I think you're onto something with that. That's the missing piece right there. What was missing from Seedy's logic study was one simple thing he missed: He was trying to win. Binary. 0, 1. Loser, Winner. All that fancy logic sitting on top of a binary win/lose situation. To me, dismantles all of the fancy talk entirely. Had he understood I was shooting for equivalence, I might have hung around. But the binary finish showed that, in the end, that's what mattered. I kinda knew it from the start, but seeing it showed he missed the point entirely. It's likely why his Guru fired him from his... wherever the guru's hang out... in his thing. smile emoticon I'm still friends with him; I like the guy - but he'll always miss that "something".