Computer programmers as well... although I trained myself in programming (using BASIC) as a kid and enjoyed using the dreaded GOTO functions to jump around to where i needed to go. "Unstructured programming" it's called. Modern programming learning techniques HATE my way of writing code because it's considered hard to read. But... I can accomplish a task in a shorter time and *I* can read the code just fine. smile emoticon [I program with whatever language and tools I have available to me - methodologies never meant much to me]