"Perhaps there is a small Wizard inside of every quark," KU
   7/19/1994 What kind of link is there between religion and
   mysticism? === > FINALLY...a good question on this new
   newsgroup! *Well, IMHO, the > link is experience. You're
   welcome, Barry. *Despite some arguments to the contrary that
   I've heard, you have provided me with further proof that truth
   exists in the questioning, and not the answers. *The question is
   a catalyst for more questions, and the answer links together the
   multitude of questions. You can't have an answer without a
   question. But you can have questions without answers.
   *Questioning is the only pathway to truth. It is related to what
   you say here --- *religion = spirituality through faith and
   ultimate trust, mysticism = experience leading to spirituality
   and ultimate trust. The difference between the two? *One asks
   the questions (mysticism). The other accepts the answers
   (religion). Both are valid paths towards finding the deep spirit
   inside of you, but each works for different people. Thoughts?
   *How reasonable are my thoughts here? -- | Ken Udut | | Send me
   E-Mail requesting addition to the Optimism Digest |
   Composer/Performer (Piano) on Union Records | Listowner of
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   ku...@ritz.mordor.com ]*- ======= You're welcome, Barry :-)
   *Providing thoughtful questions, provoking interest and being a
   catalyst to curiousity, is far more fastinating than providing
   answers, which is how school-taught students of life tend to do
   things. *You are taught to provide answers, but to let the
   questions come from elsewhere. Not to get sappy, but children
   have it all correct here. *Questions, questions, so many
   questions. *Returning to a child-like state of wonder is the
   biggest step you can take towards melting into the stream of
   things, whatever that may be. Curiousity is the only road to
   learning, IMHO. === Well, I'm finding out as each day passes,
   that the old wisdom is right. You already know the answers to
   most of your questions --- but at times you need others to act
   as rubber sheets, bouncing questions off of them, and finding a
   piece of yourself in whatever they say. Until you find someone
   who is reasonably close to the way you think about a question,
   you won't "find the answer". === A further question - maybe
   someone can help me with my thoughts here... Are there any
   religions or manifestations of personal spirituality (is that a
   valid way of saying it?) that AREN'T valid ways of finding your
   path in life / soul / creator? ==== Are you certain? *I wonder,
   Alan -- why would any culture need to provide one -big- answer
   when there aren't enough small answers? *What drives us to NOT
   simply accept things the way they are, and instead try to find
   answers? Isn't the creation of a God in our own image (or God
   who created us in his own image - we may never know which came
   first) a good answer? It seems to link up with one rule of thumb
   I hear -- let the little things sort themselves out, and worry
   about what's really important. "Don't sweat the small stuff" is
   another way of putting it. *Isn't creating a God/acknowledging
   that a God/s exists a way of looking at the big picture, rather
   than fretting over trivial details? Or am I off base? ==== But,
   in all honesty, do doctors really cure anything? *Do doctors
   heal the broken bones? *Do doctors stop infection? Doctors are
   really smart people who know how to get reactions from the body
   that promote healing. *But -- the healing process -- what does
   that stem from? Any doctor (unless they are overly arrogant :->
   ) will say that they act as promoting the process of healing.
   *But the healing process -- the fact that cut nerve endings
   somehow "know" how to get back together -- the fact that broken
   bones bond back together again... *how does this happen? *Why
   does this happen? Doctors are expert at what they do. *But they
   are assistants to the body's healing process. *Again -- maybe
   you know a little more than I do on the subject (and I'm
   interested!) -- how does the body heal? Coincidence? *Pure
   chance? *I honestly want to understand more. === The Pope was
   very smart in saying this. *He realized that science has better
   tools for discovering internal body quirks. *The Pope wasn't
   saying, "Science is doing God's work". *He is saying, "Science
   is assisting God's work". *God/higher power/mystical force that
   binds things... *in thousands of years we haven't come up with
   an answer that suits everyone. *But it's something more than the
   eyes can see. Perhaps there is a small Wizard inside of every
   quark, telling it, "Push your host body (proton, whatever) to do
   thus and so". *Or maybe a grand wizard programmed things down to
   the most intricate working levels. *I can't believe that it
   happened by accident. === But accurate reality is a subjective
   reality. *There is no objective reality - no one rule that binds
   us all. *I believe in scientific discovery. *I also believe that
   there's more to life than science. *Some of the greatest people
   in the past... people whose lives transcended cultures (who will
   remember Louis Pasteur 1000 years from now?) all by believing in
   something greater and far better than themselves. *That
   indicates, very scientifically, that there must be something to
   it -- that it works. === Interesting! *I never knew of such a
   thing. *"Every thought has been thought before, and is yet new
   every time it is thought." *My way of putting an old phrase
   which I've long forgotten. === I like that line of thought.
   *I've had trouble reconciling a God existing before everything,
   unless the God existed in -another- realm that came before
   everything as we know it. *So, I just gave up on worrying about
   "how it all began" for the moment, and am thinking about things
   as they are now. *How many different words are there for that
   weird force that seems to bind people, animals, plants and
   things together? == But it is impossible for one to be
   completely objective. *Apathy - the "I don't care about that
   situation, so here is what I see." is surprisingly close to
   objectivism, in my mind. *But how can there truly be an
   objective reality? *Even down to the smallest of particles, each
   particle experiences everything differently. *We can reach
   agreement as to what is an "objective reality", but what makes
   it the right reality? That's why I question the existence of an
   objective reality at all. *But I want to hear otherwise - I
   might not have as much of the "whole picture" in my mind as I
   would like. === But to find one's true self, don't you have to
   discover something greater than yourself? *To find your true
   self, Lee, you have to be filled with humility. *Humble. *If
   you're *not* humbling yourself in the search for self, then you
   risk becoming arrogant or overly promoting yourself (even to a
   fractional amount). And to humble, you need to humble yourself
   to something greater than you. Am I making any sense here, or
   does it sound like ramble? == Well, I'm actually not at all
   familiar with what the Pope said when he said, as the first time
   I heard of it was here. *But you are right, of course :-) *What
   people say (especially when they talk about others) only speaks
   about themselves, and not about the person they're talking
   about. In my way of thinking, I believe that it is your reaction
   that is important, and not so much the action. *Now, there are
   commonly held reactions, such as to a murder. *But still, as
   long as other opinions exist (in the person who murdered, for
   example... or her/his friends), then it is not an absolute. By
   the way --- thank you for enjoyed what I had to say. *:-) ===
   Thanks :-) *Well, it's a case of using the same medicine :-)
   *When I say, "I can't believe that it happened by accident" (in
   regards to the existence of the universe), it implies (in my
   mode of thinking) that I said, "I have chosen to believe that it
   didn't happen by accident". When someone makes an absolute
   sounding statement - it helps me to put the words, "I believe
   that..." before what they say, in my mind. *Since that is
   actually what is happening (in my frame of reference, speaking
   for myself, etc.), that's all that really matters :-) == The
   doctor may set the broken bone, but do they link together the
   bone marrow, the individual fibers (whatever they're called)
   that make up the bones? *Do they command the bone to heal? *Or
   do they "wait and see", doing the best they can with the
   knowledge they have, and hope for the best? If doctors were the
   ones that cured the illnesses, then doctors would *always* be
   successful at curing illnesses. *As they aren't always
   successful, there must be something more going on that they
   cannot control. == But what started that process in motion in
   the first place? *Belief in "it just happened that way"/chance
   is as much as a belief system as is believing in a grand creator
   of the universe. == That was then. *Times change. *People,
   organizations, religions mature. == I'm a major fan of physics
   (especially Quantum physics - some of the coolest stuff
   around!). *But the deeper I get into my hobby of studying this
   stuff, the greater my respect for whatever started this. *If it
   turns out that I've had a respect for a random event in an
   eventless pre-universe, then I will never be any the wiser once
   I die, right? So is my belief harmful? ==