit of
| control you had over the software running on your hardware.
|
| The overwhelming majority of users never had any kind of
| control over the software running on their hardware,
| because they don't know (and don't want to know) how the
| magical thinking machine works. These people will benefit
| from a secure subsystem that the OS can entrust with
| private key material. I absolutely see your point, but this
| will improve the overall security of most people.
| Terr_ wrote:
| > The overwhelming majority of users never had any kind
| of control
|
| Uninterested is vastly different than unable, especially
| when that majority is still latently "able" to use some
| software that a knowledgeable-minority creates to Help Do
| The Thing.
|
| The corporate goal is to block anyone else from
| _providing_ users that control if /when the situation
| becomes intolerable enough for the majority to desire it.
|
| Most people don't move away from their state of residence
| either, but we should be very concerned if someone floats
| a law stating that you are not permitted to leave without
| prior approval.
| hulitu wrote:
| > So Microsoft (which manufactures hardware itself and has
| close ties to other hardware manufacturers)
|
| You mean the Microsoft vacuum cleaner ? /s
| marcosdumay wrote:
| They mouse is actually a good piece of hardware... as long
| as you don't make the mistake to plug it in Windows for it
| to install a driver.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > So Microsoft which manufactures hardware itself
|
| The only computer lineup MS ever sold directly, to my
| knowledge, were the Surface things - an absolute niche
| market.
| chocochunks wrote:
| Any computer that can't run Windows 11 is almost a decade old.
| There has been plenty of improvement. Compare a laptop with a
| high end Intel i7 7920HK to even a lower end part like the Core
| Ultra 5 226V. Right now prices on pre-builts and laptops aren't
| totally reflecting the craziness at least.
| detritus wrote:
| Cool, but my decade-old machine works perfectly well for my
| needs, as too I imagine a million other such machines.
| chocochunks wrote:
| I'm sure it works, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been
| improvements.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| Not really. Improvements like what?
|
| I have a brand-new work laptop which absolutely crawls
| compared to my nearly-15-year-old Thinkpad T430. Is this
| slowness the Windows 11 advantage? My personal laptop
| runs plain ordinary Ubuntu 24.04 perfectly, and
| everything works.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| Not a lot of people benefit from having 20 cores to hit.
| LtWorf wrote:
| If by improvements you mean that suspend works like shit
| on newer machines, yes there have been.
| Levitz wrote:
| Which doesn't count for that much when a whole lot of
| stuff has also become worse.
|
| There's a reason as to why people were reluctant to jump
| on win10. There's a reason people didn't want win8 at
| all.
| dotancohen wrote:
| My daily desktop is mostly 2012 vintage. This hardware is
| still in use and works fine.
|
| For what it's worth, that machine is being used while I
| upgrade my 2001 Computer Of Theseus once more. It's now
| getting it's third motherboard with CPU - this one salvaged
| from a 2018 or 2019 gaming machine. It's on its second case,
| and has seen more hard drive and memory upgrades than I can
| count - all of them piecemeal. Other than perhaps the
| motherboard screws and hard drive screws, I'm not sure if
| anything actually purchased in 2001 still survives in there.
| Maybe the power cable and pc speaker. And I don't remember
| ever replacing the rear case fan now that I'm looking at it.
| CrzyLngPwd wrote:
| It's triggers broom :-p
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Anybody who can upgrade a computer completely deserves a
| medal from the council.
| ungreased0675 wrote:
| But somehow, apps and websites load just as fast on my decade
| old personal laptop as on my brand new work laptop.
| ack_complete wrote:
| The antivirus / EDR / monitoring / inventory software that
| most corporate IT departments installs ages computers ten
| years. We constantly had problems with such services
| slamming the disk, holding files open, breaking software,
| running CPUs at 100%, etc.
| anthk wrote:
| Not my problem. You wouldn't need an antivirus with a
| properly locked browser with UBlock Origin and OFC no
| damn HTML email. GPO's blocking anything not being under
| an executable whitelist.
|
| If any, your email client should open any attachment
| under a sandbox, such as Sandboxie, under a libre
| license:
|
| https://github.com/sandboxie-plus/Sandboxie
|
| Of course no Office macros would be allowed, ever.
| somehnguy wrote:
| Crowdstrike Falcon is likely the only reason my work M1
| Pro machine runs like a dog. Any time it's being a laggy
| piece of junk you can open Activity Monitor and see
| Falcon just slamming it.
| odie5533 wrote:
| Many budget laptops from 2020 don't support Windows 11. HP
| laptops with AMD A4-9125, HP notebooks with AMD A6-7310 APU,
| HP Envy x360 models with first-generation AMD Ryzen
| processors.
| beached_whale wrote:
| 2020 Apple MacBook pro has an i9-9880HK, more than enough,
| but lacks TPM2.0. The issue is this is just a waste of
| resources and money for a large number of people and the
| TPM2.0 requirement is silly.
| bluescrn wrote:
| A decade in computing used to mean revolutionary
| improvements:
|
| - from the C64 to the Pentium
|
| - from the Playstation 1 to the Xbox360
|
| - from the Nokia 3310 to the iPhone 4.
|
| Each of these in roughly a decade.
|
| But 2015-2025 in terms of desktop PCs? Some decent (but not
| revolutionary) steps forward with GPUs, and much more
| affordable+speedy SSDs. But everything else has been pretty
| small and incremental.
|
| And when enthusiasts upgrade, the old parts usually find new
| homes. My old 6th-gen i7 from a decade ago still has more
| than enough power for my Dad to use as a home PC for basic
| photo editing, web browsing, and spreadsheets. But Win10 end-
| of-life wants to turn that machine into e-waste.
| antod wrote:
| I think that is normal across most technologies or fields.
| Progress is an S curve (or series of curves), and it's easy
| to be amazed when looking at the steep bit. Early on
| progress is slow due to not much investment and going down
| lots of dead ends, while later progress faces increased
| complexity and no low hanging fruit left.
|
| The middle bit is where the disadvantages of the early
| phase has gone, but the disadvantages of late phase hasn't
| kicked in yet.
| horizion2025 wrote:
| Well it also means it could be a good time to buy so you won't
| have to pay even more overprice for the same performance years
| down the line. I just bought one a good month ago. My old one
| was over 10 years old, not worn out, but not upgradeable to Win
| 11. I had been thinking waiting one more year before the
| security updates to Win10 are out... But I bought in when the
| first stories hit of the DDR5 price rises - at that time there
| had 'only' been a doubling, now the price is a further 3x of
| what I paid a good month ago. I thought it might be a good time
| to buy given the machine was so old and component prices were
| going up, and might for a long time. But yeah, performance
| improvements aren't what they used to. Part of the reason is
| that normal things were already felt so fast on the old one ;-)
| But I did get a much better gfx cards allowing some games that
| were unplayable before, and I think the CPU upgrade was needed
| for that as well, and then you might as well overhaul the
| machine. I also went from 16 to 64 GB, and the 16 GB had been a
| bit too little for some things.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| > There is no price/performance improvement.
|
| Both performance and performance-per-watt continue to improve
| with each new generation of CPUs.
| VerifiedReports wrote:
| But that is squandered by piss-poor programming and stupid
| visual gimmicks.
|
| I had to return to Windows as a daily work platform after a
| long time away (on Macs). I already knew that it had devolved
| into a grotesquely defective, regressive parade of UI
| blunders and deleted functionality... but its actual
| performance is TERRIBLE. I'm waiting for simple operations
| that I wouldn't have expected to wait for 20 years ago, even
| on bog-standard office desktop machines.
| tombert wrote:
| You're not wrong, but I was disappointed recently by how well
| an eleven-year-old Macbook Air still works. I installed NixOS
| on it, and it's still pretty usable even on modern websites.
|
| An eleven year old computer is still _useful_ , which is kind
| of cool, but also kind of bothers me in that apparently we
| haven't made enough progress in software to justify buying
| new hardware, apparently.
| kelipso wrote:
| Progress in software is supposed to just needing more
| computing resources by your definition? As in, basically
| slowing everything down? Well, we got local AI for that I
| guess.
| sirjaz wrote:
| Thank the web for that. We have lost more control of our
| devices and our privacy; the more we depend on the web and
| SaaS. We need to get back to writing native software, be it
| for Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS, or Windows. We need to make the
| local device the priority.
| geraltofrivia wrote:
| You're not wrong. But, I recently did the mistake of
| upgrading my iPad to version 26 (the liquid glass version). I
| had a relatively smooth experience on my 6 year old tablet
| which now runs painfully slowly. Even scrolling through
| different parts of home-screen lags.
|
| My point being, with time performance might go up. But
| instead of that making my device faster/long-lasting,
| developers use that extra performance to cram in more stuff,
| at the end of which I come out only slightly better if not
| worse (as is in my case)
| gldrk wrote:
| I'm actually happy about DRAM prices and hope more people share
| your mindset. This is the only thing that can force developers
| to start optimizing memory usage instead of externalizing the
| costs onto the poorest users.
| tyjen wrote:
| I sincerely hope it works out this way instead of pricing out
| open sourced development. A couple open sourced projects
| changed their licensing to help mitigate the increased cost
| burden from skyrocketing hardware costs. It'll be a sad and
| potentially dangerous day if most people are permanently
| priced out.
| doctorpangloss wrote:
| the #1 computing platform is the phone, 99.99% of users
| experience no memory pressure on iPhones
| anthk wrote:
| Meanwhile Android rules the rest of the world. And current
| iOS is not light, ever.
| pwg wrote:
| > Why would anyone want to buy a new computer now unless the
| old one is worn out? There is no price/performance improvement.
|
| Which is exactly why MS is pivoting to begging you to buy a new
| computer by harassing you with an apparently undismissable
| "upgrade" dialog.
|
| They _have_ to keep the upgrade treadmill running, and lacking
| "better performance" as the bait, they have resorted to
| outright harassment.
| stainablesteel wrote:
| so my linux installation can be even faster
| the__alchemist wrote:
| More faster. I experienced huge performance boosts from
| upgrading CPU recently and GPU a bit back. (As always)
|
| Compile times, game frame rates, computation time for
| simulations.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| I'm getting to that point where I may need to upgrade. Now I
| need to delay it more because AI is gonna make electronics even
| more expensive than the tarriffs in 2026.
|
| 2026 seems to just be becoming the "please don't break" era
| unless I can find some proper work this time. Car is on its
| last legs, a variety of housing appliances to repair, computer
| I use professionally. If nothing else, I upgraded my phone this
| year so that should get me through 2028 at least.
| gmponyo wrote:
| Do yourself a favor and start using Linux on both machines.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I've been running Win11 without a TPM for 6 years. Saying you
| can't upgrade isn't the same thing as Windows saying you can't
| upgrade. Knowing your OS seems to be a lost art. I'm not
| dismissing the valid complaint, but the title is empirically
| wrong clickbait.
| tartoran wrote:
| Win11 was released at the end of 2021. What were you running
| for 6?
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Tried it when it was Win10 with a fancy name. Never had an
| issue with TPM or any other hardware requirements. https://be
| tawiki.net/wiki/Windows_11_build_21242_(rs_prerele...
| Santosh83 wrote:
| The only _Hard_ requirements are a CPU with SSE 4.2 and POPCNT.
| Win11 will simply not install on older CPUs. The rest of the
| requirements can be bypassed but Microsoft will block you from
| the annual major feature upgrades. You will have to do those
| manually too. They also claim that your stability and
| performance on pre-8th Gen CPUs will be degraded and they will
| give no support, but in reality it runs just fine. Win11 is
| sluggish on all CPUs anyway.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Just use something else and stop whining.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| There must be a way to disable this thing. Maybe we can disable
| the service? But anyway I already switched to Linux for my daily
| usage. It is not smooth as Windows due to driver issues and other
| weird things, like Firefox crashing frequently when I'm typing in
| a text box like this one, but still feels better than Windows.
|
| The Windows team and its product manager is determined to trash
| the product. Good work!
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| > There must be a way to disable this thing.
|
| If Windows had a slogan, this would be it.
| prmoustache wrote:
| In late 2025, there are plenty of alternatives:
|
| Linux FreeBSD NetBSD OpenBSD DragonflyBSD Haiku Plan9 Redox
| ReactOS Debian Gnu/Hurd FreeDOS Genode SculptOS
|
| And probably some others I haven't heard of. Using Windows in
| 2025 AND complaining about it is complaining about a self
| inflicted wound.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| I think it would be less daunting for many if there were 1 or 2
| popular alternatives to rally around. Including window managers
| / desktop environments. (Granted, it's nice they can all
| coexist peacefully.)
| dullcrisp wrote:
| I think Linux is the most popular of the alternatives listed.
| xeromal wrote:
| How do I download linux
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| Yep. Top search result was this, amusing:
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install
|
| But 2nd was this: https://www.linux.org/pages/download/
|
| It shows 24 distributions, but no newbie guidance. Maybe
| a wizard UI would help, vs the open-ended "Explore
| different Linux distributions and find the one that fits
| your needs"
| dullcrisp wrote:
| Looks like from https://github.com/torvalds/linux/archive
| /refs/heads/master.... but you could also try Ubuntu.
| eYrKEC2 wrote:
| As your first experience, I think Ubuntu is the easiest.
| Download it here:
|
| https://ubuntu.com/desktop
|
| Spring for a new hard drive, just in case you hate it
| with the fires of a thousand suns and need to go back.
| Then you just swap back to your old hard drive.
| kristianp wrote:
| I can also recommend Kubuntu if the gnome UI of ubuntu
| seems too phone-like. If using a laptop where addinga 2nd
| drive may be too difficult, I have just shrunk the
| windows partition before running the ubuntu installer.
| Telaneo wrote:
| Linux is not a single alternative. It's hundreds if you
| start digging, and even if you whittle it down to noob-
| friendly not-completely-idiotic choices, something the
| proverbial noob are probably incapable of or unwilling to
| do, there are still like, 5+ decent options to pick from.
| Asking the proveribal noob to pick from Mint, Ubuntu, Pop,
| Bazzite, Suse, Debian, Fedora, or any other option is a big
| ask. There's a lot to take in, especially for someone who
| just want their computer to work and not dick about with
| silly bullshit.
|
| It's good that there are options, but most people aren't
| interested in having a dozen decent choices. They want one,
| solid, good choice, or at least obvious and clear reasons
| to pick the different options, and they certainly don't
| have time to try out everything between heaven and earth,
| especially for something that needs to Just(tm) Work(tm).
| askvictor wrote:
| There are a handful of popular Linux distros. Ubuntu is
| probably the most beginner-friendly one with the most staying
| power; it's the easiest place to start if you have no other
| ideas/requirements.
|
| The thing is, a healthy ecosystem thrives on diversity.
| Rallying behind one or two tends towards a monoculture.
| mr_person wrote:
| The more likely option than any of these excellent free options
| is going to be MacOS... just because your average user with
| even semi-technical inclination does not want to use
| LibreOffice Present; they want PowerPoint.
|
| I have just seen this first hand with my significant other:
| they are very technical and more than capable of it, but have
| zero interest in learning Linux and instead just bought a
| MacBook on Black Friday specials when their 5 year old HP
| laptop finally got too annoying to use.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Well, I didn't mention MacOS because it is not installable on
| the author's win10 computer.
|
| Also, MacOs is as difficult to learn as Linux is for someone
| who never used it. Resistance to change exist in all
| directions.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Most people are fine with the web version of Powerpoint.
| brooke2k wrote:
| Having a job that requires Windows is not what I would call
| self-inflicted.
| db48x wrote:
| True. It is a would inflicted by your employer in that case.
| Maybe you could find a different one that doesn't inflict
| such wounds.
| detritus wrote:
| What a bubble you exist in. I'm self-employed and my entire
| suite of software is either windows or apple only and I
| have 'been a pc' for nearly thirty years and have pc
| hardware that fulfills all my requirements and can't run
| apple software.
|
| I'm eyeing up a shift to apple when my current hardware
| fails me, but it's impossible for me to just go Linux.
| mistercheph wrote:
| You are a digital serf, dependent on the good will and
| love of a lord that gives you access in exchange for a
| tax.
|
| I really wish free(libre) tools existed that allowed you
| to do your work. Hopefully they will in the future, I am
| sure someone has tried/is trying to build them.
| tombert wrote:
| I think in your situation I'd use a Mac just because they
| don't show you a bunch of advertising bullshit all the
| time, but I do understand the overall point: a lot of
| software simply doesn't exist on Linux.
|
| Wine is getting better and better, but it's still not
| perfect yet. I am so wishing that they figure out a way
| to get modern MS Office working, and then I feel like a
| lot of people's only reasons for staying on Windows would
| suddenly disappear.
| stOneskull wrote:
| sounds like a bubble
| prmoustache wrote:
| That is besides the point. In that case it is self-inflicted
| by the company choosing to depend on it.
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| Until recently (<10 years ago) Windows and native Windows
| apps (like Office) were the norm in most companies. Almost
| all employees knew how to use Windows. Re-training all was
| difficult. Now, with mostly web-apps for most non-IT
| employees it is a realistic change, but I am still not sure
| corporations will want to run without Active Directory and
| Crowdstrike.
| layer8 wrote:
| The job should give you Windows Enterprise with the correct
| group policies that disable most of the enshittification.
| Otherwise it's self-inflicted.
| XorNot wrote:
| I literally only use Windows for games. And I guess now
| RealityScan which is gaming adjacent.
|
| If I had the confidence that I could play a new release on
| Linux day 1 without trading an enormous amount of performance,
| I wouldn't need Windows at all.
| robby_w_g wrote:
| Depending on your hardware and gaming needs, the current
| state of Linux gaming may already be enough.
|
| I run Arch with an Nvidia GPU (which historically had poor
| Linux support compared to AMD), and I've been able to play
| 100% of the games that I used to play on Windows with no
| noticeable performance decrease.
|
| There is one significant issue with Dx12 on nvidia, but even
| that has been root caused and should be fixed next year.
| some-guy wrote:
| My boomer mother in law could handle Linux whether it be GNOME
| or KDE. What she cannot handle is not being able to put in a
| DVD of Turbo Tax 20xx and double click the install button. Nor
| can she handle not having the native Outlook client, or
| Microsoft Word.
|
| Yes there are alternatives, and possibly even good enough web
| versions of these tools, but most of the world isn't like you
| and me.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Does TurboTax still distribute DVDs? I thought it was
| entirely online now.
| Telaneo wrote:
| The point still stands though. It's no longer a DVD, but
| it's still a Windows program.[1] She still needs to be able
| to run turbotax2025.exe and have it work without issue.
|
| To be fair, it probably works. I doubt it's doing anything
| weird, so Wine should work, given a distro which will just
| take exes and pass them to Wine. But if it doesn't,
| TurboTax can't help her, where as they would have been able
| to help her if it was a true Windows install.
|
| [1] https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/cd-
| download/insta...
| tombert wrote:
| Realistically only four of those are viable for modern
| workflows (Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD). It would be
| pretty hard to use Plan 9 or Genode/SculptOS with seL4 as a
| typical desktop OS. Haiku is _almost_ there, but I think it
| still has a ways to go before being anywhere close to adequate
| for my typical desktop use.
|
| I agree with the sentiment though; nowadays Linux has gotten
| good enough for most stuff, to a point where I don't really see
| why anyone still runs Windows. If only I could convince my
| parents of that...
| Levitz wrote:
| >I agree with the sentiment though; nowadays Linux has gotten
| good enough for most stuff, to a point where I don't really
| see why anyone still runs Windows. If only I could convince
| my parents of that...
|
| Ask yourself why your parents still use windows and you'll
| have your response.
|
| I've been using Arch for about two months now. It's been
| great, yeah, but it's still a massive, long drawn exercise of
| friction because I have two literal decades of experience
| using a windows machine. That experience has value and the
| idea of throwing it away is a barrier.
| antod wrote:
| >Ask yourself why your parents still use windows and you'll
| have your response.
|
| Because if they switch to Linux, I'll be on the hook for
| tech support. If they stay on windows, then it's mainly my
| brother's problem.
|
| BTW Windows doesn't seem easy or make much sense to them at
| all either. Linux wouldn't be any harder for them aside
| from getting support from random places, or buying random
| bits of junk with no research expecting them to kinda work.
| Telaneo wrote:
| > Ask yourself why your parents still use windows and
| you'll have your response.
|
| They don't. They switched over to iPad 10-ish years ago.
| Most normies I know use phones and/or tablets full-time for
| their personal computing. Laptops and desktops are either
| work machines, for games, or for work without wages
| (studies, excel, other things which are inconvenient or
| impossible on a phone).
|
| Grandma is on Linux Mint since she still wants to do her
| banking on a computer and not an iPad. She'd be on Windows
| 11 if I weren't her tech support, since then she'd have
| bought whatever idiot at the local shop would have
| recommended, wasting a lot of money, and probably still
| have thrown her arms up in despair after a while due to the
| shit user experience. If the local shop had machines with
| Mint preinstalled, I'd imagine that would have gone well,
| if a lot slower than it would have with my help.
|
| No Windows casual out there has ever even installed
| Windows, never mind another OS, on their computer, even if
| they theoretically want to. They can't have what they don't
| know about, and that barrier is probably never going to go
| away.
| yesco wrote:
| Completely agree. Modern computers are basically just web
| terminals for most people, so a basic Linux distro +
| browser is all they need.
|
| Windows is actually terrible for non-technical users now.
| The constant pop-ups, nagging messages, and decision
| prompts create genuine anxiety. People don't know what
| they're clicking on half the time. Yet somehow most
| technical people I talk to haven't caught on to this.
|
| Look at what younger generations are actually using:
| Chromebooks in schools, Google Drive instead of Microsoft
| Office. Even people who legitimately need Office aren't
| on Windows anymore, they're on Macbooks. That's the case
| at my company anyway.
|
| At this point Windows is really just gamers, engineers
| who need CAD, and office workers stuck on it from
| inertia. There's nothing inherently attracting new users
| to the platform anymore. I honestly don't know who their
| primary audience even is at this point.
| sirjaz wrote:
| Then why is Google killing the ChromeOS/Chromebook? Also
| Windows is increasing in its share again. Maybe that is
| due to companies that want AI in there systems.
| Telaneo wrote:
| > Then why is Google killing the ChromeOS/Chromebook?
|
| They're not? They're combining it with Android, which
| honestly seems like a decent bet for what Chromebooks are
| meant to be. The end result will have a different name,
| but it will still be a cheap laptop to do school work and
| simple computing, and that isn't a Windows machine.
|
| > Also Windows is increasing in its share again.
|
| Is it? And is that pie even getting any bigger?
| yesco wrote:
| > Then why is Google killing the ChromeOS/Chromebook?
|
| They're not killing it, they're merging it into Android.
| Makes sense. Android already does everything ChromeOS
| does, it just needs better desktop input support. Google
| said this was to compete with iPads, which only
| reinforces my point.
|
| > Also Windows is increasing in its share again.
|
| Short-term fluctuations don't change the long-term trend.
| We're talking about where things are headed over the next
| decade vs where it once was
|
| > Maybe that is due to companies that want AI in there
| systems.
|
| My company went all-in on Copilot, but I'm not seeing
| this translate to more Windows usage. Copilot works fine
| on Macbooks, and that's what most people here use. When
| management gets excited about it, they talk about Outlook
| and Teams integration. Nobody cares about Windows-
| specific features. What does OS integration even buy you?
| Access to local files that are already in the cloud
| anyway? I'm using Copilot on my company-issued Ubuntu
| laptop right now. And honestly, the fact that IT at a
| massive, conservative corporation even started offering
| Ubuntu as an option says a lot about where things are
| headed.
|
| Microsoft will be fine, but I'd bet on Windows declining
| over the next 10 years, not growing.
| tombert wrote:
| > Ask yourself why your parents still use windows and
| you'll have your response.
|
| I have. They are convinced it will be "harder". I have
| tried to explain to them what _seems a lot harder to me_ is
| when Windows Update decides to brick their computer [0],
| and they have to call me in a panic and I have to waste an
| entire day walking them through diagnosis stuff and
| eventually walk them through flashing multiple thumb drives
| of Linux and Windows 11 [2] and then walk them through
| nuking and reinstalling.
|
| As I've said before, before I get any kind of "live and let
| live man if they want to run windows let them", I would
| like to point out that whenever their computers break, they
| call me to fix it, so I do not think it's unreasonable for
| me to want them to use an operating system that has
| recovery tools that _actually work_ , with and with
| filesystems built after the neolithic age so that system
| backups are easy and cheap and actually do what they're
| supposed to.
|
| [0] dig through my comment history if you details.
|
| [1] made more annoying because, as far as I can tell,
| _none_ of the Microsoft recovery tools have ever worked in
| any point in history.
|
| [2] Linux because Microsoft doesn't have any kind of
| LiveCD/LiveUSB support anymore, so I had to boot into a
| live Linux so I could walk them through installing tmate
| and then I was able to mount the drive and rsync all the
| files over to my server for recovery.
| stephen_g wrote:
| I have one machine that runs Windows (apart from one Windows 11
| VM on my Mac laptop I use for work), all this nonsense has got
| me to install Fedora on a separate M2 drive on it, and I
| haven't booted up Windows in a few days now. Will be an
| interesting experiment, I've run it before but more for fun,
| but will try to go as full time on that computer as possible.
| Jigsy wrote:
| Haiku is very pleasing in an eyecandy sort of way, but that's
| sadly all it has going for it.
|
| I personally wouldn't use it as a serious OS.
| ChrisSD wrote:
| It's beside the point of the article but...
|
| > The hardware limitation is specifically TPM 2.0
|
| Almost every even half decent CPU made in the last decade does
| have TPM 2.0, albeit for some strange reason OEMs used to ship
| with it disabled. You may be able to turn it on in the bios.
| derekdahmer wrote:
| My 7700k, a top of the line CPU from 2017, doesn't support
| Windows 11 even though it has TPM 2.0. I had to install using
| rufus.
| ChrisSD wrote:
| For sure, there are other hardware requirements a 2017 CPU
| may fail.
| lachiflippi wrote:
| This is a massive pet peeve of mine as well. As far as I'm
| aware there's not a single consumer CPU listed in the Windows
| 11 compatibility list that _doesn 't_ have builtin TPM2.0.
| stevenjgarner wrote:
| Microsoft users are the product being sold
| j1elo wrote:
| Adding to the enshittified pile of bad decissions that Windows
| has become, the actual requirements for Windows 11 are just a
| corporate caprice and not a real " _requirement_ ". I did
| whatever it needed to bypass the checks at install time, and W11
| is now working exactly and equally as well as W10 was, on a
| laptop which only has TPM 1.2 and an old CPU.
|
| Where is the requirement then in modern CPUs and TPM 2.0,
| Microsoft? Didn't you mean "nice to have" so additional but
| perfectly optional security features could be enabled?
| cellular wrote:
| I'm guessing they'll break it later by actually using said
| requirement.
|
| Then say "i told you so!"
| Dwedit wrote:
| Rufus will let you install with a local account even on PCs that
| don't support TPM, but would you really want to?
| mastazi wrote:
| For many types of users, Windows is no longer viable. I have
| friends who work at a .NET shop and most of that team now uses
| Macs. Unthinkable just a few years ago. Meanwhile, I checked
| ProtonDB and now 90% of my Steam library is Platinum or Native.
| So I finally switched my gaming PC to Linux. Microsoft's
| priorities are elsewhere, Windows doesn't have a bright future.
| seph-reed wrote:
| Yeah. It really does seem that Microsoft is giving up on...
| everything? Like Xbox is kinda out, Windows is not great, and
| their AI never comes up as meaningful.
|
| I wouldn't personally work for them ever. I've only heard bad
| things about their codebase... and I know people like to
| complain, but it's usually comedy levels of bad.
| CommenterPerson wrote:
| I ordered a basic Windows laptop, it comes with Windows 11. It's
| going to be my Linux starter computer. I'm not a computer person.
| Wish me luck!
| codepoet80 wrote:
| I hope you researched Linux driver support for that model
| first. I share the dissatisfaction with the direction of
| Windows -- but their driver library is unparalleled. Linux CAN
| run great on lots of machines, but it has nowhere near the
| hardware support.
| notKilgoreTrout wrote:
| I've not really seen that much of a problem with Linux
| drivers being available recently while the quality problem of
| windows drivers being unreviewed code seems like its partly
| addressed for central monopolies but still in the peripherals
| if you'll pardon the pun.
| prmoustache wrote:
| > but it has nowhere near the hardware support.
|
| My usb scanner would like to have a word with you. Its last
| supported driver was for windows 2000 and it still works well
| on Linux.
|
| Hardware support vary between the 2 operating system and new
| stuff may be supported earlier on windows but I can't say
| that windows driver library is unparalleled, quite the
| opposite actually.
| Telaneo wrote:
| There are only really two big bloches when it comes to
| drivers these days: Wifi and Nvidia. And even Nvidia at-least
| works if you've got a modern card, so you won't be stuck with
| no output, you'll just get worse performance. Wi-fi you
| really should double-check though if you need that.
|
| Some niche accessories also have issues, or at least niche
| features on those accessories.
| ewoodrich wrote:
| _If you decide to dual boot:_
|
| https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat
|
| I run this as the first step on any new Win 11 machine, the
| recommended defaults remove nearly all annoyances I care about.
| It's a popular tool that's been around for years with a lot of
| users so isn't some random repo, and it's just Powershell so
| pretty easy to understand what it's doing if you want to audit
| the code yourself.
|
| After running it once, I've seen nothing that I would consider
| an "ad" on Windows 11, and search looks only at the filesystem
| without any web/store trash. Somewhat ironically, it makes for
| a cleaner experience than MacOS where I regularly get spammed
| by Apple trying to cross-sell me something (iCloud, Apple TV,
| Apple Music, etc).
|
| (FWIW, I have also never needed to re-run after an update or
| anything, based on 6+ full Win11 installs across three
| different devices.)
| sam_goody wrote:
| In Win 11 Home, and want to add a local account and not change it
| to a Windows account, and not share my stuff with MS. No Cloud or
| "Backups", thank you.
|
| The option to enable a local account was through the command line
| only. The dark patterns and persausion to convince me not to was
| off putting.
|
| But every time I boot in to have to go through the nag screen is
| off the wall.
|
| It is truly crazy how much I understand the dedication people
| have to avoid using a unfamiliar system.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| And it's not just TPM. I have tpm module however they don't
| support my Intel 7700K processor.
| dgoldstein0 wrote:
| yup. Fixed list of supported cpus. Well, I suppose it grows to
| include newer CPUs.
|
| That said the rufus workaround can work for these - I'm writing
| this from a machine that's not a supported cpu that I just
| upgraded to Win 11 with rufus. Runs just fine. Fun fact about
| my cpu: no cpu with the same socket is supported, so to be
| officially supported I'd have to also upgrade the motherboard.
| kosma wrote:
| Surprisingly effective solution: Windows Registry
| Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Pol
| icies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
| "ProductVersion"="Windows 10"
| "TargetReleaseVersion"=dword:00000001
| "TargetReleaseVersionInfo"="22H2"
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Just curious what does it do?
| ack_complete wrote:
| Sets the underlying Registry keys for the Group Policy
| "Select the target Feature Update version". It tells the
| Windows Update service to select updates for a specific
| feature update instead of offering latest.
|
| https://gpsearch.azurewebsites.net/Default.aspx?PolicyID=151.
| ..
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Thank you!
| layer8 wrote:
| For reference: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/159624-how-
| specify-targe...
|
| It may not work on Windows Home, however.
| bcraven wrote:
| I have been using InControl successfully.
|
| https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm
| smj-edison wrote:
| Is it possible to switch an existing windows 10 install to the
| extended support version? (Can't remember the exact term).
| markus_zhang wrote:
| LTSC. Technically MSFT doesn't offer them to laymen like us but
| I don't think they would care if you pirate them.
| layer8 wrote:
| This worked for me to switch to Extended Security Updates
| (ESU): https://github.com/abbodi1406/ConsumerESU
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
| eswat wrote:
| Sad to look back years ago when the first mobile apps started
| adopting this "Remind Me Later"-only dark pattern and is now
| festering everyday drivers like your OS.
|
| Between these and services that suddenly suffer from amnesia and
| spamming me with marketing notifications and emails after months
| or years of silence, it's becoming more tiring to use any service
| that grows significantly enough where they don't need to care
| about what their users actually want.
| dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
| > Sad to look back years ago when the first mobile apps started
| adopting this "Remind Me Later"-only dark pattern and is now
| festering everyday drivers like your OS.
|
| I can offer a slightly different perspective. I remember
| Microsoft from the 90s and early 2000s. And while technical
| details differ, their attitude towards users didn't change that
| much.
| horizion2025 wrote:
| The worst is when the only 'dismiss'-option is "I will do it
| later"... even if you have no intention of ever doing it...
| essentially forcing you to lie. It has been a while since I've
| seen it though, so that's progress!
| labrador wrote:
| I'm happy with Windows 11 after tweaks to fix it. I certainly
| sympathesize with Windows 10 users who can't upgrade. But it
| seems to me Windows 10 users aren't getting the message:
| Microsoft just isn't that into you.
|
| Do you think Windows OS is a profit center, especially after
| factoring in the cost of security fixes for older less secure
| releases? I'm guessing not (I don't have the figures) and
| Microsoft would rather you replace your 10 year old laptop that
| can't run Windows 11 or run Linux on it. They really don't care
| which, just as long as you go away and they don't have to support
| you anymore.
|
| I'm not assosciated with Microsoft, just someone who has been
| using their products for 40 years. I am someone who can read in
| between the lines, and this is my take.
| VitalKoshalew wrote:
| There is no free support, e.g. call center agents for Windows
| 10 users. As for security vulnerabilities in Windows 10,
| Microsoft is going to continue fixing them until at least 2032
| (probably longer with extended support) anyways, as Windows 10
| 1809 LTSC end-of-life is 2029 and Windows 10 21H2 IoT LTSC is
| supported until 2032.
|
| Microsoft isn't that into you either. With Windows 11 you are
| not a customer, you and your data are the products.
| labrador wrote:
| Meh. I'm also a Linux destop user on a second machine. I'll
| completely switch when Windows 11 becomes a problem for me.
| Microsoft used to be a OS company, but is now a cloud company
| that offers Linux on it's cloud services.
| CivBase wrote:
| The author just wants Microsoft to stop harassing him. He's not
| asking for handouts. He's not even asking to be allowed to
| bypass the hardware requirements for Windows 11. He just wants
| to stop getting nagged by Microsoft to upgrade.
|
| He could buy new hardware and run Windows 11. But this pattern
| will only continue from Microsoft. The only way out is to run a
| non-Microsoft OS (assuming he can).
| labrador wrote:
| You're not getting what I'm saying. Hassling him is the
| point. They want him to use Windows 11 or go away. He's a
| security update expense because he's too cheap to upgrade his
| laptop or run Linux on it.
| materialpoint wrote:
| The important point here is that data collection and
| telemetry is worthless and was never about improving the
| experience for you as a user. The coders behind the update
| nag had every opportunity to do a hardware check, but as I
| say, big data is never used to improve anything for end
| users.
| materialpoint wrote:
| How did you tweak and fix it? I suffer with Windows 11 at work
| and everything is just so slow. Alt+Tab often gets stuck and
| clicking icons on the taskbar don't register about a fifth of
| the time. Take a screenshot with Shift+Win+S? That's gonna take
| at least 10 seconds for the snipping app to even load, after
| which what I wanted to screenshot is probably gone. Open a tab
| in Explorer? Five seconds, during which individual parts of the
| UI update. Delete 50k files from some image analysis? That's
| gonna crash explorer.exe and take down the whole shell. I
| suppose they rewrote the Windows shell in React, and every
| basic interaction is a major undertaking. At home I have a 12
| year old PC, with Linux and the Gnome DE. It is absurd how much
| faster it is, everything is snappy and instantaneous. To me,
| there is nothing to fix in Windows 11 - they have failed
| horribly.
| labrador wrote:
| From my experience, a computer running that slowly is out of
| memory and hitting the swap file constantly. The tweaks I did
| are in settings. I turned off widgets, OneDrive and Ads. Also
| there have been comprehensive scripts for cleaning Windows 11
| shared here on Hacker News if you look for them.
| sexy_seedbox wrote:
| Windhawk, O&O ShutUp10++ and a few other manual registry
| tweaks
| ThrowawayB7 wrote:
| > " _Do you think Windows OS is a profit center...?_ "
|
| The consumer editions are not all there is to Windows. Nearly
| every seat of Windows 11 Enterprise used in corporations is a
| paid license and there are a lot of corporations. Nearly every
| instance of Windows Server is a very expensive paid license and
| is required to run Active Directory, MS Exchange, SQL Server,
| etc.
| labrador wrote:
| I have no experience with Windows Server or Enterprise and
| don't know anyone who does. Forgive me for omitting
| "consumer" from my description. Yes, I mean consumer Windows.
| damion6 wrote:
| Use Rufus it'll disable hardware requirements, without hassle.
| You will need an iso. If you know someone with 11 have them
| download it. Otherwise download the generic.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| ...but then you have to use Windows 11...
| gchamonlive wrote:
| Or a Windows 10 installation that won't get security updates.
| I don't know which is worse.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Windows 10 can still get updates, for I don't remember how
| many years.
|
| It's a PITA it's not made more obvious, but there are free
| options, paid options (30$ a year if I remember well), all
| straight from Microsoft fully supported. Sailing the seven
| seas for a LTS if the other way.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| Indeed https://endoflife.date/windows
| adastra22 wrote:
| Had to scroll way too far down through windows gripes to find
| this, the real answer. Windows 11 will run just fine on your
| machine, OP. Just use Rufus and a USB stick to do the upgrade.
| dgoldstein0 wrote:
| totally agree, but it is a bit ridiculous that this
| workaround is required.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| It also lets you skip the first time install dialogue by
| setting defaults and add a local-only account. Rufus is the way
| to go about installing windows.
| throwaway613745 wrote:
| Ultimately, I didn't switch to Linux because I _wanted_ to. I
| switched to Linux because Microsoft became so actively hostile to
| me I felt like I didn 't have any other choice.
|
| No Microsoft, I'm not buying new hardware just to get the new OS.
| No, I'm not going to let you nag me every single day until I get
| pissed off enough to. No, I will not tolerate all the little
| things in your OS that piss me off everyday. Your software sucks.
| Your filesystem sucks. Your constant nagging sucks. I don't want
| your cloud TPM security bullshit and I DEFINITELY don't want
| Copilot or Recall.
|
| Seriously Microsoft: fuck you.
|
| Giving up being able to play certain games - which require me to
| install malware into my computer anyway - is a small price to pay
| to have my sanity and freedom back. I own my computer, not you.
| Goodbye and good riddance.
|
| I already used MacOS and Linux for work anyway. But don't worry
| Apple, you're riding that line pretty dangerously too - you're
| gonna be next on the chopping block if you don't get your act
| together. Framework Desktop is looking like a mighty capable
| replacement for my Mac Studio.
| canyp wrote:
| The most egregious thing in recent iterations of Win11 is that a
| fresh installation will basically map all of your home folder to
| OneDrive. My Documents, My Pictures, My Music, etc. A recent
| Windows update also told me that I _need_ OneDrive now to back up
| my files. Yup, apparently you really, really need it.
| __david__ wrote:
| Worse is that the notification for this "error" telling me I
| couldn't back up without OneDrive was behind the little dot in
| the restart/logout menu in the start menu, which (until now)
| only showed me that updates were required. Now that they've
| infested that notification with ads there's no reason for me to
| ever look at it again. Good job, Microsoft.
| matltc wrote:
| This threw me so hard when I grabbed a cheap laptop from Costco
| with win11 pre installed. I was saving files to
| c:/users/me/desktop and then when I opened Desktop in File
| Explorer, my shit was gone.
| axpvms wrote:
| Now Windows 11 also pops up a scary security notification
| saying Windows Security found a problem, then when you click on
| it it tells you that you're not using OneDrive and you should
| turn that on immediately.
| canyp wrote:
| They are using the same tactics as scammers: urgency and
| false claims. Microsoft doesn't even hide anymore.
| Melatonic wrote:
| Switch to Win10 LTSC iOT if you want to keep getting security
| updates for many years
|
| Bonus is it strips out all the crap and is super fast
|
| Downside is a few specific pieces of software refuse to install
| (for no good technical reason). Adobe Photoshop for example
|
| There is also win11 LTSC iOT which I believe might actually
| install on older hardware that normal win11 will not (don't quote
| me on this)
| its-summertime wrote:
| I don't know how many years/months/days/hours the author is going
| to continue using Windows for, but this seems like a perfect task
| to be "resolved" by AHK, which is probably in the top 10 things
| Windows users have access to. Worth trying, at least before
| switching to another source of operating system.
| YY3427394872 wrote:
| I wonder how hard would it be to just switch back to Windows 7
| for these kinds of cases? Obviously the most ideal solution is to
| use Linux but there's still some edge cases where Windows is
| needed or is just preferred. If you install Windows 7 in a VM
| you'll be blown away by having a simple, clean OS that just runs
| applications and doesn't shove ads or Bing search into the start
| menu. And obviously it would be vulnerable to software exploits
| but if the device is mostly kept offline I can't see many issues
| with that coming up. Something to think about...
| born-jre wrote:
| I want to experiment with windows PE for that kind of use there
| used to be lite windows "distro" bashed on pe I used to love
| playing with
| sylens wrote:
| At a certain point you'll lose application support, including
| from the major browsers and other services like Steam
| layer8 wrote:
| I know people who are still on Windows 7, but application
| support is becoming more difficult, including mainstream web
| browsers. You can still disable annoyances like in TFA on
| Windows 10, you just have to dig a bit.
| matltc wrote:
| That's what you get for running Microsloth Windoze
|
| Seriously though, don't get why anyone would voluntarily use, let
| alone purchase, any windows distro.
| mistercheph wrote:
| Use Linux
| indubioprorubik wrote:
| Microsoft making advertisements for
| https://store.steampowered.com/steamos ?
| prinny_ wrote:
| I can only hope that this degradation of UX will make more people
| switch or consider switching to other distributions. It's the
| only thing that will make microsoft listen.
| bullen wrote:
| My old 6600 from 2016 is still running fine, I replaced the SSD
| (Intel 400GB to X25-E 64GB that will last 20 years minimum), the
| RAM (Micron to Samsung from aliexpress before the price hike...
| got 8 sticks of 16GB for $40 a pop for backup) and even the old
| trusty monitor (Both Eizo 5:4 matte VA; mercury tube to led, with
| f.lux/redshift the blue light is ok).
|
| But with a 3050 upgrade from the 1050 and later 1030 (best GPU
| for eternity if you discount VR) I had in it it's good for
| another decade. If a game comes out that does not run on it I
| wont play it... simple as that... 150W is enough. So far only
| PUBG stutters, what a joke of bloat and poor engineering that
| game has become...
|
| Win 10 improved NOTHING over 7. Win 11 improves NOTHING over 10.
|
| YMMV but recommendation is still: do not buy new X86 hardware; do
| not use new OS/languages.
|
| Build something good with what you have right now.
|
| Make it so good it's still in use after 100 years.
| some-guy wrote:
| > Win 10 improved NOTHING over 7. Win 11 improves NOTHING over
| 10.
|
| You had me up to this point. The problem is that there are
| actually quite a few improvements under the hood over those
| upgrade paths, but they are unfortunately hidden under all of
| the bullshit. I was an early adopter of Windows 11 specifically
| because of their efficiency core support over Windows 10 when I
| upgraded my CPU.
| bullen wrote:
| You need to look at the cost of improvements, and they
| overshadow all progress.
|
| I'm going linux with TWM (desktop with design look from the
| 70s) on ARM because M$ is clearly not thinking about the long
| perspective.
|
| We need a stable platform to build quality software.
|
| And that's saying alot seen how linux is deprecating libc
| after very short time and the legacy joystick API is not
| being compiled into modern kernels anymore.
|
| Stability is way more important than bells and whistles.
| Rohansi wrote:
| > _Win 10 improved NOTHING over 7_
|
| Windows 7 doesn't have compressed memory (ZRAM). Doesn't
| support TRIM for NVMe SSDs. Doesn't have WSL. Doesn't have ISO
| mounting built in. Doesn't have HDR, variable refresh rate,
| etc...
| bullen wrote:
| Are those really improvements though.
|
| RAM maybe wears quicker if compressed?
|
| NVMe will break long before a good old SATA drive.
|
| WSL... lol
|
| ISO you can do with daemon tools for free...
|
| Displays are good enough at 60Hz 5:4 matte.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| WSL is an excellent Micro-Soft technology.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| > NVMe will break long before a good old SATA drive.
|
| What gave you that idea?
|
| > RAM maybe wears quicker if compressed?
|
| Is this serious? The rest of your post seems serious, but
| that's such a silly idea.
| Telaneo wrote:
| The better statement is 'Win 10 improved nothing directly
| user-facing over Win 7'. Sure, there are several technical
| improvements under the hood, but those are completely
| detached from what the user actually sees and experiences,
| and there's no real reason we couldn't have the Windows 10
| technical improvements with a Windows 7 UI, other than
| Microsoft being the abusive parent that it is.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| I have fedora xfce running beautifully on a 2011 i5 Mac mini.
| Replacing the hard disk with modern SSD was all it took to get
| it running at acceptable speeds where interacting with xfce is
| roughly instantaneous
| ethin wrote:
| I would happily switch to Linux, problem is it doesn't support
| the audio hardware I have. And although I've tried to figure out
| how the drivers get it working on Windows, I can't separate the
| wheat from the chaff in the 500+ USB packet dump Wireshark gives
| me :-( Otherwise I'd dump Windows and throw NixOS on this thing
| and stripe my two NVMes.
| beached_whale wrote:
| Microsoft with the push to require TPM 2.0, that isn't really
| required, is responsible for huge amounts of new e-waste. Any
| green initiative they claim is out the door.
| throw_m239339 wrote:
| It's an eco-disaster but on the other hand there is Linux... at
| some point people need to take a stand, especially given how
| crappy W11 is...
| beached_whale wrote:
| Im not going to do the support for my kids not using windows
| along with the schools using O365 and such. So found a refurb
| business laptop for them on the one without TPM2. Popped
| linux on the old one and it went from slow to fast for OS
| related things and not a terrible machine but snappy. Like,
| it's a 10yr old i5 but that was enough for sims4, office, and
| minecraft. It's crazy how much compute performance Windows is
| taking from its users.
| Aeglaecia wrote:
| to be fair the iot edition of windows ten is also blazingly
| fast to the point where >10yo thinkpads are perfectly fine
| for everything outside of gaming ... so id blame microsoft
| for adding layers upon layers of shit to the os , instead
| of blaming the os itself
| beached_whale wrote:
| that's picking at what is the OS. Sure, but no one is
| generally running Windows 10 IoT
| Aeglaecia wrote:
| is there a single person in the world that would choose
| windows 11 over windows 10 iot if microsoft deigned to
| offer the choice ??
| zeppelin101 wrote:
| Just go with LTSC
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| Wasnt there a Google cross app logging framework and request
| tracking project 15 years ago?
|
| Did grafana die when I wasn't looking? Does datadog still make
| money?
|
| What's weird about this article is that it's the same thing being
| said 20 years ago. Is this a sign of people not learning from the
| better parts of Java deployment stacks?
| icepat wrote:
| Were you intending to respond in this thread instead?
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46346796
| linguae wrote:
| I miss the days when personal computers were simply tools, akin
| to pencils and handheld calculators. I remember the days of
| Macintosh System 7 and Windows 95. No upselling services. No
| automatic updates. No nagging. You turned your computer on,
| executed programs, and that was it.
|
| On the Windows side, things started going downhill starting with
| the Windows XP era, and on the Mac the annoyances began sometime
| in the mid-2010s.
|
| It seems Microsoft, Apple, and other companies realized that
| they're leaving money on the table by not exploiting their
| platforms. Thus, they're no longer selling simple tools, but
| rather they are selling us services.
|
| Yes, there are good Linux distributions that don't annoy me, and
| the BSDs never nag me, but the problem with switching to these
| platforms is that I still need Microsoft Office and other
| proprietary software tools that are not available outside "Big
| Tech." There are other matters that make switching away from
| Windows and macOS challenging, such as hardware support and
| laptop battery life.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| What kills me is there seems to be no option for accounting
| that is acceptable to CPAs besides being held captive paying
| whatever QuickBooks cloud demands. It's not like dual entry
| accounting has changed much in 500 years. There are bank
| integrations and service contracts (notably Apple Card wasn't
| willing to pay licensing fees for the quickbooks file format,
| so you simply couldn't syncronize your accounts with your
| spending, instead falling back to manual import), but they
| would not make investors happy by merely offering bank
| connection services
|
| (God forbid banks be required by law to offer a web connector
| that allows you to request your own data. A workaround I've
| tried is to have my bank send me an email alert on every
| transaction over a penny, so at least I have a record, but
| never got around to setting up an auto import from my inbox)
| abe_m wrote:
| I've heard that many times, but the 3 accounting firms I've
| worked with for my business didn't care what accounting
| software I used. They were all happy to work with Gnucash so
| long as I could provide the needed reports, all of which were
| pre-configured in Gnucash. Two were small firms, but one was
| part of a major national accounting firm/franchise.
| wombatpm wrote:
| If you a small business with retail and payroll, tax tables
| being up to date are worth the price.
| stouset wrote:
| I too remember the days when every unpatched Windows PC was a
| member of a botnet. Perhaps less fondly than you.
|
| And thankfully this was before a time when everyone's computers
| and phones had access to their bank accounts, credit cards, and
| before email was the gateway to virtually your entire life.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > I miss the days when personal computers were simply tools,
| akin to pencils and handheld calculators.
|
| > System 7 and Windows 95
|
| If Windows 95 was the complexity level of a pencil to you, Win
| 10/11 is merely a color pencil. You should be fine getting rid
| of the nagging and adapting it to your needs, it hasn't become
| 10x or 100x more complex, merely incrementally more.
|
| > Microsoft [...] not exploiting their platforms.
|
| That's a phrase I didn't expect. What part of Microsoft do you
| feel was leaving money on the table, as they were sued by
| basically the whole globefor their business practices ?
| isolatedsystem wrote:
| Easy answer to your last point: Work machine and Non-work
| machine. If I'm working for a company and the company needs MS
| Office, they will give me a machine with MS Office. I will
| treat that machine like a radioactive zone. Full Hazmat suit.
| Not a shred of personal interaction with that machine. It
| exists only to do work on and that's that. The company can take
| care of keeping it up to date, and the company's IT department
| can do the bending over the table on my behest as MS approaches
| with dildos marked "Copilot" or "Recall" or "Cortana" or "React
| Native Start Menu" or "OneDrive" or whatever.
|
| Meanwhile, my personal machine continues to be Linux.
|
| This is what I'm doing at my work now. I'm lucky enough to have
| two computers, a desktop PC that runs Linux, and a laptop with
| Windows 11. I do not use that laptop unless I have to deal with
| xlsx, pptx or docx files. Life is so much better.
| neilv wrote:
| Apt username, for a pragmatic strategy.
|
| A variation I've done occasionally is to run the Microsoft
| Windows software in a VM on my Linux laptop.
|
| When I last had the MS office suite inflicted upon me, a
| couple years ago, I was able to run it in a Web browser on
| Linux.
|
| It's important to remember, though, that these measures
| probably won't work long-term.
|
| Historically, MS will tend to shamelessly do whatever
| underhanded things they can get away with at that point in
| time. The only exception being when they are playing a long
| con, in which case they will pretend to play nice, until some
| threshold of lock-in (or re-lock-in) is achieved, and only
| then mask-off, with no sense of shame. (It's usually not
| originating bottom-up from the ICs, and I know some nice
| people from there, but upper corporate is totally like that,
| demonstrating it again and again, for decades.)
|
| Also, a company requiring to run Microsoft software is
| probably also a bad place to work in other regards.
| vee-kay wrote:
| > Historically, MS will tend to shamelessly do whatever
| underhanded things they can get away with at that point in
| time. The only exception being when they are playing a long
| con, in which case they will pretend to play nice, until
| some threshold of lock-in (or re-lock-in) is achieved, and
| only then mask-off, with no sense of shame.
|
| The Windows 10 bait n switch to Windows 11.
|
| Hundreds of millions of PC users worldwide on old hardware
| using old Windows OSes were offered Win10 as free upgrade,
| with the promise that Win10 is the final Windows edition.
|
| Later though, M$ announced Win11 and it would work only on
| new hardware (BIOS TPM 2.0 constraint), and Win10 is no
| longer being supported for personal use (except via some
| complicated ways to get an extension for the Win10
| updates). And not only is Win11 buggy and full of ads, its
| performance is also bad.
|
| Well, the good thing is that such shenanigans are pushing
| PC users to migrate to Linux.
| spacecadet wrote:
| Same. Work provides the idiot box. I give it its own
| segmented network too, cause work spyware and all... then run
| a personal workstation with linux next door to it.
| le-mark wrote:
| If you're implying separating work work on two machines;
| beware the corporate spyware on the windows machine will show
| a lot of idle time!
| incrudible wrote:
| The problem with Linux is that there is no legitimate place
| to direct your rage at. It is free, nobody owes you anything
| and every installation is different. When Windows is awful,
| virtually everyone is being sympathetic. When Linux is awful,
| there is a genre of people that made using Linux an integral
| part of their identity, that will explain to you how your
| frustrations are really your own personal failures.
| cgio wrote:
| You could argue that, with Windows there is a legitimate
| place to direct your rage at, but the action of directing
| your rage does not actually have any effect on improving
| your experience. With Win and Mac, no one cares, because
| they already have their customers locked in and tight, they
| will accept any experience degradation. With Linux, you are
| not a customer so no customer complaints, but still
| arguably much better support.
| freedomben wrote:
| Agreed. And also, if there's something you don't like or
| a project going in a direction you don't agree with,
| there is virtually guaranteed to be other people out
| there that feel the same that are building something
| different
| tempsaasexample wrote:
| I installed Linux Mint Mate on my parents home computer and
| they have less issues than they ever had with windows 10-11
| Uupis wrote:
| I'm slowly moving away from the Apple ecosystem, and this
| is what I rather like about Linux. I find it obviates the
| anger -- there's no specific entity making decisions that
| make my user experience worse. If something's annoying me,
| it's quite likely to be my own fault.
| anjel wrote:
| Whats to rage about w/ Linux?
|
| Like Apple used to warrant, it just works.
| chongli wrote:
| A lot of rage over systemd from what I recall.
|
| I raged a lot when my Arch machine would break after an
| update and I'd have to do config file surgery on a
| machine that no longer wanted to boot into a graphical
| desktop. I've never had that sort of thing happen on Mac
| or Windows.
| dweinus wrote:
| When Windows is awful, everyone is sympathetic except for
| their support. They are beyond useless.
|
| Ubuntu with support is totally a thing, not sure if it is
| good or not.
|
| Windows 11 Home: $139/license Ubuntu with support: $150/yr
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| No full time job, so as a freelancer those machines need to
| combine. And my work uses similar software that simply
| doesn't work well on Linux.
|
| But yes, ideally I'd have two machines to separate my career
| from my personal life.
| apatheticonion wrote:
| I like this in theory but as someone who travels often with
| my work laptop, it's nice to be able to use the same hardware
| for personal use as carrying a second computer is impractical
| regarding carry weight and packing.
|
| Apple used to allow installing a second copy of MacOS without
| it being subject to the work profile - completely isolated
| from the work partition (because you could ignore the "set up
| work profile" prompts after installation).
|
| I would simply restart my MacBook into the personal install
| after work & on weekends.
|
| Apple have recently updated the MacOS installer to be always
| online so I can no longer install a seperate MacOS partition
| without a work profile.
|
| I ended up buying an ROG Ally but it's honestly not that
| portable. The power brick is almost the same size as the
| handheld and it occupies about as much space as a laptop in
| my carry on.
| cbdevidal wrote:
| Two laptops is easier than you'd think if you have the
| right bag.
|
| My work lap is so locked down I cannot do anything personal
| on it, so when I go into the office I always carry two
| laptops, and the personal one is an old thick heavy
| dinosaur; it's got to be at least five pounds. However,
| with a good bag that has a (non-padded) belt and sternum
| strap, it is not difficult. The belt carries most of the
| load and my shoulders don't hurt; they hardly feel
| anything.
|
| I deliberately park in the farthest spot at the other side
| of campus (about a half mile, and up four flights in the
| garage) to get in exercise steps with the heavy pack.
|
| It's good exercise but I absolutely need a belt and sternum
| pack to do it. Wouldn't dream of trying that with only
| shoulder straps.
| apatheticonion wrote:
| Tell that to airport check-in staff haha. A laptop and
| charger are around 3kg and there's only so much clothing
| I can take out of my suitcase and wear to make it passed
| check-in.
|
| But I hear you. It's annoying that I can't reuse
| perfectly good hardware, but it's fine - we make do.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > I remember the days of Macintosh System 7 and Windows 95. No
| upselling services. No automatic updates. No nagging. You
| turned your computer on, executed programs, and that was it.
|
| I 'member the days of Win 98, Win ME and Win XP... made good
| money cleaning up malware - browser toolbars, dialers, god
| knows what - from computers. Some came from the hellholes that
| were Java, ActiveX or Flash, some came from browser drive-by
| exploits served from advertising networks, but others just came
| from computers that were attached directly to the Internet from
| their modems.
|
| And I also 'member Windows being prone to crashes, particularly
| graphics drivers, until Windows 7 revamped the entire driver
| model.
|
| Oh, and (unrelated) I also 'member websites you could use to
| root a fair amount of Android and Apple phones.
|
| All of that is gone now, it has gotten so, so much better
| thanks to a variety of protection mechanisms.
| linguae wrote:
| Security and upselling are orthogonal; I can make a secure
| operating system that doesn't notify the user of OneDrive,
| iCloud, and other services.
|
| Things get more nuanced when we talk about other types of
| notifications and about whether updates should be automatic
| or always require a user's explicit consent. I personally
| believe that a key tenet of personal computing is that the
| owner of the computer, not the hardware or software vendor,
| should have full control over the hardware and software on
| the computer. This control is undermined when systems are
| designed in ways to give users less control. There may be
| legitimate security benefits to mandatory automatic updates,
| for example, but there are risks, such as buggy updates
| leading to broken installations or even lost data, and
| there's also having to deal with unwanted UI/UX changes.
|
| As a power user, developer, and researcher, I want control
| over my computing environment. Unfortunately Windows and
| macOS have been trending toward more paternalism, more
| nagging, and more upselling. Thankfully Linux exists, but at
| the cost of needing to switch away from convenient
| proprietary software tools like Microsoft Office. I can do
| without Word or Excel, but PowerPoint is what keeps me on
| Office (I've tried LibreOffice and the Beamer LaTeX
| template). I'm also concerned about hardware getting
| increasingly locked down, which will hurt Linux.
| pjjpo wrote:
| I had the same reading, it sounded like Windows is worse
| now than Windows 95, which would be a hot take indeed. But
| it seems the intent was purely on these nagging aspects
| which have definitely gotten worse.
|
| It might be easier to swallow the message focusing on
| Windows 8+ when it really jumped the shark. Windows 7 was a
| pretty good OS holistically I think even if there are
| aspects lost compared to the pure simplicity of those
| really old ones.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| You haven't addressed OP argument.
|
| The fact there were security concerns is unrelated with the
| MAIN points discussed not only in the post, but in OP's
| reply:
|
| > No upselling services
|
| > No automatic updates
|
| > No nagging.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > No automatic updates
|
| Without auto-updates you could take a guess how many
| systems wouldn't get patched in months.
| PenguinCoder wrote:
| I know it goes against the grain here; but so what. It's
| the users prerogative to do with their device, what the
| wish. Nag for security updates, sure. But automatic
| updates of anything is user hostile and should be
| abolished. Especially when those automatic updates remove
| features or introduce a shit ton of new bugs.
| p_ing wrote:
| Problem is the history o people failing to patch causing
| widespread Internet outages, such as via SQL Slammer; a
| SQL Server patch had been available for six months to
| protect against the vulnerability. Microsoft learned the
| lesson that users, even the "professional" ones that
| should know better, fail to patch, which brings us to the
| current automated patch situation.
| esseph wrote:
| It is not really gone - at all.
|
| The size of the botnets and raw bandwidth they have access to
| now is staggering. (DDoS, "Residential Proxies", "Anti-
| Censorship VPNs", etc. All just compromised residential
| devices.
| phendrenad2 wrote:
| Windows XP sold for $200 in 2001. In 2025, that's $364[1]. If
| we can find enough people willing to pay $364 for an OS that
| values privacy and doesn't push needless upgrades, that'll be a
| start. But XP itself was probably priced based on the belief
| that people would be upgrading in a few years to Windows Vista.
| So we might need more than that.
|
| [1] - According to minneapolisfed.org, which uses the official
| economist-approved inflation rates. Not that I'm implying that
| there's anything wrong with that. I have all of the orthodox
| beliefs about inflation that a good citizen should have.
| llbbdd wrote:
| $364 when?
| eigen wrote:
| > Windows XP sold for $200 in 2001. In 2025, that's $364
|
| I assume you used the overall CPI rate rather than the
| software rate. but using the Software CPI its more like $58.
| and that seems like an easier sell (for the user, maybe not
| the developer).
|
| http://data.bls.gov/dataViewer/view/timeseries/CUUR0000SEEE0.
| ..
|
| Software CPI-U
|
| 2001 Oct 77.0
|
| 2025 Nov 22.182
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _Windows 95. No upselling services. No automatic updates_
|
| Even Windows 95 came bundled with MSN on the desktop which had
| a paid monthly fee to access. And its lack of automatic updates
| was a real problem, as you had to manually find the service
| packs and security patches. The automatic updates in Windows XP
| were vastly more convenient.
|
| Automatic updates are needed for security. The only era when
| you didn't need them was pre-Internet. They're not something we
| want to get rid of.
| chasing0entropy wrote:
| I know you won't believe me, and my precious karma score may
| suffer by stating reality: you don't NEED security updates. A
| properly hardened server with no patches will outlive cobbled
| together trash library patch over garbage code pasted from ai
| vibing script kiddies. Would you shake your head in disbelief
| if I told you 'security patches' are the fix delivered by a
| dealer to quell your shivers?
|
| Give me functionality updates, cumulative service packs, and
| the just after BBS days when an exploit discovered in your
| software meant it was used by no one, anywhere, because we no
| longer trust your coding or your 'fix'
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| > Automatic updates are needed for security. The only era
| when you didn't need them was pre-Internet. They're not
| something we want to get rid of.
|
| That was true right up until companies started routinely
| pushing updates that broke things, removed useful features,
| added user hostile features, or even outright ads. If I have
| to give up automatic security updates to not have my software
| get worse on me over time, I will _gladly_ do so. I would
| rather have security updates and not have the user-hostile
| stuff, but we seem to be unable to get that, so the next best
| thing would be no automatic updates at all.
| aspbee555 wrote:
| I stopped using Windows over 15 years ago and moved to Ubuntu
| that was running all the servers. Unfortunately Ubuntu decided
| to do the same garbage trying to shove their pro crap down my
| throat, made it impossible to remove (by making a desktop
| requirement) and resorted to the game of trying to re-enable it
| during updates
|
| I finally moved everything to just Debian itself that never
| nags me and just works with everything I need, including games
| (thanks to steam)
|
| Only time I boot a Win10 VM is to compile apps for for windows,
| otherwise it has zero use or need anymore
| tzs wrote:
| The internet was a big part of it. Most home users did not have
| internet access in the System 7 days. When it came out in 1991
| no country had more than 1% of its population with internet
| access. By the time Windows 95 came out around 10% of US users
| had internet access.
|
| It wasn't until 2001 that the US reached 50% of users having
| internet access.
|
| Without internet there wasn't really a good way to distribute
| updates to most users.
|
| As a developer in that era working at a company that made
| software for PCs and Macs it was great. It meant that the way
| most users would get our software was buying it on floppy disk
| (or later CD) from a retail software store like CompUSA or
| Egghead.
|
| We'd only make more money from someone who bought our software
| if that software made a good enough impression that they bought
| more of our software. We'd lose money if any software went out
| with enough bugs or a confusing enough interface or a poorly
| enough written manual that a lot of people made a lot of calls
| to our toll free tech support.
|
| This was great because it largely aligned what developers
| wanted to do (write a feature complete program with a great UI
| and no bugs) and what management wanted (happy users who do not
| call tech support).
|
| With internet giving us the ability to push updates at almost
| zero cost and as often as we want people who release incomplete
| programs early and add the missing parts in updates are going
| to outcompete people who don't release until the program is
| complete and nearly bug free.
|
| Once you get there it is not much of a leap to decide that what
| you are really selling is not software to do X but rather the
| service of providing software to do X. Customers subscribe to
| that service and you continuously improve its ability to do X.
| melchebo wrote:
| Do not connect it to the internet. Problem solved.
|
| Basically anything in a social network needs to learn to defend
| itself against threats. Make computer a hermit, and it can go
| without updates for a long time.
|
| (Oh, but you don't like that? Well, Microsoft doesn't like
| getting in the news for some worldwide botnet of all Windows 10
| machines. I bet they'll figure this out sooner or later.)
| chaostheory wrote:
| > but the problem with switching to these platforms is that I
| still need Microsoft Office
|
| Microsoft Office Online works fine on Linux. In fact, it's
| superior to native MS Office in terms of stability.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Microsoft Office somewhat works in the browser. Certainly good
| enough for me, although 99% of my actions is upload document to
| onedirve, open it in web MS Office version, export to pdf and
| then read with standard tools.
| jokoon wrote:
| I suspect there are cybersecurity stakes regarding win11 and
| win10, but I am not entirely sure.
|
| I think that the spectre mitigation are not a problem in win11
| because win11 is not supported on CPU that are vulnerable, which
| might be a reason they encourage people to get win11 and get a
| new PC, but that's an unverified guess, I am just trying to get
| them the benefit of the doubt.
|
| SteamOS looks like it might take a lot of the windows cake, but
| it remains to be seen if they will be able to.
|
| So far it doesn't look like SteamOS supports most of PC hardware
| out there, but it could be a next step for Valve.
| AndyKelley wrote:
| 2026 will be Year of the Linux Desktop, at least for Mr. Diallo!
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| I get the sentiment but I find it frustrating when people write
| complaints like this when they know Rufus boot exists which
| disables TPM and online only accounts during the install.
| Findecanor wrote:
| Usually, whenever there's a workaround for something with
| Windows, you'll never know until it happens how long it will
| take before a Windows update makes the workaround ineffective.
|
| Is Rufus any different?
| jasonvorhe wrote:
| > It's one thing to be at the forefront of enshittification, but
| Microsoft is now actively hostile to its users.
|
| Haven't lived under a rock until now must be relaxing.
|
| I really hope this mess will lead to a significant uptick in
| Linux usage though. That would be a great effect. Unfortunately,
| most people will either adapt or go with macOS and be in a
| similar spot in a few years.
| foobarchu wrote:
| For what it's worth, a lot of the crowd who used to want to but
| we're hamstrung by the garbage support for games on Linux are
| now actually switching since Steam has essentially made it
| "just work" via Proton. The final real blocker for many people
| is finally gone this iteration of the cycle.
|
| I myself have fully switched to Endeavor for my personal
| desktop, though I still use a MacBook for work (as I have for
| 17 years now, if you include college). It's been a surprisingly
| seamless experience, I highly recommend it over Ubuntu-based
| distributions, especially for Steam (I was a former Mint
| adherent but the general stability has gone way downhill).
| yoan9224 wrote:
| The TPM 2.0 "requirement" is mostly artificial - you can bypass
| it with Rufus and Windows 11 runs fine on older hardware. But
| that misses the point.
|
| Microsoft is using aggressive dark patterns (undismissable
| upgrade prompts) to force hardware obsolescence and create
| e-waste. This isn't about security - it's about maintaining the
| upgrade treadmill when performance improvements have stalled.
|
| The real issue is consent. Users should be able to say "no" once
| and have that decision respected. Instead, we get daily nagging
| designed to exhaust users into compliance. This is the opposite
| of user-centric design.
|
| Time to consider Linux seriously, or at least Windows 10 LTSC IoT
| which has support until 2032.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| The fucking hide of Microsoft, we need a class action to sue them
| for harassment.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Fucking hide of Microsoft, we need a class action to sue them for
| harassment.
| inatreecrown2 wrote:
| well and clearly written, and I feel the same about windows. to
| the author: maybe it is us that should leave windows alone.
| mouselett wrote:
| I had the same frustrations recently with my MacBook Pro, with
| macOS constantly telling me about Tahoe despite OCLP--which I
| used to patch my unsupported Mac to Sonoma--currently not
| supporting that version of macOS. These notifications aren't able
| to be disabled, just like in Windows--trust me, I tried to do
| that. They irritated me so much, that I've actually taken to
| installing Ubuntu on the Mac just so I can avoid seeing them.
| phacker007 wrote:
| Use Linux hehehehe
| nfriedly wrote:
| I used Rufus to make a Windows 11 installer USB drive that
| bypasses the TPM check and online account setup and a couple of
| other things. I've been using that along with O&O Shut Up 10++,
| and Firefox with uBlock Origin to refresh computers for local
| folks.
|
| With the "requirements" check bypassed, Windows 11 actually runs
| on the Intel 1st gen Core i-series and newer, as well as any
| Ryzen CPU and, I think, a couple of earlier AMD generations. (It
| requires the popcount instruction, which isn't present on the
| Core 2 and older.)
|
| Anything older gets Windows 10 IoT which gets updates until 2032.
| 50208 wrote:
| Wish there was a link to this ...
| dangus wrote:
| Windows 11 came out FOUR YEARS AGO. It's time to let this subject
| die.
|
| They're harassing you because in not too many years, connecting
| your computer to the internet on their OS will be dangerous.
| They're trying to save you from yourself.
|
| And, _quite reasonably_ , they don't want to patch an OS that
| debuted 10 years ago so that it supports your hardware that's
| even older than 10 years old.
|
| It's time to get over it. You're using a commercial OS that you
| likely haven't even paid for since Windows 7 debuted 20 years ago
| and that vendor needs you to at least upgrade to a still-pretty-
| shitty-and-old used laptop to remain compatible.
|
| You're free to switch to something else like Linux and, frankly,
| if you're at the point of writing redundant blog posts of the
| same subject we've heard all about for the last 4 years, you
| definitely should. I did! And pretty much all of my Windows stuff
| runs on Linux effortlessly including and especially games.
|
| Or you can disconnect from the Internet and kill the nags with
| some group policy stuff. As a bonus, being disconnected from the
| internet will stop these blog posts.
| greatgib wrote:
| This popup just tells you to switch to another OS, more
| respective of you as an user...
| russfink wrote:
| Ten years old laptop? Pretty sure it has a TPM 2.0 on it.
| silexia wrote:
| I have this problem too, Microsoft is a terrible corrupt
| organization now without Bill Gates.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-12-22 05:00 UTC)