Thank you, Bob, for the response. Perhaps there is too much vagueness in the descriptions students often get, of good style, good citing of texts that are used, etc. I remember going to a used book store last Saturday, and came across a "How to talk to other people" book from around 1925. Tiny little book - one of those canvas covered pocket-sized textbooks from way back when. [why are books so *huge* nowadays, and cover less?] In it, it had very simple - naive, but simple - rules for engaging in conversation. And one of the thing it said, was (paraphrased) "Every story must have a hero. Make sure when you tell a story, or relate something that happened - make sure there is a hero." These simple little things can make all the difference to a student - even if the rules are sometimes arbitrary... For example, perhaps a check-list for students where they can make sure they are not plagurizing. Something like: 1) Did you quote more than two sentences from another book? **a) if so, reduce quote to two sentences. 2) Did you rewrite the words from another book in your own words? **a) if so, you are plagurising. ********i. Rethink what you are trying to say ********ii. etc. etc. I wouldn't even know how to put together such a list, but I can think of many things in high school that would have been made easier, if there was a Flowchart - a logic chart - that I could check my paper with, and have a better idea what the teacher is thinking. It also might help students who feel they are more cunning than the teacher, realize that the teacher has seen it all before, and is rarely as fooled as it may seem at first. [my biggest problem in school was making papers too long. I have the same problem in e-mails - ie - no editing skills for my own words :-) ] Kenneth