3-Mar-2011 12:32:06-PST,1440;000000000001 Mail-From: ATTILA created at 3-Mar-2011 12:32:06 Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 12:32:06 -0800 (PST) From: Attila Subject: Re: What's up? To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14581405842.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14581460010.7.ATTILA@TWENEX.ORG> I read my mail here with regularity, and have a couple hacking projects in mind if I ever manage to free up some time. I mainly use this email address to read slashdot... just waiting for that "what operating system do you use to read slashdot" poll to come around again. SMJ gave me the source to an ancient IRC client for TOPS-20 in assembler and I had been screwing around with it a bit; I'm more than a little familiar with IRC, so it's a good way to play around and get visible results quickly. I haven't really had time to do much with it, other than get it to compile and run and tidy up a bit. If you are really interested in the TOPS-20/PDP-10 experience, I would eschew C and use MIDAS or MACRO-20... some medium that truly exposes the beauty under the hood. C on the PDP-10 is a strange and messed-up beast, although I can almost see it as an extreme portability testing environment... The NetBSD people do have a port to the PDP-10, which is actually targetted at the same emulator that SMJ runs here (KLH10). I'm not paying attention to my session here constantly, but if I'm around feel free to SEND to me. Pax, --S ------- 4-Mar-2011 09:44:01-PST,598;000000000011 Mail-From: ATTILA created at 4-Mar-2011 09:44:01 Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: Attila Subject: Docs To: papa@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14581691553.7.ATTILA@TWENEX.ORG> I have a fairly large cache of mostly PDF docs relevant to hacking on the 20, mostly snatched from the usual places (trailing-edge, bitsavers, etc.). Sadly, my net connection sucks so uploading the whole thing is not an option, but I'll see what I can do about putting the most useful ones somewhere. That file from Columbia is one of the best, though. Pax, --S ------- 7-Mar-2011 05:48:39-PST,532;000000000001 Mail-From: ATTILA created at 7-Mar-2011 05:48:38 Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 05:48:38 -0800 (PST) From: Attila Subject: Re: Docs To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14582276496.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14582435137.7.ATTILA@TWENEX.ORG> Re MACRO vs MIDAS most of the CUSPs and stuff from DEC/DECUS are in MACRO, so you should at least be familiar with it, but MIDAS is more pleasant to use... at least that's how I remember it, it's been a while since I did anything significant. Pax, --S ------- 8-Mar-2011 13:44:34-PST,1938;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.80]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:43:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.76]) by qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Glbw1g0051eYJf8A8liQ0N; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:42:24 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.3] ([24.62.230.208]) by omta19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GliE1g0194WRhhk01liHDb; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:42:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <14582435584.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14582435584.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:42:13 -0500 To: David Meyer , tops-20@Lingling.Panda.COM From: P&G Wexelblat Subject: Re: New member greeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 5:51 AM -0800 3/7/11, David Meyer wrote: >Greetings, TOPS-20 fans! > >Just a wannabe programmer from Japan who's long been curious about the OS >that incubated so many of the concepts that power the computer world today. >Finally availing myself of the public system at twenex.org trying to figure >out what TOPS-20 is about. > >Thought I'd sign up for the mailing list and see how many devotees are >still kicking around. > >Long Live TOPS-20! > >-- >David Meyer >Takarazuka, Japan >papa@twenex.org >------- Hi, I really have nothing to do with these systems these days, but I was at BBN when TENEX was written, (I made a tiny contribution to the ARPAnet), and did TOPS-10 OS work whilst at DEC ('70's and 80's). A teensie bit of my tops-10 IPCF code found its way into TOPS-20, and I contributed to "the Compatibility Package" while at BBN (Tenex/Tops-20) But a piece of me still has me subscribing to this list :) Welcome -- -- ...wex (10-3610) (PMW on the monitor listings) 9-Mar-2011 03:31:16-PST,9361;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from navyfederal.org ([12.47.113.147]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 03:28:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=navyfederal.org; s=domainkey; t=1299669483; x=1615026259; q=dns/txt; h=Subject: Message-ID:From:Date:Content-type; bh=a+sdOlBXzNrxHn+OXXltihMjIH 5tARrpS6lF79/FBMA=; b=k3VAcSexN41lErKLuRSLvKuMGyGsvcG0QHuGPT4Fqr ce84+dziSC55y2nMzT6+XmFZ2KX8kUV/s5RMlRLwMLcA== Received: from ([172.24.104.70]) by gunwale.nfcu.net with ESMTP id 4FFSXF1.22237184; Wed, 09 Mar 2011 06:18:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: <14582435584.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Subject: Re: New member greeting X-KeepSent: C55074FE:4D01692B-8525784E:003AA373; type=4; name=$KeepSent To: David Meyer Cc: tops-20@Lingling.Panda.COM, P&G Wexelblat Message-ID: From: Chuck_Perilli@navyfederal.org Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 06:26:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/related; Boundary="0__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3" --0__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="1__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3" --1__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, My experience with TOPS-20 was at Air Force Systems Command at Andrews = AFB in the late 70's and early 80's. We were mostly involved with developi= ng interfaces between the ARPAnet and existing systems we had like CDC Cyb= er 70s. We were also testing a new protocol called TCP/IP. The bulk of t= hat work was actually done on PDP-11s using RSX-11M. However we had a 2040= that was our administrative workhorse (documentation, email, FTP etc.).= My extent of programming on TOPS-20 was a Macro program to convert docu= ment files into tapes for printing on our Xerox 1200 page printer. The Xero= x 1200 was an offline device that read 9 track EBCDIC tapes. Basically I= had to convert ASCII to EBCDIC and create "banner" pages with big block letters, Some of the "big guns" on this forum could probably write tha= t program in their sleep. However, it gave me a lot of respect for the p= ower of TOPS-20 and the ease of programming even at the assembly language le= vel. Somewhere I think I still have the tee shirt I picked up at a DECUS conference that says "JSYS Saves". I now have a TOPS-20 system up and running on a Suse Linux 11 box. Fir= st time I fired it up it was like seeing an old friend I had not seen in decades. I laughed when I found the distro even included John Laird's "Haunt" text adventure we once wasted hours of time playing. Until I retire in 3 years, I now work for Navy Federal Credit Union (who has several branches in Japan but I've never been there other than Narita Airport to change planes). Welcome aboard! -Chuck Perilli, W3HDN (been a ham operator since 1959) -Waldorf, MD From: P&G Wexelblat To: David Meyer , = Date: 03/08/2011 06:09 PM Subject: Re: New member greeting At 5:51 AM -0800 3/7/11, David Meyer wrote: >Greetings, TOPS-20 fans! > >Just a wannabe programmer from Japan who's long been curious about the= OS >that incubated so many of the concepts that power the computer world today. >Finally availing myself of the public system at twenex.org trying to figure >out what TOPS-20 is about. > >Thought I'd sign up for the mailing list and see how many devotees are= >still kicking around. > >Long Live TOPS-20! > >-- >David Meyer >Takarazuka, Japan >papa@twenex.org >------- Hi, I really have nothing to do with these systems these days, but I was at= BBN when TENEX was written, (I made a tiny contribution to the ARPAnet), an= d did TOPS-10 OS work whilst at DEC ('70's and 80's). A teensie bit of m= y tops-10 IPCF code found its way into TOPS-20, and I contributed to "the= Compatibility Package" while at BBN (Tenex/Tops-20) But a piece of me still has me subscribing to this list :) Welcome -- -- ...wex (10-3610) (PMW on the monitor listings) = --1__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3 Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi David,

My experience with TOPS-20 was at Air Force Systems Command at Andrews = AFB in the late 70's and early 80's. We were mostly involved with deve= loping interfaces between the ARPAnet and existing systems we had like = CDC Cyber 70s. We were also testing a new protocol called TCP/IP. The= bulk of that work was actually done on PDP-11s using RSX-11M. However= we had a 2040 that was our administrative workhorse (documentation, em= ail, FTP etc.). My extent of programming on TOPS-20 was a Macro progr= am to convert document files into tapes for printing on our Xerox 1200 = page printer. The Xerox 1200 was an offline device that read 9 track E= BCDIC tapes. Basically I had to convert ASCII to EBCDIC and create &qu= ot;banner" pages with big block letters, Some of the "big gu= ns" on this forum could probably write that program in their sleep= . However, it gave me a lot of respect for the power of TOPS-20 and th= e ease of programming even at the assembly language level. Somewhere I= think I still have the tee shirt I picked up at a DECUS conference tha= t says "JSYS Saves".

I now have a TOPS-20 system up and running on a Suse Linux 11 box. Fir= st time I fired it up it was like seeing an old friend I had not seen i= n decades. I laughed when I found the distro even included John Laird'= s "Haunt" text adventure we once wasted hours of time playing= . Until I retire in 3 years, I now work for Navy Federal Credit Union = (who has several branches in Japan but I've never been there other than= Narita Airport to change planes).

Welcome aboard!

-Chuck Perilli, W3HDN (been a ham operator since 1959)
-Waldorf, MD


3D"InactiveP&G Wexel= blat ---03/08/2011 06:09:42 PM---At 5:51 AM -0800 3/7/11, David Meyer w= rote: >Greetings, TOPS-20 fans!

From: P&= G Wexelblat <wex@changing-leaves.com>
To: David Me= yer <PAPA@TWENEX.ORG>, <tops-20@Lingling.Panda.COM><= br> Date: 03/08/= 2011 06:09 PM
Subject: Re:= New member greeting




At 5:51 AM -0800 3/7/11, David Meyer wrote:
>Greetings, TOPS-20 fans!
>
>Just a wannabe programmer from Japan who's long been curious about = the OS
>that incubated so many of the concepts that power the computer worl= d today.
>Finally availing myself of the public system at twenex.org trying t= o figure
>out what TOPS-20 is about.
>
>Thought I'd sign up for the mailing list and see how many devotees = are
>still kicking around.
>
>Long Live TOPS-20!
>
>--
>David Meyer
>Takarazuka, Japan
>papa@twenex.org
>-------

Hi,

I really have nothing to do with these systems these days, but I was at= BBN when TENEX was written, (I made a tiny contribution to the ARPAnet= ), and did TOPS-10 OS work whilst at DEC ('70's and 80's).  A teen= sie bit of my tops-10 IPCF code found its way into TOPS-20, and I contr= ibuted to "the Compatibility Package" while at BBN  (Ten= ex/Tops-20)

But a piece of me still has me subscribing to this list :)

Welcome
--
--
       ...wex (10-3610) (PMW on the monitor listin= gs)



= --1__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3-- --0__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3 Content-type: image/gif; name="graycol.gif" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="graycol.gif" Content-ID: <1__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93@navyfederal.org> Content-transfer-encoding: base64 R0lGODlhEAAQAKECAMzMzAAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAAQABAAAAIXlI+py+0PopwxUbpu ZRfKZ2zgSJbmSRYAIf4fT3B0aW1pemVkIGJ5IFVsZWFkIFNtYXJ0U2F2ZXIhAAA7 --0__=0ABBF2DDDFA925E38f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF2DDDFA925E3-- 8-Dec-2011 10:29:29-PST,1990;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:20:28 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:14:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:08:18 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Forth on TOPS-20? To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-ID: <14654834152.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:20:05 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Forth on TOPS-20? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) I'm looking for a "new" implementation of Forth for TOPS-20. Here on twenex.org, we have an implementation called FORTH-10 that comes with MIDAS assembler source and no other documentation that I can find. It's not ANS Forth-compliant (not a big deal) and buggy (a big deal for assembler-challenged me). I've found MACRO source for FIG-FORTH[1], but it's written to run on RT-11 or RSX-11M, and doesn't assemble out-of-the-box on TOPS-20. I've also found source for Caltech Forth[2]. It goes through the assembler without errors, but I can't get it to link. (I understand neither FIG-Forth nor Caltech Forth is ANS-compliant either, but that both served as references when the standard was being formulated.) I am going to try to teach myself MACRO, and maybe MIDAS, too, but in the mean time any tips on Forth for TOPS-20 would be appreciated. [1]: http://www.forth.org/library/eforth_SOC/eforth_SOC_source/figforth/PDP114TH.ZIP [2]: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib10-04/01/43,50361/forth.mac ------- 8-Dec-2011 10:37:57-PST,1563;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:28:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:28:34 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@hsinghsing.panda.com To: David Meyer cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? In-Reply-To: <14654834152.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: References: <14654834152.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 8 Dec 2011, David Meyer wrote: > I've found MACRO source for FIG-FORTH[1], but it's written to run on > RT-11 or RSX-11M, and doesn't assemble out-of-the-box on TOPS-20. As you discovered, that will not help you. The PDP-11 has a completely different instruction set from the PDP-10 and a different word size (16-bit instead of 36-bit). > I've also found source for Caltech Forth[2]. It goes through the > assembler without errors, but I can't get it to link. I took a quick look at it. It has to be lunk with the Fortran library. Unfortunately, I don't have time to play with it further, but try adding SYS:FORLIB.REL to your load command. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/tops-20 TOPS-20: a great improvement over its successors 8-Dec-2011 11:26:13-PST,1452;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:17:23 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:44:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:29:42 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: TOPS-20 "scripts"? To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-ID: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:17:16 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: TOPS-20 "scripts"? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Is there a way to get EXEC to run a list of commands stored in an arbitrary file, like a Unix shell script? Similar to how commands in LOGIN.CMD, COMMAND.CMD and BATCH.CMD get run automatically, but initiated by the user. Also like the batch facility, except output goes straight to the user's monitor. I don't need variable substitution or flow control, just executing one or more "pre-canned" commands in sequence. Thanks. -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 8-Dec-2011 11:29:49-PST,1312;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@hsinghsing.panda.com To: David Meyer cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? In-Reply-To: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: References: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thu, 8 Dec 2011, David Meyer wrote: > Is there a way to get EXEC to run a list of commands stored in an arbitrary > file, like a Unix shell script? Yes. It's the DO command. The command files are similar to batch files, but with an extension of .MIC instead of .CTL. CTRL/A aborts a DO in progress. You can also extend the EXEC command language using the PCL facility. Reads PCL.TXT. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/tops-20 TOPS-20: a great improvement over its successors 8-Dec-2011 11:33:20-PST,847;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from vsta.org ([208.70.148.177]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from bruiser.vsta.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vsta.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF182AD75F for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:25:36 -0800 (PST) To: David Meyer From: Andy Valencia Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Dec 2011 10:29:42 PST." <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-Id: <20111208192536.AF182AD75F@vsta.org> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:25:36 -0800 (PST) -------- [David Meyer writes:] > Is there a way to get EXEC to run a list of commands stored in an arbitrary > file, like a Unix shell script? Isn't it just "@"? Andy 8-Dec-2011 11:38:19-PST,1808;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:52 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@hsinghsing.panda.com To: David Meyer cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? In-Reply-To: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: References: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:43 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On Thu, 8 Dec 2011, David Meyer wrote: > Is there a way to get EXEC to run a list of commands stored in an arbitrary > file, like a Unix shell script? Yes. It's the DO command. The command files are similar to batch files, but with an extension of .MIC instead of .CTL. CTRL/A aborts a DO in progress. You can also extend the EXEC command language using the PCL facility. Reads PCL.TXT. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/tops-20 TOPS-20: a great improvement over its successors 8-Dec-2011 11:47:29-PST,2318;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:36:22 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from www.pfarrell.com ([70.184.242.241]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by www.pfarrell.com (Postfix, from userid 1009) id 83C0C31C40D4; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:29:34 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on www.pfarrell.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=6.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Received: from way.pfarrell.com (way.local [172.16.4.67]) by www.pfarrell.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE2831C409F; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:29:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4EE1101D.5020200@pfarrell.com> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:29:33 -0500 From: Pat Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? References: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:36:11 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On 12/8/11 1:29 PM, David Meyer wrote: > Is there a way to get EXEC to run a list of commands stored in an arbitrary > file, like a Unix shell script? Similar to how commands in LOGIN.CMD, > COMMAND.CMD and BATCH.CMD get run automatically, but initiated by the user. > Also like the batch facility, except output goes straight to the user's > monitor. > I think I remember that the "take" command did that. Also there was PCL for exec, I think CMU started it. Programmable Command Language. vintage 83? -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ 8-Dec-2011 11:55:27-PST,1857;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:40:30 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:39:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:39:21 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@hsinghsing.panda.com To: Pat Farrell cc: TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? In-Reply-To: <4EE1101D.5020200@pfarrell.com> Message-ID: References: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <4EE1101D.5020200@pfarrell.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:40:23 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On Thu, 8 Dec 2011, Pat Farrell wrote: > I think I remember that the "take" command did that. TAKE is like a .login or .profile file - it is commands for the EXEC but can't send input to a program. DO can send into to a program as well as the EXEC. > Also there was PCL for exec, I think CMU started it. Programmable > Command Language. vintage 83? PCL is to add commands to the EXEC using a scripting language. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/tops-20 TOPS-20: a great improvement over its successors 8-Dec-2011 13:05:45-PST,2460;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from asmtpout023.mac.com ([17.148.16.98]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:57:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [192.168.222.250] (c-98-234-52-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.234.52.100]) by asmtp023.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0LVW007C5KT08Z10@asmtp023.mac.com> for PAPA@TWENEX.ORG; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:55:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.5.7110,1.0.211,0.0.0000 definitions=2011-12-08_08:2011-12-08,2011-12-08,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1012030000 definitions=main-1112080218 Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? From: "William \"Chops\" Westfield" In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:55:48 -0800 Cc: Pat Farrell , TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Message-id: <8FC1B66F-1D4C-4589-BA9C-139AD7C36745@mac.com> References: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <4EE1101D.5020200@pfarrell.com> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) On Dec 8, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Mark Crispin wrote: > TAKE is like a .login or .profile file - it is commands for the EXEC but can't send input to a program. TAKE is like the login.cmd files Dave asked about. It only accepts EXEC commands, and remember that the tops20 exec doesn't support much in the way of conditional execution, parameters, or etc (in contrast to most unix shells or dos .BAT files.) (generally uses .CMD files, I think.) > DO can send into to a program as well as the EXEC. IIRC, "DO" is supposed to provide almost the same functionality as batch files, with very similar syntax. (generally uses .MIC files.) > PCL is to add commands to the EXEC using a scripting language. PCL is more like TCL; while it's designed to write interactive commands and is intimately integrated with the exec, PCL programs look more like programs and less like just a list of exec commands. (Generally uses .PCL files.) BillW 8-Dec-2011 13:12:00-PST,3098;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 13:06:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 13:02:36 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from asmtpout023.mac.com ([17.148.16.98]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:55:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Received: from [192.168.222.250] (c-98-234-52-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.234.52.100]) by asmtp023.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0LVW007C5KT08Z10@asmtp023.mac.com> for TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:55:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.5.7110,1.0.211,0.0.0000 definitions=2011-12-08_08:2011-12-08,2011-12-08,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1012030000 definitions=main-1112080218 Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? From: "William \"Chops\" Westfield" In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:55:48 -0800 Cc: Pat Farrell , TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Message-id: <8FC1B66F-1D4C-4589-BA9C-139AD7C36745@mac.com> References: <14654838046.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <4EE1101D.5020200@pfarrell.com> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 13:02:19 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: TOPS-20 "scripts"? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On Dec 8, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Mark Crispin wrote: > TAKE is like a .login or .profile file - it is commands for the EXEC but can't send input to a program. TAKE is like the login.cmd files Dave asked about. It only accepts EXEC commands, and remember that the tops20 exec doesn't support much in the way of conditional execution, parameters, or etc (in contrast to most unix shells or dos .BAT files.) (generally uses .CMD files, I think.) > DO can send into to a program as well as the EXEC. IIRC, "DO" is supposed to provide almost the same functionality as batch files, with very similar syntax. (generally uses .MIC files.) > PCL is to add commands to the EXEC using a scripting language. PCL is more like TCL; while it's designed to write interactive commands and is intimately integrated with the exec, PCL programs look more like programs and less like just a list of exec commands. (Generally uses .PCL files.) BillW 8-Dec-2011 14:41:49-PST,1892;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mail.xkl.com ([192.94.202.37]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from tardis.xkl.com (mail0.xkl.com [192.94.202.35]) by mail.xkl.com (8.14.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id pB8MV5v4012692 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:31:07 -0800 Received: from obfuscation.xkl.com (obfuscation.xkl.com [10.10.0.240]) by tardis.xkl.com (8.14.1/8.13.3/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id pB8MV0bY009271; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:31:02 -0800 Message-ID: <4EE13AA4.3000408@xkl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:31:00 -0800 From: Ralph Gorin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Crispin CC: David Meyer , tops-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? References: <14654834152.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 10.1.0.29 I tried linking forth.mac with sys:forlib/search It left one undefined global, FLT.2. I tried linking with the forlib from fortran v6. No undefined symbols. For your information, FLT.2 contains the following, per DDT: flt.2/ FLTR 2,2 FLT.2+1/ POPJ 17, I haven't tried running it. Ralph The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at the above e-mail address. 8-Dec-2011 15:13:35-PST,2498;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:04:23 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from mail.xkl.com ([192.94.202.37]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:31:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from tardis.xkl.com (mail0.xkl.com [192.94.202.35]) by mail.xkl.com (8.14.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id pB8MV2di012688; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:31:04 -0800 X-Received: from obfuscation.xkl.com (obfuscation.xkl.com [10.10.0.240]) by tardis.xkl.com (8.14.1/8.13.3/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id pB8MV0bY009271; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:31:02 -0800 Message-ID: <4EE13AA4.3000408@xkl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:31:00 -0800 From: Ralph Gorin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Crispin CC: David Meyer , tops-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? References: <14654834152.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 10.1.0.29 ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:04:14 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) I tried linking forth.mac with sys:forlib/search It left one undefined global, FLT.2. I tried linking with the forlib from fortran v6. No undefined symbols. For your information, FLT.2 contains the following, per DDT: flt.2/ FLTR 2,2 FLT.2+1/ POPJ 17, I haven't tried running it. Ralph The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at the above e-mail address. 8-Dec-2011 17:01:36-PST,1442;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:57:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:53:11 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:39:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com In-Reply-To: <4EE13AA4.3000408@xkl.com> Message-ID: <14654893203.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:53:03 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) > I tried linking forth.mac with sys:forlib/search > It left one undefined global, FLT.2. I tried this. I got the same error, but it also produced an .EXE file. The executable runs and starts a Forth interpreter prompt, but very few Forth words are defined. I will try to figure out how to load FORSYS.DAT that comes with the source. (LOAD is NOT defined out-of-the-box!) -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 8-Dec-2011 17:03:47-PST,1180;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from vsta.org ([208.70.148.177]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from bruiser.vsta.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vsta.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0369FAD75F for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:55:56 -0800 (PST) To: David Meyer From: Andy Valencia Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:32:41 PST." <14654893203.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-Id: <20111209005557.0369FAD75F@vsta.org> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:55:56 -0800 (PST) -------- [David Meyer writes:] > I tried this. I got the same error, but it also produced an .EXE file. The > executable runs and starts a Forth interpreter prompt, but very few Forth > words are defined. I will try to figure out how to load FORSYS.DAT that > comes with the source. (LOAD is NOT defined out-of-the-box!) Maybe obvious, but remember that old Forths have everything in upper case, and demand that you type it that way. If it doesn't have "WORDS", it might have "VLIST". Good luck! Andy 8-Dec-2011 18:20:48-PST,2323;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from asmtpout028.mac.com ([17.148.16.103]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 18:12:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [192.168.222.250] (c-98-234-52-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.234.52.100]) by asmtp028.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0LVW009ZIZE6EN30@asmtp028.mac.com> for PAPA@TWENEX.ORG; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:10:55 -0800 (PST) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.5.7110,1.0.211,0.0.0000 definitions=2011-12-08_09:2011-12-08,2011-12-08,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1012030000 definitions=main-1112080311 Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? From: "William \"Chops\" Westfield" In-reply-to: <14654893203.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:10:54 -0800 Message-id: References: <14654893203.9.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) On Dec 8, 2011, at 3:32 PM, David Meyer wrote: > I will try to figure out how to load FORSYS.DAT that comes with the source. Good luck. Forth is one of those particularly byte-oriented languages. There should be no shortage of larger Forth word sets written "mostly" in some minimal subset of forth itself (possibly not in source form), out on the net somewhere. (www.forth.org ?) (for instance, here's a definition for backslash from AMForth (for Atmel AVR.) It's nominally in AVR assembler, but actually produces a pre-compiled set of threaded primitives: ; ( -- ) Compiler ; R( -- ) ; everything up to the end of the current line is a comment VE_BACKSLASH: .dw $0001 .db "\",0 .dw VE_HEAD .set VE_HEAD = VE_BACKSLASH XT_BACKSLASH: .dw DO_COLON PFA_BACKSLASH: .dw XT_SOURCE .dw XT_SWAP .dw XT_DROP .dw XT_G_IN .dw XT_STORE .dw XT_EXIT It looks like most of the CLI/Parser/"compiler" is written that way.) BillW 8-Dec-2011 20:16:07-PST,1283;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from dbit.dbit.com ([208.238.226.25]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 20:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from dbit.dbit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dbit.dbit.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pB948KU7005671 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 23:08:20 -0500 Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id pB948KUd005670 for PAPA@TWENEX.ORG; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 23:08:20 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 23:08:20 -0500 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <201112090408.pB948KUd005670@dbit.dbit.com> To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? This list makes me paranoid: I can't tell whether it just doesn't echo me copies of my own posts, or whether they're being intentionally delayed for many hours, and/or filtered outright. What I *thought* I replied was: I wrote most of a FORTH for TOPS-20 in 1985-86, on a guest account on MIT-OZ. It's written in heavily commented MIDAS, needs no libraries, and if it would mean someone would actually *use* it, I'd be very interested in jumping back in and fleshing it out to full FORTH-83. If you're interested in playing with it, it's forth.mid in pub/pdp10/tops20 on ftp.dbit.com. John Wilson (JOHNW) D Bit 19-Dec-2011 10:02:47-PST,1402;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:57:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 9 Dec 2011 13:14:00 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 9 Dec 2011 07:51:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 07:36:02 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? To: wilson@dbit.com, tops-20@lingling.panda.com Reply-To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com In-Reply-To: <201112090408.pB948KUd005670@dbit.dbit.com> Message-ID: <14655068575.7.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 13:13:51 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Forth on TOPS-20? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Wow! That's cool. Assembled and linked as-is on twenex.org. In spite of being incomplete, it seems less buggy than the installed FORTH-10. I'm just learning Forth myself, but if you'd like to complete "OZ-Forth", I'd certainly be willing to help test it here. -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 20-Dec-2011 16:54:40-PST,2764;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:48:26 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from mail.math.utah.edu ([155.101.98.135]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:38:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from psi.math.utah.edu (psi.math.utah.edu [155.101.96.19]) by mail.math.utah.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id pBL0cLt3018383; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:38:21 -0700 (MST) X-Received: from psi.math.utah.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psi.math.utah.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pBL0cLJp011759; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:38:21 -0700 (MST) X-Received: (from beebe@localhost) by psi.math.utah.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id pBL0cLnS011758; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:38:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:38:21 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: Tops-20 Wizards Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: DEC-20 day forgotten? Message-ID: X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.8 (mail.math.utah.edu [155.101.98.135]); Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:38:21 -0700 (MST) ReSent-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:48:16 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: DEC-20 day forgotten? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Today is Dec-20 2011; this list usually carries a birthday greeting for the DEC-20. Maybe everyone but me forgot? For us at the University of Utah Mathematics Department, October 31 2011 marked the 21st anniversary of the retirement of our DEC-20/60. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20-Dec-2011 17:28:24-PST,2776;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:22:42 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.1]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:06:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from MacPro.local ([unknown] [96.231.203.19]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0LWJ00KBJ4E10KUA@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:06:02 -0600 (CST) Message-id: <4EF130F9.6090608@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:06:01 -0500 From: bob smith Reply-to: Bob Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20111121 Firefox/8.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.5 MIME-version: 1.0 To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Cc: Tops-20 Wizards Subject: Re: DEC-20 day forgotten? References: In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ReSent-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:22:34 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: DEC-20 day forgotten? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > Today is Dec-20 2011; this list usually carries a birthday greeting > for the DEC-20. Maybe everyone but me forgot? > > For us at the University of Utah Mathematics Department, October 31 > 2011 marked the 21st anniversary of the retirement of our DEC-20/60. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - > - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - > - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - > - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - > - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > forgot to say this at home, but did remind everyone at work!1 So thank you for the reminder!! Happy DEC 20 Day! -- We'll see said the zen master 20-Dec-2011 20:27:07-PST,4321;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:23:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:21:17 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from mail.math.utah.edu ([155.101.98.135]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:11:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from psi.math.utah.edu (psi.math.utah.edu [155.101.96.19]) by mail.math.utah.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id pBL2AxXN023285; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:10:59 -0700 (MST) X-Received: from psi.math.utah.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psi.math.utah.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pBL2Ax8X010424; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:10:59 -0700 (MST) X-Received: (from beebe@localhost) by psi.math.utah.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id pBL2Ax3j010422; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:10:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:10:59 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: Tops-20 Wizards Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Some TOPS-nn nostalgia Message-ID: X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.8 (mail.math.utah.edu [155.101.98.135]); Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:10:59 -0700 (MST) ReSent-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:21:10 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Some TOPS-nn nostalgia ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) I had occasion today to consult the Unix manual pages for tcsh (one of several Unix command shells), and came across this section (probably known to most of you, but just in case, it won't hurt to reproduce it here): THE T IN TCSH In 1964, DEC produced the PDP-6. The PDP-10 was a later re-implementa- tion. It was re-christened the DECsystem-10 in 1970 or so when DEC brought out the second model, the KI10. TENEX was created at Bolt, Beranek & Newman (a Cambridge, Massachusetts think tank) in 1972 as an experiment in demand-paged virtual memory operating systems. They built a new pager for the DEC PDP-10 and cre- ated the OS to go with it. It was extremely successful in academia. In 1975, DEC brought out a new model of the PDP-10, the KL10; they intended to have only a version of TENEX, which they had licensed from BBN, for the new box. They called their version TOPS-20 (their capi- talization is trademarked). A lot of TOPS-10 users (`The OPerating System for PDP-10') objected; thus DEC found themselves supporting two incompatible systems on the same hardware--but then there were 6 on the PDP-11! TENEX, and TOPS-20 to version 3, had command completion via a user- code-level subroutine library called ULTCMD. With version 3, DEC moved all that capability and more into the monitor (`kernel' for you Unix types), accessed by the COMND% JSYS (`Jump to SYStem' instruction, the supervisor call mechanism [are my IBM roots also showing?]). The creator of tcsh was impressed by this feature and several others of TENEX and TOPS-20, and created a version of csh which mimicked them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21-Dec-2011 07:59:43-PST,1898;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:53:49 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from news.zipcon.net ([209.221.136.9]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 01:48:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from zipcon.net (zipcon.net [209.221.136.5]) by news.zipcon.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id pBL9n6Rx018556 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 01:49:06 -0800 X-Received: (qmail 23280 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2011 09:49:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO zipcon.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTP; 21 Dec 2011 09:49:05 -0000 Reply-To: kkt@zipcon.com From: kkt@zipcon.com To: TOPS-20@Lingling.Panda.COM Subject: Re: DEC-20 day forgotten? Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 01:49:05 -800 Message-Id: <4ef1ab91dafe46.29116727@zipcon.com> References: X-Authenticated-IP: [209.221.140.215] X-Sender: kkt@zipcon.com X-Mailer: Zipcon Mail X-Info-Zipcon-Mail: Abuse reports to abuse@zipcon.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ReSent-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:53:43 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: DEC-20 day forgotten? ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) > Today is Dec-20 2011; this list usually carries a birthday greeting > for the DEC-20. Maybe everyone but me forgot? Not forgotten at all! I didn't post to this list, but I posted to alt.folklore.computers and alt.sys.pdp10. Happy DEC-20, Patrick 21-Dec-2011 08:05:10-PST,4232;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:54:07 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from ausxippc101.us.dell.com ([143.166.85.207]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:27 -0800 (PST) X-Loopcount0: from 10.152.216.25 Subject: Re: Some TOPS-nn nostalgia Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: John Francini In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:35:20 -0500 Cc: Tops-20 Wizards Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Nelson H. F. Beebe X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) ReSent-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:53:57 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Some TOPS-nn nostalgia ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Now if only there was a UNIX "shell" that replaced the = hard-to-figure-out command names (awk, cat, grep, ls, etc) with command = verbs, a la TOPS-20 and VMS DCL, and translated all the curt command = options into real words too... j On 20 Dec 2011, at 21:10, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > I had occasion today to consult the Unix manual pages for tcsh (one of > several Unix command shells), and came across this section (probably > known to most of you, but just in case, it won't hurt to reproduce it > here): >=20 > THE T IN TCSH > In 1964, DEC produced the PDP-6. The PDP-10 was a later = re-implementa- > tion. It was re-christened the DECsystem-10 in 1970 or so = when DEC > brought out the second model, the KI10. >=20 > TENEX was created at Bolt, Beranek & Newman (a Cambridge, = Massachusetts > think tank) in 1972 as an experiment in demand-paged virtual = memory > operating systems. They built a new pager for the DEC PDP-10 = and cre- > ated the OS to go with it. It was extremely successful in = academia. >=20 > In 1975, DEC brought out a new model of the PDP-10, the = KL10; they > intended to have only a version of TENEX, which they had = licensed from > BBN, for the new box. They called their version TOPS-20 (their = capi- > talization is trademarked). A lot of TOPS-10 users (`The = OPerating > System for PDP-10') objected; thus DEC found themselves = supporting two > incompatible systems on the same hardware--but then there were 6 = on the > PDP-11! >=20 > TENEX, and TOPS-20 to version 3, had command completion via a = user- > code-level subroutine library called ULTCMD. With version 3, = DEC moved > all that capability and more into the monitor (`kernel' for = you Unix > types), accessed by the COMND% JSYS (`Jump to SYStem' = instruction, the > supervisor call mechanism [are my IBM roots also showing?]). >=20 > The creator of tcsh was impressed by this feature and several = others of > TENEX and TOPS-20, and created a version of csh which mimicked = them. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 = - > - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 = - > - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: = beebe@math.utah.edu - > - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org = beebe@computer.org - > - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: = http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >=20 21-Dec-2011 10:19:21-PST,257;000000000011 Mail-From: SMJ created at 21-Dec-2011 10:19:21 Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:19:21 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Jones Subject: httpd should be running again To: papa@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14658244035.15.SMJ@TWENEX.ORG> enjoy ------- 21-Dec-2011 18:22:55-PST,5223;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:15:07 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from o101.p4.mailjet.com ([178.33.221.101]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:15:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; d=bnc.mailjet.com; i=@bnc.mailjet.com; s=mailjet; h=message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:to:subject:date:importance:x-priority:in-reply-to:references; bh=s8jXP0jdQ1NujsdDVyWap98Q8jc=; b=fIDkkqIAALeTi/sGxV7jwgJX9OVKvaDyJzyJ5a30rHZaZBeDiLjdLvmYW8y0AjPgBFT2fhczcaAZzPKTKIzOfapdH5nC99lu9dcjbhfXJqIrkdPHN8mcJI4Iuej3ZHrqBsL9+6zp99tDrvmNAiwqh6kcAaW3pb0/uKUhvmhhmSQ= Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 From: "Rich Braun" To: "Tops-20 Wizards" Subject: Christmas! Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:15:24 -0500 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ReSent-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:14:40 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Christmas! ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Last night I was rooting through some files and found a little treasure f= rom my 36-bit days. I have to re-type the whole thing, you'll see why. It's= my Christmas greetings (one of those annoying letters you find in greeting c= ards, which usually cite graduations, births and surgical operations) from a ye= ar near & dear to those of us here on the list. Mine's a little different. = ;-) Enjoy! Hi __________: Well, another year has come to an end, and it's so close to the end that = I'm having a hard time getting these cards mailed out. So I thought I'd have= my friendly local DEC-20 computer do it for me... after all, isn't that what computers are for? (besides keeping track of how many speeding tickets y= ou have or figuring how much to overcharge you on your phone bill.) This year has been a big change for me. First thing I did was to free my= self from all the horrors of college existence and take off for the "real worl= d", which is why you haven't seen too much of me at the University of Delawar= e.=20 And you ask, when are you getting your degree? Well, maybe 1984...maybe 1985...sigh, it will take a while. But its been a lot of fun living up i= n the Boston area and working in a big engineering project. Lately I've been t= aking courses one by one at MIT to finish my degree; I need 5 more to get an EE degree from Delaware. Oh, if you are ever wondering just what obscure th= ing it is I do for work, read Tracy Kidder's "Soul of a New Machine" and pict= ure me as one of the Microkids. Unlike theirs, though, ours is taking well o= ver 4 years to produce. Boston is too cold. Maybe I should move to California. But, at least th= e winters are "real" here, not like they were back in Virginia. With a new starter & battery, my new (well, different) car should be the first to la= st all the way through a winter. (knock on plastic...) I got my first genuine DEC turkey this year. (DEC is my company, the tur= key was my boss...uh, no, actually it was a real turkey). We had a good "x-m= as" meal with it this past weekend at my house, one of the few things that wi= ll get 4 of the 5 people into the place all at once. The people I live with= are all pretty cool, and slightly unusual in their own ways. Jeff (an MIT gr= ad, believe it or not) spends his time too stoned to notice much; RMS is alwa= ys asleep except from midnite to 8; Josh likes VAX computers; and Bill is a Harvard grad student (need anything more be said?). I got alarmed when B= ill called me "the most normal person in the house". One good thing about le= aving fulltime school is that I have been able to live in one place for almost = a year. Oh well, here's to hacking; goofing off; taking yet more courses; pursuit= of happiness (& cute people!); eating peanut butter, pickles, and root beer; having Vaseline, Black light, Twinkies, & Beer (VBTB) parties; and all th= e other strangeness of 1982, all still in sight for 1983. Oh, and down wit= h double nickels (55); Sunday closing laws; Massachusetts politics; Reagan'= s college budget cuts; and economic recessions... Hope you had a good year in '82, and that this coming year turns out even better! See ya sometime; I have a big house so there's space for you in Cambridge whenever you want to visit. affectionately, rich 21-Dec-2011 20:19:11-PST,2199;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:07:04 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from mailbackend.panix.com ([166.84.1.89]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 19:56:06 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from panix5.panix.com (panix5.panix.com [166.84.1.5]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459F4289EA for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:56:01 -0500 (EST) X-Received: by panix5.panix.com (Postfix, from userid 17662) id 547D52425C; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: Rich Alderson To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Happy DEC-20 Day delayed Message-Id: <20111222035601.547D52425C@panix5.panix.com> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:56:01 -0500 (EST) ReSent-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:06:56 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Happy DEC-20 Day delayed ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Rejected by a mailer daemon... Received: from mailbackend.panix.com (mailbackend.panix.com [166.84.1.89]) by l2mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC759E for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:07:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from panix5.panix.com (panix5.panix.com [166.84.1.5]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89C72876D for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:06:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by panix5.panix.com (Postfix, from userid 17662) id C7B942425D; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:06:56 -0500 (EST) From: Rich Alderson To: tops-20@panda.com Subject: Happy DEC-20 Day! Message-Id: <20111220200656.C7B942425D@panix5.panix.com> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:06:56 -0500 (EST) ...from chilly Chicagoland! And a joyous Winter Solstice festival of choice to all! Rich Alderson 21-Dec-2011 20:58:39-PST,5287;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:49:47 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from news.zipcon.net ([209.221.136.9]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:19:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from zipcon.net (zipcon.net [209.221.136.5]) by news.zipcon.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id pBM2VR9M001226 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:31:27 -0800 X-Received: (qmail 30245 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2011 02:31:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO zipcon.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTP; 22 Dec 2011 02:31:26 -0000 Reply-To: kkt@zipcon.com From: kkt@zipcon.com To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Christmas! Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:31:26 -800 Message-Id: <4ef2967ead0dc0.31005316@zipcon.com> References: X-Authenticated-IP: [209.221.140.215] X-Sender: kkt@zipcon.com X-Mailer: Zipcon Mail X-Info-Zipcon-Mail: Abuse reports to abuse@zipcon.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ReSent-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:49:41 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Christmas! ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) That was fun! What was the engineering project -- Jupiter? -- Patrick > Last night I was rooting through some files and found a little treasure f= > rom > my 36-bit days. I have to re-type the whole thing, you'll see why. It's= > my > Christmas greetings (one of those annoying letters you find in greeting c= > ards, > which usually cite graduations, births and surgical operations) from a ye= > ar > near & dear to those of us here on the list. Mine's a little different. = > ;-) > Enjoy! > > Hi __________: > > Well, another year has come to an end, and it's so close to the end that = > I'm > having a hard time getting these cards mailed out. So I thought I'd have= > my > friendly local DEC-20 computer do it for me... after all, isn't that what > computers are for? (besides keeping track of how many speeding tickets y= > ou > have or figuring how much to overcharge you on your phone bill.) > > This year has been a big change for me. First thing I did was to free my= > self > from all the horrors of college existence and take off for the "real worl= > d", > which is why you haven't seen too much of me at the University of Delawar= > e.=20 > And you ask, when are you getting your degree? Well, maybe 1984...maybe > 1985...sigh, it will take a while. But its been a lot of fun living up i= > n the > Boston area and working in a big engineering project. Lately I've been t= > aking > courses one by one at MIT to finish my degree; I need 5 more to get an EE > degree from Delaware. Oh, if you are ever wondering just what obscure th= > ing > it is I do for work, read Tracy Kidder's "Soul of a New Machine" and pict= > ure > me as one of the Microkids. Unlike theirs, though, ours is taking well o= > ver 4 > years to produce. > > Boston is too cold. Maybe I should move to California. But, at least th= > e > winters are "real" here, not like they were back in Virginia. With a new > starter & battery, my new (well, different) car should be the first to la= > st > all the way through a winter. (knock on plastic...) > > I got my first genuine DEC turkey this year. (DEC is my company, the tur= > key > was my boss...uh, no, actually it was a real turkey). We had a good "x-m= > as" > meal with it this past weekend at my house, one of the few things that wi= > ll > get 4 of the 5 people into the place all at once. The people I live with= > are > all pretty cool, and slightly unusual in their own ways. Jeff (an MIT gr= > ad, > believe it or not) spends his time too stoned to notice much; RMS is alwa= > ys > asleep except from midnite to 8; Josh likes VAX computers; and Bill is a > Harvard grad student (need anything more be said?). I got alarmed when B= > ill > called me "the most normal person in the house". One good thing about le= > aving > fulltime school is that I have been able to live in one place for almost = > a > year. > > Oh well, here's to hacking; goofing off; taking yet more courses; pursuit= > of > happiness (& cute people!); eating peanut butter, pickles, and root beer; > having Vaseline, Black light, Twinkies, & Beer (VBTB) parties; and all th= > e > other strangeness of 1982, all still in sight for 1983. Oh, and down wit= > h > double nickels (55); Sunday closing laws; Massachusetts politics; Reagan'= > s > college budget cuts; and economic recessions... > > Hope you had a good year in '82, and that this coming year turns out even > better! See ya sometime; I have a big house so there's space for you in > Cambridge whenever you want to visit. > > affectionately, > > rich > > > > > 24-Dec-2011 08:18:39-PST,1252;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:12:57 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 03:21:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 03:12:55 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Simple Things To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-ID: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:12:41 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) There are a couple of seemingly simple tasks that I haven't been able to find TOPS-20 commands for. Is there a way to do them, or do I need to hack something up myself? 1. Type file contents with the line number prepended to each line. 2. List directory file names in multiple columns. ------- 25-Dec-2011 09:25:04-PST,1688;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:17:09 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:11:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:02:44 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Editor Manuals To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-ID: <14659278664.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Editor Manuals ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) I was wondering about the manuals for the three editors mentioned in the TOPS-20 User's Guide: EDIT, TV, and EDT-20. Although there is some terse online help for EDIT and EDT-20, and TV shares a lot of commands with other TECO implementations, there was apparently a full manual for each of these and other documents. These documents are listed in numerous document lists (they're part of TOPS-20 Notebooks 3 and 23), but I haven't been able to find the manuals themselves. Has anyone scanned these documents and made them available online, or are the only surviving copies buried beneath heaps of molding 30-year-old print- outs? I suppose the copyright on all these former DEC documents is now owned by HP. ------- 26-Dec-2011 17:47:52-PST,2416;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.102]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 17:43:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 26 Dec 2011 20:43:04 -0500 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BGI04040; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:43:04 -0500 X-Auth-ID: AMartin.MA.UltraNet Received: from c-24-147-18-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([24.147.18.15]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 26 Dec 2011 20:43:04 -0500 Message-ID: <4EF922A7.4010809@RCN.Com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:43:03 -0500 From: "Alan H. Martin" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Meyer CC: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Simple Things References: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) On 12/24/2011 6:12 AM, David Meyer wrote: > There are a couple of seemingly simple tasks that I haven't been able > to find TOPS-20 commands for. Is there a way to do them, or do I need > to hack something up myself? > > 1. Type file contents with the line number prepended to each line. From the guest account on Twenex.Org: " @r pip *tty:=math.c/o 00001 #include 00002 #include 00003 00004 main() { 00005 00006 int r; 00007 float z,x; 00008 00009 for(r=0;r<60;r++) { 00010 z=r*3.14/180*6; 00011 printf("sin(%f)=%f cos(%f)=%f\n", z, sin(z), z, cos(z)); 00012 } 00013 00014 }*^C @ " > 2. List directory file names in multiple columns. With the worst case of 39 character filenames and 39 character extensions, maybe the specter of a single column of filespecs per line made it not worth implementing? If you are confined to directories full of 6.3 filespecs, get a copy of Tops-10 DIRECT.EXE and try DIRECT/F/W? Hope this helps, /AHM -- Alan Howard Martin AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com 26-Dec-2011 20:08:15-PST,3045;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:02:11 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.102]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 17:43:10 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 26 Dec 2011 20:43:04 -0500 X-Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BGI04040; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:43:04 -0500 X-Auth-ID: AMartin.MA.UltraNet X-Received: from c-24-147-18-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([24.147.18.15]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 26 Dec 2011 20:43:04 -0500 Message-ID: <4EF922A7.4010809@RCN.Com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:43:03 -0500 From: "Alan H. Martin" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Meyer CC: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Simple Things References: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) ReSent-Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:01:21 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On 12/24/2011 6:12 AM, David Meyer wrote: > There are a couple of seemingly simple tasks that I haven't been able > to find TOPS-20 commands for. Is there a way to do them, or do I need > to hack something up myself? > > 1. Type file contents with the line number prepended to each line. From the guest account on Twenex.Org: " @r pip *tty:=math.c/o 00001 #include 00002 #include 00003 00004 main() { 00005 00006 int r; 00007 float z,x; 00008 00009 for(r=0;r<60;r++) { 00010 z=r*3.14/180*6; 00011 printf("sin(%f)=%f cos(%f)=%f\n", z, sin(z), z, cos(z)); 00012 } 00013 00014 }*^C @ " > 2. List directory file names in multiple columns. With the worst case of 39 character filenames and 39 character extensions, maybe the specter of a single column of filespecs per line made it not worth implementing? If you are confined to directories full of 6.3 filespecs, get a copy of Tops-10 DIRECT.EXE and try DIRECT/F/W? Hope this helps, /AHM -- Alan Howard Martin AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com 28-Dec-2011 12:49:50-PST,1622;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:45:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:42:56 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:44:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:27:58 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: Simple Things To: AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com In-Reply-To: <4EF922A7.4010809@RCN.Com> Message-ID: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:42:39 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Thanks, Alan. I find it satisfyingly ironic that the solution to problems on the venerable TOPS-20 operating system is to dip into the well of even older technology. PIP predates even TOPS-10, doesn't it? Regarding printing a file with line numbers, I also found an alternative solution on my own. If I don't mind making the line numbers a permanent part of the file content, TOPS-20 standard EDIT.EXE automatically prepends lines with line numbers, as was necessary with BASIC-10 and other language source files. -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 28-Dec-2011 12:51:25-PST,2414;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qw0-f46.google.com ([209.85.216.46]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by qadc12 with SMTP id c12so7440986qad.19 for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=AZ/WUjx1VFz2zqPWGtCpPHmLpWoedPHoTcNiNc4Xf/8=; b=F8YOGTkYeFn6JZl1aZwrHcKt532YxVLuVWkO5Mxo5VB0G1003+Ome5/DcmueryHtdM DLc8UE2b3s/t0wQbiCN1yYWn7tpmkq+7dEKmOOZdB3AcQOtxsn64R6xn7iRLal/hgfHS bi3m3hqmrTFC5keAKo6Ck+GSLLmdKfjnSJ91M= Received: by 10.224.196.66 with SMTP id ef2mr39448980qab.94.1325105206755; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [172.22.12.34] ([207.164.135.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h9sm60316999qac.13.2011.12.28.12.46.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Simple Things Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ken Rossman In-Reply-To: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:46:44 -0500 Cc: AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com, tops-20@lingling.panda.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4ED0EF2E-3AA2-4229-921A-5998D87109B1@gmail.com> References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) PIP harks back all the way to RT11, I believe (and RSXnn)... KR On Dec 27, 2011, at 8:27 PM, David Meyer wrote: > Thanks, Alan. > > I find it satisfyingly ironic that the solution to problems on the > venerable TOPS-20 operating system is to dip into the well of even > older technology. PIP predates even TOPS-10, doesn't it? > > Regarding printing a file with line numbers, I also found an > alternative solution on my own. If I don't mind making the line > numbers a permanent part of the file content, TOPS-20 standard > EDIT.EXE automatically prepends lines with line numbers, as was > necessary with BASIC-10 and other language source files. > > -- > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > papa@twenex.org 28-Dec-2011 12:56:23-PST,1343;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:43:20 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:00:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 00:33:44 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: User Multitasking Tutorial To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-ID: <14659972435.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:43:08 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: User Multitasking Tutorial ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) I've created a short tutorial on how to use multiple programs at the same time from the same login (human multitasking) on TOPS-20: http://twenex.org/~papa/multiprg.txt Not very advanced, but something I wanted to be able to do while exploring Twenex.org. Any feedback would be appreciated. -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 28-Dec-2011 13:21:39-PST,1980;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ausxippc101.us.dell.com ([143.166.85.207]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:13:36 -0800 (PST) X-Loopcount0: from 10.152.216.25 Subject: Re: Simple Things Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: John Francini In-Reply-To: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:13:13 -0500 Cc: AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com, tops-20@lingling.panda.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) The SOS editor -- Son of Stopgap -- was an earlier TOPS-10 editor that = used line-numbered files. In case anyone forgets, the line numbers are = stored in an interesting way -- 5 numeric characters, aligned on a word = boundary, with Bit 0 lit. As to PIP -- it was original to the PDP-6, which means it came with the = OS that later became TOPS-10. According to the Hacker's Dictionary, = during development it was called ATLATL -- 'AnyThing, Lord, to AnyThing, = Lord'. PIP later was re-implemented on OS/8, RSX-11, RSTS/E, and CP/M. j On 27 Dec 2011, at 20:27, David Meyer wrote: > Thanks, Alan. >=20 > I find it satisfyingly ironic that the solution to problems on the > venerable TOPS-20 operating system is to dip into the well of even > older technology. PIP predates even TOPS-10, doesn't it? >=20 > Regarding printing a file with line numbers, I also found an > alternative solution on my own. If I don't mind making the line > numbers a permanent part of the file content, TOPS-20 standard > EDIT.EXE automatically prepends lines with line numbers, as was > necessary with BASIC-10 and other language source files. >=20 > -- > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > papa@twenex.org > ------- >=20 28-Dec-2011 13:35:05-PST,2168;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from asmtpout028.mac.com ([17.148.16.103]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:26:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [192.168.222.250] (c-98-234-52-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.234.52.100]) by asmtp028.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0LWX00NIPNL03U40@asmtp028.mac.com> for PAPA@TWENEX.ORG; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:27:01 -0800 (PST) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.5.7110,1.0.211,0.0.0000 definitions=2011-12-28_07:2011-12-28,2011-12-28,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1012030000 definitions=main-1112280141 Subject: Re: Simple Things From: "William \"Chops\" Westfield" In-reply-to: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:26:59 -0800 Cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-id: References: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) On Dec 24, 2011, at 3:12 AM, David Meyer wrote: > 1. Type file contents with the line number prepended to each line. The internal line numbers, or generated line numbers? The tops filesystems had an interesting system for allowing text files to include "invisible" line numbers (for use by SOS/etc.) IIRC, if the low bit of a 36bit word was set on a text file, that word was assumed to contain a line number (still text, I think) rather than actual "file contents." I recall accidentally getting files with both line numbers and numbers at the beginning of each line. So there were typically commands to print line numbers, create or resequence line numbers, or ignore the line numbers. At least in editors and such. PIP is ancient, and a generic DEC program used on many different OSes. BillW 28-Dec-2011 13:55:39-PST,3057;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:49:17 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com ([209.85.216.47]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by qadb17 with SMTP id b17so8785293qad.13 for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=AZ/WUjx1VFz2zqPWGtCpPHmLpWoedPHoTcNiNc4Xf/8=; b=F8YOGTkYeFn6JZl1aZwrHcKt532YxVLuVWkO5Mxo5VB0G1003+Ome5/DcmueryHtdM DLc8UE2b3s/t0wQbiCN1yYWn7tpmkq+7dEKmOOZdB3AcQOtxsn64R6xn7iRLal/hgfHS bi3m3hqmrTFC5keAKo6Ck+GSLLmdKfjnSJ91M= X-Received: by 10.224.196.66 with SMTP id ef2mr39448980qab.94.1325105206755; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from [172.22.12.34] ([207.164.135.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h9sm60316999qac.13.2011.12.28.12.46.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Simple Things Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ken Rossman In-Reply-To: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:46:44 -0500 Cc: AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com, tops-20@lingling.panda.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4ED0EF2E-3AA2-4229-921A-5998D87109B1@gmail.com> References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:49:08 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) PIP harks back all the way to RT11, I believe (and RSXnn)... KR On Dec 27, 2011, at 8:27 PM, David Meyer wrote: > Thanks, Alan. > > I find it satisfyingly ironic that the solution to problems on the > venerable TOPS-20 operating system is to dip into the well of even > older technology. PIP predates even TOPS-10, doesn't it? > > Regarding printing a file with line numbers, I also found an > alternative solution on my own. If I don't mind making the line > numbers a permanent part of the file content, TOPS-20 standard > EDIT.EXE automatically prepends lines with line numbers, as was > necessary with BASIC-10 and other language source files. > > -- > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > papa@twenex.org 28-Dec-2011 14:00:10-PST,2604;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:54:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:49:38 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from ausxippc101.us.dell.com ([143.166.85.207]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:13:20 -0800 (PST) X-Loopcount0: from 10.152.216.25 Subject: Re: Simple Things Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: John Francini In-Reply-To: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:13:13 -0500 Cc: AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com, tops-20@lingling.panda.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:49:29 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) The SOS editor -- Son of Stopgap -- was an earlier TOPS-10 editor that = used line-numbered files. In case anyone forgets, the line numbers are = stored in an interesting way -- 5 numeric characters, aligned on a word = boundary, with Bit 0 lit. As to PIP -- it was original to the PDP-6, which means it came with the = OS that later became TOPS-10. According to the Hacker's Dictionary, = during development it was called ATLATL -- 'AnyThing, Lord, to AnyThing, = Lord'. PIP later was re-implemented on OS/8, RSX-11, RSTS/E, and CP/M. j On 27 Dec 2011, at 20:27, David Meyer wrote: > Thanks, Alan. >=20 > I find it satisfyingly ironic that the solution to problems on the > venerable TOPS-20 operating system is to dip into the well of even > older technology. PIP predates even TOPS-10, doesn't it? >=20 > Regarding printing a file with line numbers, I also found an > alternative solution on my own. If I don't mind making the line > numbers a permanent part of the file content, TOPS-20 standard > EDIT.EXE automatically prepends lines with line numbers, as was > necessary with BASIC-10 and other language source files. >=20 > -- > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > papa@twenex.org > ------- >=20 28-Dec-2011 14:05:12-PST,2805;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:50:01 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from asmtpout028.mac.com ([17.148.16.103]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:27:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Received: from [192.168.222.250] (c-98-234-52-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.234.52.100]) by asmtp028.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0LWX00NIPNL03U40@asmtp028.mac.com> for tops-20@lingling.panda.com; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:27:01 -0800 (PST) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.5.7110,1.0.211,0.0.0000 definitions=2011-12-28_07:2011-12-28,2011-12-28,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1012030000 definitions=main-1112280141 Subject: Re: Simple Things From: "William \"Chops\" Westfield" In-reply-to: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:26:59 -0800 Cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-id: References: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: David Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:49:54 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On Dec 24, 2011, at 3:12 AM, David Meyer wrote: > 1. Type file contents with the line number prepended to each line. The internal line numbers, or generated line numbers? The tops filesystems had an interesting system for allowing text files to include "invisible" line numbers (for use by SOS/etc.) IIRC, if the low bit of a 36bit word was set on a text file, that word was assumed to contain a line number (still text, I think) rather than actual "file contents." I recall accidentally getting files with both line numbers and numbers at the beginning of each line. So there were typically commands to print line numbers, create or resequence line numbers, or ignore the line numbers. At least in editors and such. PIP is ancient, and a generic DEC program used on many different OSes. BillW 28-Dec-2011 15:35:43-PST,2330;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:29:18 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net ([66.92.66.68]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:23:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (thrintun.hactrn.net [IPv6:2002:425c:4242:0:219:d1ff:fe12:5d30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thrintun.hactrn.net", Issuer "Grunchweather Associates" (verified OK)) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CB832845C for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:22:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thrintun.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F4D174DF for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:22:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:22:53 -0500 From: Rob Austein To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Simple Things In-Reply-To: References: <14658952838.16.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/23.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20111228232253.C7F4D174DF@thrintun.hactrn.net> ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:29:04 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) Yep, SOS (rebranded as "EDIT-20") embedded 5 digit line numbers as a 36-bit word containing 5 digits in 7-bit ASCII and the low-order bit (bit 35) lit. Because of this, SOS also padded end of line with null characters up to the next word boundary. There was an OPENF% flag to strip out all this silliness so that other programs wouldn't have to deal with it, but that wasn't much help to programs which used PMAP% instead BIN% and SIN%. 28-Dec-2011 16:17:37-PST,4590;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:11:06 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.102]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:02:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.36]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 28 Dec 2011 19:02:37 -0500 X-Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BMR22373; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:02:36 -0500 X-Auth-ID: AMartin.MA.UltraNet X-Received: from c-24-147-18-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([24.147.18.15]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 28 Dec 2011 19:02:36 -0500 Message-ID: <4EFBAE1B.1050508@RCN.Com> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:02:35 -0500 From: "Alan H. Martin" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Simple Things References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net) ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:10:57 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On 12/28/2011 4:13 PM, John Francini wrote: ... > The SOS editor -- Son of Stopgap -- was an earlier TOPS-10 editor that > used line-numbered files. ... Earliest SOS copyright year: 1973 (http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/bb-x130a-sb/01/sos.mac.html) Earliest LINED copyright year: 1970 (http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/bb-x130a-sb/01/lined.mac.html) LINED is a (slight?) rewrite of the DECtape Editor (EDITOR); that shipped on the PDP-6. (http://www.tmk.com/ftp/humor/tops_history.txt) TECO got line sequence number support after V21A, because the /GENLSN and /SUPLSN switches have change bars in the V23 May-72 DEC-10-ETEE-D _Text Editor and Corrector Program Programmer's Reference Manual_ - the 5th section of the 1972 PDP-10 User's Handbook (Green Phone Book). (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS10/1972_PDP-10_Users_Handbook/05_tecoReference.pdf) In particular, those switches are not described in Book 4, _Editing the Source Program_, section _Text Editor and Corrector (TECO)_ of the 1970 _PDP-10 Reference Handbook_ ()1969). (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/1970_PDP-10_Ref/1970PDP10Ref_Part4.pdf) > ... In case anyone forgets, the line numbers are stored in an > interesting way -- 5 numeric characters, aligned on a word boundary, > with Bit 0 lit. $7T in FILDDT displays 1B35 as an atsign. Dig the nuance on p. 8 (p. 366) of the Jul-72 DEC-10-ULNDA-A-D, _decsystem10 LINED Line Editor for Disk Files_. SOS also had a standard for ``page marks'' - CR, CR, FF, NUL, NUL, LSB. (http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/bb-x130a-sb/01/sosug.mem.html, p. 20). The User's Guide lies; it's CR, FF, NUL, NUL, NUL - see PGMKW2: (http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/bb-x130a-sb/01/sos.mac.html) ===== On 12/28/2011 4:26 PM, William "Chops" Westfield wrote: ... > ... The tops filesystems had an interesting system for allowing text > files to include "invisible" line numbers (for use by SOS/etc.) > IIRC, if the low bit of a 36bit word was set on a text file, that > word was assumed to contain a line number (still text, I think) > rather than actual "file contents." Software that parsed the contents of files might well be taught to skip line sequence numbers as soon as it had a critical mass of users that used a line editor. However, the LSNs were right there in the file along with the rest of the text. You could always tell when a BASIC user first tried using SOS (or PIP) to resequence their program - from the unearthly howl upon discovering that their GOTO's, etc. didn't get renumbered... /AHM/HEH -- Alan Howard Martin AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com 28-Dec-2011 16:22:40-PST,1627;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:15:36 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:14:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:14:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@hsinghsing.panda.com To: "Alan H. Martin" cc: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Simple Things In-Reply-To: <4EFBAE1B.1050508@RCN.Com> Message-ID: References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <4EFBAE1B.1050508@RCN.Com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:15:25 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Alan H. Martin wrote: > Earliest SOS copyright year: 1973 SOS came from SAIL prior to being given to (and copyrighted by) DEC. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/tops-20 TOPS-20: a great improvement over its successors 28-Dec-2011 19:04:42-PST,1391;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:11:04 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:21:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:21:36 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@hsinghsing.panda.com To: TOPS-20 Hackers and Yackers Subject: more on SOS Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:10:56 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: more on SOS ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) SOS is in the SAILDART archive from its inception on November 5, 1972, with a file date of October 27, 1972. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/tops-20 TOPS-20: a great improvement over its successors 28-Dec-2011 20:05:04-PST,2548;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:59:10 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.102]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 28 Dec 2011 21:36:21 -0500 X-Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BGJ97994; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:36:20 -0500 X-Auth-ID: AMartin.MA.UltraNet X-Received: from c-24-147-18-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([24.147.18.15]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 28 Dec 2011 21:36:20 -0500 Message-ID: <4EFBD222.6050306@RCN.Com> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:36:18 -0500 From: "Alan H. Martin" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tops-20@lingling.panda.com Subject: Re: Simple Things References: <14659894925.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <4EFBAE1B.1050508@RCN.Com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) ReSent-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:58:45 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Re: Simple Things ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) On 12/28/2011 7:14 PM, Mark Crispin wrote: > On Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Alan H. Martin wrote: >> Earliest SOS copyright year: 1973 > > SOS came from SAIL prior to being given to (and copyrighted by) DEC. Oh, I'd forgotten that latter-day jargon file entry. http://www.saildart.org/prog/DOC/html/000569 (At least part of what Mark has subsequently referred to). From: https://groups.google.com/group/alt.sys.pdp10/browse_thread/thread/dbcaf8fea5930f08 /AHM/THX -- Alan Howard Martin AMartin.MA.UltraNet@RCN.Com 31-Dec-2011 13:26:39-PST,1369;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Lingling.Panda.COM ([206.124.149.115]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hsinghsing.panda.com ([206.124.149.116]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:25:08 -0800 (PST) X-Return-Path: X-Received: from TWENEX.ORG ([192.94.73.36]) by Lingling.Panda.COM with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:59:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:52:54 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Happy New Year 2012 To: bboard@TWENEX.ORG, tops-20@lingling.panda.com Message-ID: <14660838814.7.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ReSent-Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:25:02 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: TOPS-20 List Moderator ReSent-To: TOPS-20 Distribution: ; ReSent-Subject: Happy New Year 2012 ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (OSX 1167 2008-08-23) The Japan time zone has rotated into A.D. 2012! May God bless you all this year, and give you success in whatever way you define it. Here's hoping in 2012 knowledge and appreciation spreads for TOPS-20 and all the venerable systems of illustrious hacking that were the foundries of today's global IT infrastructure. -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 6-Jan-2012 16:03:13-PST,1413;000000000011 Mail-From: TELEXL created at 6-Jan-2012 16:03:13 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 16:03:13 -0800 (PST) From: Lex Landa Subject: MM, SYSTAT slow? To: papa@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14662500937.7.TELEXL@TWENEX.ORG> Hello David, Thank you for the hints regarding scripts on here - I didn't know about TAKE and PCL. Also, you mentioned the slowness of MM and SYSTAT. I have also experienced this, and most recently, a few minutes ago, when I started MAIL. With SYSTAT, it's as if the system is doing a reverse DNS lookup on the user's IP address. The other delays might be related to this, or maybe a storage problem. A few weeks ago, I had trouble with quota - something like 'space exhausted', or similar. I expect that some of this is due to my unfamiliarity (is there such a word?) with TWENEX. In spite of the slowness, it's still fun to login here and try an OS that's refreshlingly different from the UNIX (okay, 'tis actually Linux) that I regularly use. I am a bit worried that I am finding it so hard to work out how to do simple things, though - but I am getting on a bit. Maybe one day, someone will digitise that 'orange wall' of manuals. Trying to read your 'multiple programs' document, I got an error. @type PS:MULTIPRG.TXT ?Read protection violation for: MULTIPRG.TXT.33 Them old file protection bits again! Cheers, Lex. ------- 12-Jan-2012 15:42:39-PST,1842;000000000011 Mail-From: TELEXL created at 12-Jan-2012 15:42:39 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 15:42:39 -0800 (PST) From: Lex Landa Subject: Re: MM, SYSTAT slow? To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14662614080.7.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14664070058.8.TELEXL@TWENEX.ORG> Hello David, Many thanks for your helpful reply, which has a lot of hints that I'll try to pay attention to. I've decided that I need some sort of 'hint sheet' to remind me that I am using TWENEX, since I have trouble remembering all of the commands. Maybe if I devoted a few hours to TWENEX, then moved on to something else - but there are so many distractions. I'll have a look at the document links that you posted. I am currently typing this on an Amiga 1200 and it doesn't have a working web browser, but I can use Napsaterm (a VT102/Tektronix emulator) to contact one of my other computers, then use Lynx to browse. This old computer has become a central console, since it has such good terminal emulators and is the only one that emulated th application numeric keypad that many editors (EDT, TV and so on) require. When I tried to view MAGIC.TXT via http://www.twenex.org/~papa/, Lynx kept directing me back to the main SDF.org page, so I'll try to view it directly. I think that some changes have been going on with users' web space - I recall seeing a notice about it, some time back. For me, the fascination with TWENEX goes back to a time when the Internet was a strange, distant thing that only scientific and military establishments had access to. I still have a lot of old printouts from sessions to distant computers, conducted using a Tandy 102 computer in a number of musty telephone boxes. If I've mentioned this, my apologies, as my memory often returns to it. I'll look for those docs now. Cheers, Lex. ------- 25-Mar-2012 12:30:57-PST,826;000000000001 Mail-From: JSOL created at 25-Mar-2012 12:30:57 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:30:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan A. Solomon Subject: Re: MM, SYSTAT Slow? To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG cc: bboard@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14658927077.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14683171672.10.JSOL@TWENEX.ORG> SYSTAT, MM, and telnet connections are slow because they use the GTDOM% jsys which asks the monitor to find the name of sites from the host number of the host involved. GTDOM% hangs for 60 seconds, then either fails, which uses the host number or succeeds giving the host name. If the host name is available before the 60 seconds then it will succeed before then. If SYSTAT doesn't get the host name in the "Foreign host" area, it does the host number instead. Hope this helps. --jsol ------- 19-Dec-2013 12:29:59-PST,776;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:29:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (smmsp@ol.freeshell.org [192.94.73.20]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBJKmBoR016013 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:48:11 GMT Received: (from root@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id rBJKmBLF022547 for papa@TWENEX.ORG; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:48:11 GMT Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:48:11 GMT From: MINION@TWENEX.ORG Message-Id: <201312192048.rBJKmBLF022547@sdf.org> Subject: TWENEX.ORG wiki account URL: http://wiki.twenex.org USER: papa PASS: JvoLixS3G+g 22-Dec-2013 12:25:50-PST,1680;000000000011 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 22-Dec-2013 12:25:50 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:25:50 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: PDP-10 ASSEMBLY To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14850156468.13.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO, PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS, BUT I ASSOCIATE PDP-10 HARDWARE WITH ALL CAPS. I WAS A PDP-10 USER IN COLLEGE IN THE MID 1980'S. WE USED A DEC-10 WITH TOPS-10, FORTRAN, PASCAL, AND MACRO 10. I LEARNED SYSTEMS PROGRAMMING IN MACRO 10, BUT DID NOT USE IT ANY FURTHER AFTER WE SWITCHED TO A VAX. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THE ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE OF THE PDP-10 FAMILY IS ONE OF THE MOST PLEASANT TO PROGRAM IN. IT IS EXTREMELY REGULAR AND EXPLICITLY DESIGNED FOR DIRECT PROGRAMMING BY HUMANS (NOT COMPILER GENERATED CODE). I BECAME AWARE OF TWENEX.ORG A FEW YEARS AGO. IT HAS BEEN A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO RECONNECT WITH THE PAST. I HAVE WRITTEN AN INTERACTIVE DOODLE PROGRAM COMPLETELY IN MACRO HERE ON TWENEX.ORG. IT ASSUMES A VT100 OR ANSI TERMINAL. IN SHORT, MACRO IS REALLY REALLY FUN... BY THE WAY, THER ARE SEVERAL EXCELLENT BOOKS AVAILABLE ON MACRO 10. NOWADAYS THEY ARE VERY INEXPENSIVE (WHO WOULD WANT TO LEARN AN ANCIENT ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE...) SOFTWARE FOR THESE ANCIENT SYSTEMS SHOULD BE WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE ! SO WAS THE "WISDOM" OF THE ANCIENTS... THEY ALSO HAD ISSUES WITH BLOATWARE IN THOSE DAYS ! I AM ALSO A GREAT FAN OF THE PDP-8. THIS IS POSSIBLY THE SYSTEM THAT ACCOMPLISHED THE MOST WITH THE LEAST. ONE OF MY HOBBIES SINCE COLLEGE HAS BEEN WRITTING PDP-8 SIMULATORS. I NOTICED ON TWENEX.ORG THERE IS ONE, SEEMS LIKE IT CAME THROUGH DECUS... BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN WORKED ON SINCE 1969 !!! ------- 23-Dec-2013 09:47:35-PST,1302;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 23-Dec-2013 09:47:35 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:47:35 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: PDP-10 ASSEMBLY To: VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14850156468.13.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14850389803.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Dear Cedric, Thanks for your e-mail. It's great to hear from someone else with an interest in Twenex. It sounds like we belong to the same generation. I, too, had access to a PDP-10 based system in college in the mid-1980s. However, I failed to take advantage of my opportunity and its only recently within the last few years that I've become seriously interested in learning how to program these beautiful beasts. I have also found true exactly what you observe, that regardless of the variety of high level languages available here, the only way to do certain system- related tasks (and the bar for deciding what's a system task is very low in the PDP-10 world), is to program in assembly. The idea of getting into assembly language seemed daunting, but with your words of encouragement, I may take the dive after all. Are there any books that you recommend in particular for TOPS-20 assembly language beginners? Regards, -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan ------- 23-Dec-2013 19:43:55-PST,2717;000000000011 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 23-Dec-2013 19:43:55 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 19:43:55 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14850498364.11.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, YES INDEED, THE PDP-6, PDP-10, DECSYSTEM-20 WERE DESIGNED TO BE PROGRAMMED IN ASSEMBLY BY HUMANS... IN THOSE EARLY DAYS (1960'S) CORE MEMORY (MAGNETIC CORES, VISIBLE TO THE EYE WITHOUT MAGNIFICATION AND HANDMADE TOO) USED TO COST SEVERAL DOLLARS PER BYTE !!! BITS IN REGISTERS COST MUCH MORE... LOGIC IN THE FIRST PDP-10 (KA10) WAS MADE OF INDIVIDUAL TRANSISTORS... SO A PROGRAM THAT WAS RUNNING WAS USING A REAL ESTATE WORTH MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THE DURATION OF EXECUTION. PROGRAMMERS HAD TO BE VERY FRUGAL... WHEN I STARTED TO USE TWENEX.ORG, I CONSIDERED PROGRAMMING IN C, HOWEVER WHEN I SAW THE SIZE OF THE COMPILED CODE, I SAID TO MYSELF, NO, THIS IS NOT HOW THIS MACHINE WAS MEANT TO BE PROGRAMMED. IT WAS MEANT FOR ASSEMBLY... IF YOU HAVE NEVER USED ASSEMBLY, IT DOES TAKE A DIFFERENT MINDSET FROM HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGES. IT IS ALSO REQUIRES GREAT PATIENCE IN THE SENSE THAT EACH LINE DOES VERY LITTLE BY ITSELF - COMPARED TO HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGES, AND SPECIALLY TO POINT AND CLICK ENVIRONMENTS WHERE A CLICK CAN INVOKE AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF INSTRUCTIONS. NOW FOR THE REWARDS... YOU GET TOTAL CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE WITH A GIVEN PRIVILEDGE LEVEL. THE API IS TRULY UNIVERSAL. IT IS HARD TO WASTE MEMORY OR CPU CYCLES -- YOU HAVE TO WRITE MORE CODE FOR THIS... IT IS *HARD WORK* BUT IT IS SO REWARDING... AND IT WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGE PROGRAMMER BECAUSE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT IS "UNDER THE HOOD." ALSO, JUST LIKE WITH LANGUAGES, THE FIRST ONE IS THE HARDEST, THE SECOND IS A LOT EASIER. SO LEARNING A SECOND ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE IS EASIER... SO WHILE THE PDP-10 IS NOT A MAINSTREAM ARCHITECTURE BY TODAYS STANDARDS, IT IS SO MUCH MORE REGULAR AND REASONABLE THAN ANYTHING IN USE TODAY. IT IS A PLEASURE TO PROGRAM DIRECTLY. THE ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE OF TODAYS SYSTEMS IS NOT MEANT FOR HUMANS (EXCEPT A FEW COMPILER DEVELOPERS). I LEARNED MACRO FROM THE BOOK BY MICHAEL SINGER, INTRODUCTION TO DECSYSTEM-10 ASSEMBLER LANGUAGE PROGRAMMING. HOWEVER A MUCH MORE COMPREHENSIVE BOOK IS INTRODUCTION TO DECSYSTEM-20 ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE PROGRAMMING BY RALPH E. GORIN. THIS SECOND BOOKS IS BETTER BECAUSE IT IS SPECIFIC TO THE DECSYSTEM-20. I HAD TO GET USED TO 10/20 DIFFERENCES WHEN FIRST USING TWENEX. THERE ARE ALSO TONS OF REFERENCE MANUALS ONLINE. HOPE THIS IS HELPFUL. ENJOY THE MACHINE ! THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE FOR TODAY... CEDRIC WATSON MANAGUA, NICARAGUA ------- 24-Dec-2013 09:57:42-PST,809;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 24-Dec-2013 09:57:42 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 09:57:42 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE To: VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14850498364.11.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14850653790.11.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Wow! @VDIR shows that the .EXE file for a MACRO Hello World program is 1/20th the size of the .EXE for the C program! You've convinced me. I'm going to bite the bullet and learn assembly language for hacking on TWENEX.ORG. I found a copy of Gorin's book for 25 USD, so I snapped it up as a Christmas present for myself. I also notice Gorin wrote a chapter in the text document "DECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language Guide". Let the good times roll! -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan ------- 24-Dec-2013 16:16:54-PST,8018;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 16:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sverige.freeshell.org (IDENT:vulcanus@iceland.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBP0Ytg7017813 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 00:35:23 GMT Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 00:34:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Cedric Lorenzo Watson X-X-Sender: vulcanus@iceland.freeshell.org To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Subject: MINICOMPUTERS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed HELLO DAVID, SORRY FOR SENDING THIS EMAIL FROM ANOTHER SYSTEM, BUT I PREPARED IT OFFLINE AND AM NOT SURE HOW THE TOPS-20 FRONT END PROCESSOR WOULD REACT TO SO MUCH DATA BEING ENTERED SO FAST... I JUST WANTED TO MENTION IN ALL DUE FAIRNESS TO THE C COMPILER THE MAIN REASON CAUSING THE BLOATWARE EFFECT IN HELLO.C IS MOST PROBABLY THE RUNTIME CODE THAT IS ADDED IN TO THE TRANSLATED C CODE. IN THIS CASE THE MAIN CULPRIT IS PROBABLY THE PRINTF FUNCTION. PRINTF IS REALLY A MINI RUNTIME INTERPRETIVE SYSTEM. WHAT IS BEING INTERPRETED IS THE CONTROL (OR FORMATTING) STRING. NOW IN THE CASE OF HELLO.C THE CONTROL STRING IS FULLY DETERMINED BEFORE COMPILE TIME. SO ALL THIS INTERPRETIVE MACHINERY IS NOT NEEDED, BUT COMPILERS OF THIS ERA INCLUDE IT ANYWAY... I AM NOT SURE WHAT COMPILERS TODAY DO. IF YOU REWRITE HELLO.C WITH PUTS, FPUTS, OR PUTCHAR, I AM SURE THE EXECUTABLE WILL BE SMALLER. I FOUND ALL THIS OUT BACK IN THE OLD DAYS WHEN I WAS WRITTING UTILITIES TO PROVIDE FOR MISSING FUNCTIONALITY IN EARLY VERSIONS OF MS-DOS. ONE HAD TO BE FRUGAL IN THE DAYS OF 64K MEMORY AND FLOPPY DISK. EVEN MORE SO IN THE DAYS OF 2K RAM AND CASSETTE TAPE. AND EVEN MORE SO IN THE DAYS OF EARLY PROGRAMMABLE CALCULATORS... NOW I THINK THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS IS TO TO PROGRAM IN A MIX OF ASSEMBLY AND C. THIS WAY ONE CAN OBTAIN 90% OF THE EFFICIENCY OF ASSEMBLY WITH 90% OF THE PROGRAMMING EASE OF C. ANYTHING THAT TAKES TIME (DEEPLY NESTED LOOPS...) OR REQUIRES FULL ACCESS TO MACHINE FEATURES IS IN ASSEMBLY -- WRITTEN FOLLOWING C FUNCTION CALLING CONVENTIONS. FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF C THEY JUST LOOK LIKE OTHER C FUNCTIONS. THIS IS NICE BECAUSE ONE CAN INITIALLY WRITE THE WHOLE THING IN C AND THEN SELECTIVELY REPLACE C FUNCTIONS WITH THOSE WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY. WHEN COMBINED WITH A GOOD TEST SUITE, THIS CAN BE TESTED TO INSURE THAT THE ASSEMBLY ROUTINES DO THE SAME THING AS THE C FUNCTIONS THEY ARE REPLACING. THIS FOLLOWS THE MOTTO: GET IT WORKING CORRECTLY FIRST, THEN WORRY ABOUT SPEED. CODE EXECUTION PROFILERS HELP A LOT TO DETERMINE WHERE THE "HOT SPOTS" IN CODE EXECUTION ARE. AS FAR AS CODE SIZE, BEING ABLE TO LOOK (AND UNDERSTAND) THE ASSEMBLY GENERATED BY THE COMPILER WILL HELP TO DETERMINE WHICH ARE THE MEMORY "HOGS". AGAIN, UNDERSTANDING ALL THIS WILL MAKE ONE A BETTER HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGE PROGRAMMER. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH SYSTEMS TODAY IS THAT ALMOST NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THE WHOLE SYSTEM FROM BOTTOM TO TOP. THIS WAS CERTAINLY NOT TRUE FOR EARLY COMPUTERS. THEY WERE DESIGNED, BUILT, PROGRAMMED, AND USED BY THE SAME PEOPLE. THEY WERE A BRILLIANT GROUP OF MULTITALENTED PEOPLE WHO CERTAINLY UNDERSTOOD THEIR OWN CREATION... TODAY WITH THE MULTITUDE OF LIBRARIES, APPLICATION FRAMEWORKS, ETC. IT IS NO WONDER FEW PEOPLE REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW COMPUTERS REALLY WORK... I HAD THIS EXPERIENCE WITH JAVA. THE LANGUAGE IS NOT BAD AT ALL. IT RESEMBLES C SOMEWHAT. HOWEVER, ALL THOSE LIBRARIES (CLASSES) TRANSFORM IT INTO SOMETHING ELSE. AND WORSE STILL, SOMETHING THAT IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING... ... ... THAT IS ANOTHER ADVANTAGE OF MACRO-10. IT WILL NEVER CHANGE !!! IT IS LIKE LATIN. IT IS A DEAD LANGUAGE. IT CANNOT CHANGE BECAUSE ITS SPEAKERS HAVE "MOVED ON" BY THE WAY, WOULD YOU KNOW WHO I SHOULD CONTACT ON TWENEX TO MAKE MY DOODLE PROGRAM AVAILABLE TO OTHER USERS. MY TOPS-20 USER SKILLS ARE NOT VERY GOOD. WHEN I LAST USED A REAL PDP-10, IT WAS VERY MUCH A PROGRAMMING ENVIRONMENT. WE FOLLOWED A VERY DRONE-LIKE EDIT (WITH SOS), COMPILE (OR ASSEMBLE), AND RUN CYCLE. THE IDEA OF USING IT AS A COMMUNICATIONS MEDIUM, GAME MACHINE, ETC. SIMPLY DID NOT OCCUR TO ME AT THAT TIME. WE WERE HAVING SO MUCH FUN PROGRAMMING THAT WE HAD LITTLE TIME FOR ANYTHING ELSE... AH, SWEET MEMORIES OF WAITING IN LINE TO USE A HARDCOPY TERMINAL AFTER MIDNIGHT... AH, THE MUSICAL RACKET OF THE LINE PRINTER. OR OF EXCEEDING OUR DISK QUOTA ALLOCATIONS AND BEGGING THE "HIGH PRIESTS" OF THE SYSTEM (SYSTEM ADMIN) FOR A FEW BLOCKS MORE. AND BORROWING ONE OF THE PRECIOUS SYSTEM MANUALS WAS A MAJOR UNDERTAKING ACCOMPANIED BY THE MOST SOLEMN PROMISES AND IN ANY CASE HAD TO BE IN VIEW OF A HIGH PRIEST. WE WERE I MIGHT ADD HIGHLY FAVORED SINCE WE WERE ACTUALLY ALLOWED TO VIEW THE GREAT MACHINE BEHIND THICK GLASS WINDOWS WHILE THE HIGH PRIESTS (OPERATORS) CARRIED OUT THE MANY MINISTRATIONS REQUIRED TO KEEP THE BLUE GIANT APPEASED... WHERE I WAS PREVIOUSLY, WE USED MAINFRAME EQUIPMENT, PUNCHED CARDS, AND REMOTE JOB ENTRY. WE HAD NONE OF THE "LUXURIES" MENTIONED ABOVE. TURN AROUND TIMES WERE 45 MINUTES TO 4 HOURS DEPENDING ON SYSTEM LOADS. ONE MISPLACED COMMA IN FORTRAN MIGHT MEAN 4 MORE HOURS... WE LEARNED TO PRACTICE WHAT IS NOW A LOST ART: DESK CHECKING. THIS IS WHERE YOU TAKE THE PROGRAM (ON CODING FORMS OF COURSE) AND THE PROPOSED DATA SET TO YOUR DESK AND THEN PRETEND TO BE A COMPUTER AND MENTALLY EXECUTE THE PROGRAM STEP BY STEP WHILE WRITTING DOWN THE VARIABLE VALUES AND ANY OUTPUT PRINTED. IF THIS WERE STILL PRACTICED TODAY, THERE WOULD BE A LOT LESS BUGGY CODE. ANOTHER OF MY PROJECTS OF A FEW YEARS BACK WAS THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FORTRAN IV BATCH PROGRAMMING SYSTEM THAT RAN ON A LINUX VPS SERVER. THIS ALLOWED FORTRAN IV PROGRAMS CONTAINED WITHIN EMAILS SENT TO AN EMAIL ADDRESS ON THE SERVER TO BE COMPILED AND RUN. SO A USER WOULD SEND AN EMAIL WITH THEIR FORTRAN IV SOURCE PROGRAM AND WOULD RECEIVE THROUGH RETURN EMAIL A FORMATTED LISTING AND THE RESULTS OF PROGRAM EXECUTION. IT ALSO HANDLED CPU TIME LIMITS TO CATCH INFINITE LOOP PROGRAMS. I RAN THIS FOR A WHILE, THEN I SHUT THE VPS HOST DOWN... IT WAS A LOT OF FUN. THERE REALLY SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE ON INTERNET TO RUN BATCH PROGRAMS... THERE IS A FANTASTIC 360 & 370 MAINFRAME SIMULATOR NAMED HERCULES. THIS WOULD MAKE A DREAM BATCH SYSTEM. MAYBE REMOTE JOB ENTRY (RJE) COULD BE SIMULATED OVER THE INTERNET. FOR MANY OLD TIMERS IT WOULD BE A DREAM COME TRUE... AH, VIRTUAL CARD PUNCHES AND LINE PRINTERS, NON-INTERACTIVE COMPUTER USE... AND BATCH HAS ONE SUPREME VIRTUE THAT NO OTHER STYLE HAS. THEORETICALLY, A PROGRAM AND THE TOTALITY OF ITS INPUT (BOTH NEEDED IN BATCH) PREDETERMINE THE OUTPUT. THIS IS WHAT ALLOWS ONE TO USE COMPUTERS WITHOUT INTERACTION. AND BETTER STILL, IF THE PROGRAM HAS NO INPUT DATA, THEN ZERO EXECUTION TIME IS POSSIBLE (ALL WORK DONE DURING COMPILATION) WITH THE PROGRAM BEING "OPTIMIZED" INTO ONE THAT SIMPLY PRINTS THE ANSWER... AH, THE INNOCENT PLEASURES OF YOUTH, BEFORE BEING CORRUPTED BY DECADENT MULTICORE PROCESSORS WITH MULTI GIGABYTE MEMORIES AND MULTI TERABYTE RAID ARRAYS FILLED WITH DEGENERATED BLOATWARE INFECTED WITH MEGA MUTANT VIRUSES AND CONNECTED TO GIGABIT NETWORKS SWARMING WITH WIRELESS EMANATIONS ... GLAD TO KNOW YOU HAVE DECIDED TO GIVE MACRO-10 A TRY. IT IS ONE OF THE BEST IN ITS CLASS. IF YOU LIKE MACRO-10 YOU MAY LIKE THE PDP-11. IT HAS ONE OF THE MOST ELEGANT INSTRUCTION SETS, BUT 16 BIT DATA TYPES ARE A LITTLE BIT CONSTRAINING. AND THEN WE HAVE THE STARK MINIMALISM OF THE PDP-8. IT ACCOMPLISHED WONDERS WITH ONLY 8 BASIC INSTRUCTIONS. EACH WAS TRULY GREAT IN ITS OWN CATEGORY... LONG LIVE MINICOMPUTERS ... ... ... --CEDRIC 25-Dec-2013 21:07:12-PST,2437;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 25-Dec-2013 21:07:11 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 21:07:11 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: MINICOMPUTERS To: vulcanus@SDF.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14851037810.11.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Hi, Cedric. I put your theory to the test and wrote a couple of new Hello World programs using puts() and putchar(). It turns out not to make any difference in the size of the .EXE file produced here on TWENEX.ORG. Incidentally, on my Ubuntu box the puts() version of Hello World is one byte shorter than the standard printf() version, and the putchar() version is 230 bytes longer. So both KCC here and gcc on Ubuntu seem to be adding the bloat in a way that's not connected with the source code. I recently taught myself a little bit of Forth. It was interesting because it's only slightly higher-level than assembly language. It's a little tricky to wrap your mind around some of the concepts, but it was enlightening to see how you form programs that take nothing for granted and are aware of where each byte is coming from and going to. I, too, got a taste of batch transactions during one of my earliest experiences with computers during a junior high summer camp. While it is sad to see some of this fun technology pass out of use, at least we have the chance to recreate some of it on the Internet and give later generations a chance to play. About sharing your doodle program, there's several avenues you can take. First, I think you can make it so other Twenex users can run it by setting the right permissions with @SET FILE PROTECTION. (Let me know when you get it figured out so I can try it!) To advertise it among other Twenex users you can post a notice to the Twenex BBOARD (@MAIL BBOARD). For wider publicity in the SDF community, and maybe attract a few new Twenex users, post on the main SDF cluster BBOARD. Talk to SMJ if you want to move your executable file to a directory in SYS:, which would let other Twenex users run the program without specifying your home directory before the executable file name. Thanks for sharing war stories about your glory days in a DEC shop. I hope you don't mind me pumping you for information as I learn MACRO. Hope you and yours had a great Christmas. Long live minicomputers, indeed! -- David ------- 27-Dec-2013 17:22:26-PST,4232;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 27-Dec-2013 16:15:58 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:15:58 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: MINICOMPUTERS To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14851509082.6.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, IT IS REALLY INTERESTING HOW THE HELLO PROGRAM CAN BE USED AS A COMPARATIVE TOOL BETWEEN SYSTEMS AND LANGUAGES. THERE SEEMS TO BE BLOAT ADDED EVEN TO THE SMALLEST PROGRAMS BY COMPILERS. ANOTHER INTERESTING TEST WOULD BE HOW THE BLOAT FACTOR INCREASES WITH INCREASING SOURCE CODE SIZE. ANOTHER FACTOR WOULD BE LANGUAGE FEATURES USED AND SUBPROGRAMS INVOKED. I THINK IT COULD ALL BE WORKED UP INTO A LANGUAGE EFFICIENCY METRIC - I AM SURE IT HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY SOMEWHERE... THE FORTRAN AND COBOL RESULTS ARE INTERESTING. THOSE LANGUAGES WERE NATIVE TO DEC AND I AM SURE A LOT OF EFFORT WAS EXPENDED TO MAKE THEM EFFICIENT... ON THE OTHER HAND KCC MAY REPRESENT SOMETHING OPTIMIZED FOR SOME OTHER ARCHITECTURE AND QUICKLY ADAPTED TO THE PDP-10. IN OTHER WORDS A "NON-NATIVE" LANGUAGE SYSTEM. THE RESULTS OF FORTRAN AND COBOL PRODUCING THE SAME SIZE CODE IS VERY INTERESTING. IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD A COMMON CODE GENERATOR ... MY MAIN EXPERIENCE IN THIS CODE SIZE AREA WAS WITH MS-DOS, AND THERE PRINTF WAS A BIG PROBLEM REGARDING CODE SIZE... I HAVE ALSO DABBLED A TINY BIT WITH FORTH. IT IS A VERY REMARKABLE LANGUAGE. IN MANY IMPLEMENTATIONS IT IS ALSO A LANGUAGE THAT WANTS TO BE AN OPERATING SYSTEM. IT CAN RUN STANDALONE ON MINIMAL HARDWARE. IN FACT AT ONE POINT I CONSIDERED WRITTING LEARNING THE LANGUAGE IN ORDER TO GIVE MY PDP-8 SIMULATORS SOME PURPOSE. I THOUGHT OF PERHAPS IMPLEMENTING FORTH ON THE PDP-8. I THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE MOST SUITABLE LANGUAGE FOR THIS MACHINE... A GRAND PROJECT OF MINE GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS: FIRST GET THE PDP-8 SIMULATOR ON TWENEX GOING, SECOND IMPLEMENT FORTH ON THE PDP-8. THIRD WRITE A CALCULATOR APPLICATION IN FORTH TO RUN ON THE SIMULATED -8. SO THEN IT WOULD ALL HAVE A PURPOSE. WITH REGARDS TO FORTRAN AND COBOL, THEY ARE GREAT APPLICATIONS LANGUAGES FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE SPECIALTIES - FORTRAN FOR NUMERICAL CALCULATIONS, AND COBOL FOR PRODUCING LINE PRINTER REPORTS. HOWEVER, THEY ARE PAINFUL TO USE OUTSIDE THESE AREAS. A WHILE BACK I TRIED PROCESSING CHARACTER STRINGS IN FORTRAN IV. IT IS MUCH HARDER THAN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE. THERE ARE SO MANY POSSIBLE PROJECTS... THEY REQUIRE A LOT OF TIME. IT REALLY TOOK ME A WHILE TO GET BACK INTO THE MODE ( OR MOOD) OF WRITTING PDP-10 ASSEMBLY AFTER ALMOST 30 YEARS. NOW TWO YEARS HAVE PASSED SINCE I LAST WORKED ON DOODLE.MAC I LOOKED AT THE CODE, AND QUITE FRANKLY I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT 100% ANYMORE. I SUPPOSE I HAVE TO GET BACK INTO MACRO-10 MODE, OCTAL, ETC. PACKING 7 BIT ASCII STRINGS INTO 36 BIT OCTAL CONSTANTS IS NOT CONSIDERED NATURAL ANYMORE. AND VERY ANACHRONISTIC CONSIDERING THEY WERE VT100 CURSOR CONTROL ESCAPE SEQUENCES. ANYHOW, THE PROGRAM CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW TO GET A SCREEN BASED PROGRAM RUNNING ON TOPS-20. THE PDP-10 SERIES HAD FRONT END PROCESSORS THAT WERE MEANT FOR LINE BY LINE INTERACTION. THAT IS WHY EARLY SCREEN ORIENTED EDITORS WERE SEEN AS A HORRIBLE MISUSE OF RESOURCES. I CAN JUST ENVISION A SCENARIO: "YOU MEAN THAT PROGRAM WILL CAUSE AN INTERRUPT ON EVERY CHARACTER TYPED !!! THATS CRAZY. DON'T YOU REALIZE CPU TIME IS $600/HOUR. WE WILL NEVER RUN THAT KIND OF SOFTWARE HERE... ... ..." THEN CAME THE MOUSE WITH ITS FLOOD OF INTERRUPTS - BUT THAT WAS TOWARDS A CHEAP MICROPROCESSOR... SINCED I MENTIONED MICE, I JUST WANTED TO SAY I HAVE ALSO DEVELOPED SOME QUITE UNUSUAL CODE THAT USES A MOUSE IN CONJUNCTION WITH TOPS-20. NO GUI THOUGH.... THIS TAKES ADVANTAGE OF A FEATURE OF XTERM THAT ALLOWS CURSOR POSITION AT THE TIME OF A MOUSE CLICK TO BE REPORTED TO THE APPLICATION RUNNING ON THE REMOTE SYSTEM. ALL THE WORK IS DONE BY XTERM, THE CLIENT JUST GETS THE COORDINATES. THIS WOULD ALLOW SOME VERY EXOTIC TYPES OF EDITORS UNDER TOPS-20. I THINK THE SAM EDITOR UNDER PLAN 9 WORKS LIKE THIS. THIS WOULD REALLY BE ANACHRONISTIC ... BUT, ITS POSSIBLE, SO WHY NOT ? LONG LIVE MINICOMPUTERS ! -CEDRIC ------- 27-Dec-2013 20:31:30-PST,1272;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 27-Dec-2013 20:31:30 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: DOODLE PROGRAM To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14851555600.6.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, I THINK I SET THE PROTECTION CODES CORRECTLY ON DOODLE.REL AND DOODLE.MAC THEY ARE AT TOPS20: I LEFT THE PROGRAM AS A .REL FILE BECAUSE IT IS SMALLER THAN AN .EXE THE DOODLE PROGRAM STARTS OUT AT THE CENTER OF THE SCREEN. IT LEAVES A TRAIL BEHIND AS THE CURSOR IS MOVED WITH THE ARROW KEYS. BACKSPACE ALSO WORKS AND WILL BACKSTEP ONE POSITION. THE TRAIL CAN CROSS OVER AN EXISTING TRAIL. PRESS Q TO QUIT. AT THE END A SUITABLE CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE IS TYPED AND THE TERMINAL IS RESTORED BACK TO ITS TYPICAL "COOKED MODE". THE PROGRAM IS RESTARTABLE. SO AFTER BEING RETURNED BACK TO THE TOPS-20 MONITOR, YOU CAN RESTART THE PROGRAM BY SIMPLY USING THE C COMMAND... IT SEEMS LIKE A SILLY PROGRAM, BUT IT WAS QUITE A BIT OF WORK TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET AROUND THE TOPS-20 FRONT END PROCESSOR (THE "COOKED MODE" COOK !!!) AND INTO A RAW MODE ALLOWING CHARACTER BY CHARACTER INTERACTION. BY THE WAY, THE .REL FILE IS RUN WITH @EX DOODLE LONG LIVE MINICOMPUTERS ! -CEDRIC ------- 27-Dec-2013 22:46:10-PST,716;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 27-Dec-2013 22:46:10 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: DOODLE To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14851580116.8.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, I CREATED AND COPIED DOODLE.MAC AND DOODLE.REL THERE. I SET PROTECTIONS ON THE FILES AND THE DIRECTORY AS WELL TO ALLOW ACCESS... THESE SUBDIRECTORIES ON TOPS-20 AND TOPS-10 HAVE ALWAYS SEEMED A LITTLE BIT OF AN AFTERTHOUGHT IN THE DESIGN OF THE OS... WE NEVER USED THEM IN THE OLD DAYS -- WE WERE NOT GIVEN ENOUGH SPACE TO MAKE IT WORTHWHILE... JUST LIKE WITH UPPER CASE, I ASSOCIATE PDP-10 WITH ONE SINGLE DIRECTORY... --CEDRIC ------- 31-Dec-2013 17:53:14-PST,552;000000000011 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 31-Dec-2013 17:53:14 Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:53:14 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: DOODLE To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14852575367.11.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, I THINK I GOT THE PROTECTION SET RIGHT. IT REQUIRED THE USE OF THE BUILD COMMAND. I USED THE FILES-ONLY ATTRIBUTE FOR THE DIRECTORY. THESE TOPS-20 SUBDIRECTORIES ARE A REAL CONVOLUTED MESS... BUT ANYWAY, IT SEEMS TO WORK FROM MY ACCOUNT. SO THEY ARE IN DOODLE.* --CEDRIC ------- 1-Jan-2014 14:00:27-PST,656;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 1-Jan-2014 14:00:27 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 14:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: DOODLE To: VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14852575367.11.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14852795133.11.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Happy New Year, Cedric. 2014 is off to a great start. I can now run DOODLE and it is a brilliant piece of programming! It may be a simple concept, but I am amazed at how much control you've achieved over the terminal. And the source code is surprisingly short. DOODLE is additional inspiration for my study of MACRO. Many thanks. -- David ------- 1-Jan-2014 18:42:59-PST,3389;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 1-Jan-2014 18:42:59 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 18:42:59 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: DOODLE To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14852846567.11.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, GLAD TO HEAR YOU LIKED DOODLE. THE HARDEST PART WAS FIGURING OUT HOW TO CONVINCE THE TOPS-20 FRONT END PROCESSOR TO PASS RAW CHARACTERS TO THE PROGRAM AS THEY ARRIVED RATHER THAN COOK THEM UP UNTIL A CARRIAGE RETURN. THEY DID NOT TEACH THINGS LIKE THAT TO STUDENTS IN THE MID 1980'S... I HAD TO DO A LOT OF DIGGING INTO THE TOPS-20 MANUALS AVAILABLE ONLINE. I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER MY MOTIVATION FOR WRITTING THE DOODLE PROGRAM. MAYBE I WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW TO DO RAW CHARACTER MODE ON TOPS-20 IN PREPARATION FOR WRITTING A SIMPLE EDITOR. I FIRST PROTOTYPED THE IDEA UNDER LINUX AND BSD. BY THE WAY, RAW MODE IS SO VERY EASY UNDER UNIX AND LINUX. IT CAN EVEN BE DONE FROM THE SHELL... I HAVE ALWAYS HAD AN INTEREST IN THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THE HOST SYSTEM AND THE TERMINAL. THIS IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT WHEN USING EDITORS. IN THE OLD DAYS WITH 300 BAUD MODEMS, THE PROBLEM WAS SHEER LACK OF DATA CAPACITY. IN THOSE DAYS YOU COULD SEE THE CHARACTERS AS THEY WERE PLACED ON THE SCREEN. IT REALLY BOTHERED ME TO KNOW THAT DATA THAT HAD SCROLLED OFF THE SCREEN WOULD HAVE TO BE RETRANSMITTED IF IT WERE TO BE VIEWED AGAIN. UNDERSTANDABLE ON A REAL TERMINAL WITH NO EXTRA MEMORY, BUT HARD TO ACCEPT ON A TERMINAL EMULATOR FOR A PC THAT DID HAVE THE MEMORY. I THOUGHT, WHY IS THE DATA NOT SAVED... THE REAL REASON FOR THE LACK OF A SOLUTION WAS THAT THERE WAS NO STANDARD FOR THIS. WELL, I SOON MOVED UP TO A 1200 BAUD MODEM, AND EVENTUALLY TO 14.4KBPS... I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM THAT WE EXPERIENCE TODAY IS NOT DATA CAPACITY, BUT RATHER LATENCY... WE ARE BOTH A LONG, LONG WAY FROM TWENEX.ORG I THE NETWORK PACKETS CAN BRING US TONS OF DATA DOWNSTREAM, BUT EVERY KEYSTROKE OR FEW KEYSTROKES TAKES UP A PACKET (DEPENDING ON TCP PARAMETERS). IF A KEY IS HELD DOWN, A CONSTANT STREAM OF PACKETS GOES OUT AND THE ECHOS COME BACK. I HAVE TRIED HALF DUPLEX ON SDF.ORG, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO USE COOKED MODE, AND THIS PRECLUDES MOST SCREEN EDITORS. SO SOME NEW KIND OF SOFTWARE IS NEEDED TO ADAPT TO THESE MODERN CONDITIONS. OF COURSE, SPECIAL SOFTWARE COULD BE DEVELOPED ON BOTH THE CLIENT (LOCAL MACHINE) AND THE SERVER (REMOTE HOST). BUT PERHAPS SOME OTHER APPROACH IS POSSIBLE. MAINFRAMES SOLVED THE PROBLEM LONG AGO USING PAGE BY PAGE INTERACTION. IT IS IRONIC THAT THIS IS MORE SUITABLE TO INTERNET TODAY THAN THE DEC APPROACH. EVEN A ASR-33 TELETYPE ONLY TOOK 100 MS PER CHARACTER WHEN ON A LOCAL LOOP. THAT OUTPERFORMS THE FASTEST PC TODAY WHEN INTERCONTINENTAL COMMUNICATIONS ARE INVOLVED. AN IDEA THAT I HAD RECENTLY WAS INDEED PAGE BY PAGE SCROLLING WITH CURSOR POSITIONING WITHIN A PAGE DONE WITH THE MOUSE. XTERM HAS A MOUSE POSITION REPORTING FEATURE THAT COULD REPORT TO THE HOST THE COORDINATES AT THE TIME OF THE CLICK. I HAVE PROTOTYPED THIS WITH TOPS-20 AND IT SEEMS TO WORK. SO, PAGE UP, PAGE DOWN, AND MOUSE WOULD BE USED TO NAVIGATE. IT WOULD BE VERY FAST SINCE THERE WOULD BE NO STREAM OF CURSOR CONTROL KEY REPETITIONS. THE LOAD ON THE HOST WOULD BE MUCH LOWER AS WELL. IT WOULD BE A VERY STRANGE COMBINATION OF 1970'S AND 2010'S PROGRAMMING ! --CEDRIC ------- 4-Jan-2014 12:22:16-PST,1196;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 4-Jan-2014 03:56:49 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 03:56:49 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: EXE SIZES To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14853471675.6.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, THE INFORMATION YOU POSTED ABOUT THE SIZE OF .REL FILES AND .EXE FILES IN FORTRAN AND C IS VERY INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT THE LINKER IS PLACING IN THE .EXE FILES DERIVED FROM C SOURCE FILES COMPILED UNDER KCC. MAYBE SOME KIND OF PROGRAM COULD BE DEVELOPED TO "TRIM THE FAT" FROM THOSE .EXE FILES. OR MAYBE IT IS JUST A MATTER OF APPLYING THE CORRECT OPTIONS WHEN LINKING... SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING VERY WORTHWHILE INVESTIGATING SINCE C IS A VERY GOOD LANGUAGE FOR DEVELOPING BOTH SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS PROGRAMS. IT IS ALSO MUCH MORE FLEXIBLE THAN FORTRAN OR COBOL. BY THE WAY DEC LANGUAGES OFTEN HAD MANY EXTENSIONS TO MAKE PROGRAMMING MORE CONVENIENT ON DEC SYSTEMS. ALSO FORTRAN 77 IS A LOT EASIER THAN THE ORIGINAL FORTRAN IV. I CHECKED THE ANSI X3.9-1978 ON FORTRAN AND SEEMS CHARACTER DATA WAS PART OF THE STANDARD... WERE EXTENSIONS ADDED BY DEC LATER ? HAPPY NEW YEAR, --CEDRIC ------- 4-Jan-2014 12:22:16-PST,959;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 4-Jan-2014 04:59:11 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 04:59:11 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: KCC INSIGHTS To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14853483030.6.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, I LOOKED FURTHER INTO KCC. THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING FILES IN IN PARTICULAR USYS.DOC IT SEEMS KCC KEEPS A LAYER OF COMPATIBILITY AT RUNTIME WITH BSD TYPE SYSTEM CALLS SUPPORTED. THIS MAY VERY WELL BE THE BLOAT EFFECT WE ARE SEEING. IT IS JUST THAT C COMES FROM THE UNIX WORLD AND TRIES TO KEEP SOME OF THE SAME PARADIGMS IN THE TOPS-20 ENVIRONMENT. THIS REQUIRES A RUNTIME LAYER... SO IT IS NOT REALLY NATIVE TO TOPS-20. TOO BAD. WELL, IT DOES EASE THE PORTING OF SOFTWARE... BUT SOME THINGS CAN NEVER BE THE SAME -- LIKE THE 9 BIT CHARACTERS IT HAS TO USE TO EMULATE 8 BIT BYTES... INSTEAD OF PACKING 5 CHARACTERS TO A WORD -- OR WHAT IS TRULY NATIVE -- SIXBIT. --CEDRIC ------- 4-Jan-2014 18:26:38-PST,2562;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 4-Jan-2014 18:26:38 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 18:26:38 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: BLISS To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14853630022.6.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, ANOTHER LANGUAGE THAT YOU MAY WISH TO CONSIDER FOR USE ON TWENEX IS THE SYSTEMS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE CALLED BLISS. IT WAS DEVELOPED AROUND 1971. IN THE VERY OLD DAYS, HARDWARE WAS SO EXPENSIVE AND SCARCE THAT SOFTWARE WAS OFTEN AN AFTERTHOUGHT... SOFTWARE WAS OFTEN PROVIDED FREE WITH THE MACHINES... STRANGE TIMES THOSE WERE. HOWEVER, WITH DRECEASING HARDWAR COST AND INCREASING SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COSTS. THE REALIZATION CAME THAT SOFTWARE WAS BECOMING EXPENSIVE. THIS PROBABLY HAPPENED IN THE EARLY 1970'S SO AROUND THIS TIME MANY MANUFACTURERS INTRODUCED SYSTEM PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. THEY WERE OFTEN USED INTERNALLY TO DEVELOP APPLICATIONS AND THE LESS CRITICAL PARTS OF THE SYSTEM (UTILITIES, COMPILERS). BLISS WAS ONE OF THOSE SYSTEM PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. IT SEEMS IT WAS THE ONE USED AT DEC. A FEW YEARS LATER THERE AROSE THE LANGUAGE C. IT IS REALLY THE LOWEST OF THE HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGES -- AND VERY SUITABLE FOR BOTH SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS DEVELOPMENT. IT SEEMS TO HAVE SWEPT THE OTHERS AWAY -- UNLESS THEY WERE ALREADY HEAVILY USED IN AN ORGANIZATION. AS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, I THINK THAT KCC CATERS TO THE PORTING OF BSD APPLICATIONS TO TOPS-20 AND TOPS-10. A WORTHY GOAL, BUT ONE THAT REQUIRES SIMULATING THE SYSTEM CALLS OF BSD AT RUNTIME. ON THE OTHER HAND, BLISS SEEMS TO BE TOTALLY NATIVE TO THE PDP-10 ARCHITECTURE. I THINK THAT IT SHOULD PRODUCE THE BEST CODE WITH THE LEAST PROGRAMMING EFFORT. OF COURSE ONE HAS TO LEARN ANOTHER "DEAD LANGUAGE". AND KCC MIGHT NOT BE TOO BAD FOR LARGER PROGRAMS. SINCE THE COMPILER DOES PRODUCE REASONABLE CODE, AND THE SYSTEM CALLS EMULATION CODE JUST ADDS IN TO THE BASE SIZE, .EXE FILE SIZE SHOULD GROW MODERATELY WITH SOURCE CODE SIZE. ANOTHER OLD IDEA FROM THE DOS DAYS IS TO PACK MANY SMALL UTILITIES INTO ONE OR A FEW BLOCKS OF STORAGE. SINCE A PROGRAM TAKES UP A MINIMUM OF ONE BLOCK, THIS WOULD AVOID ALL THE WASTE ACROSS MULTIPLE PROGRAMS EACH IN THEIR OWN BLOCK. MAYBE A COMMAND INTERPRETER COULD BE WRITTEN SUCH THAT IF THE FUNCTIONALITY NEEDED WAS ITS OWN COMMANDS IT WOULD EXTRACT AND RUN THE COMMAND ITSELF. IF NOT IT WOULD PASS THE COMMAND LINE OVER TO THE REGULAR COMMAND PROCESSOR. BUT THIS MAY SIMPLY BE A TIME-SPACE TRADEOFF... THERE SEEM TO BE MANY ALTERNATIVES... --CEDRIC ------- 6-Jan-2014 09:50:35-PST,2416;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com ([209.85.212.170]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2014 09:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id hq4so3047846wib.5 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:52:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=NGeFkV1oVkfJbbVL7ll7hI9CcL/OWCiAVl5e25VlzS8=; b=TNdhT489RHMlUJCoiMQ4SPZ5qKMZnM18BMxmPOJj4G7aV3ftHxAE+f0wOLQppxUQkv 5ktju+6nWDhSIsZyxXoWCZhbYgphzKH2Yjz/GN11fLDhxq8OKDrK+BXkV53OexK8AssI d0BfIBuIyNmaUbFuFfdf6av3DUwyG+Y8q8xWzt9slBb3T13oH6PhkQJK/TxAmpwSA9ar 4twc6WHoY8n45OFUxPZtCgYmawMhNVRmJ7Fupbu1CiMFSfwxPjhDBK9DAaCsuO+jF77q 8dcXoBgg99A5uG86z23duXxqwqErPsQPflrdM/hzF8KPYNI2LLJxWc3wtwOSI9Od61JQ 1C/A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.189.42 with SMTP id gf10mr73032830wjc.24.1389030735597; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.217.105.71 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2014 09:52:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:52:15 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: TOPS-20 COBOL From: "Doc Trins O'Grace" To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb04bd293d7d604ef50ebb0 --047d7bb04bd293d7d604ef50ebb0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Dave... Have you made any headway on the program you were working on? It is cool that someone is actually doing something on TOPS-20 these days. --Scott -- "The venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsense of surviving mortals." --Samuel Davies (1723-1761) --047d7bb04bd293d7d604ef50ebb0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi, Dave...

Have you made any headway on the program you were working on?

It is cool that someone is actually doing something on TOPS-20 these days.

--Scott

--
"The venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsense of surviving mortals." --Samuel Davies (1723-1761)
--047d7bb04bd293d7d604ef50ebb0-- 6-Jan-2014 15:51:43-PST,1084;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 6-Jan-2014 15:51:22 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 15:51:22 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: TOPS-20 COBOL To: doctrinsograce@gmail.com cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14854126043.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Hi, Scott. Yes, I did figure out the magic to make Cobol read a text file. However, it turns out the the Cobol compiler on Twenex.org is a refugee from TOPS-10 and can only read files with names that are exactly "6.3" characters long. It turns out that at about the same time I also figured out some problems that were blocking me from implementing the same idea in Fortran. Since the Fortran compiler accepts data files with any valid TOPS-20 file name and has more flexible string handling than Cobol, I'm going to set Cobol aside for now and work in Fortran for the time being. I am really enjoying shaking a little of the dust off this classic system! Regards, David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan papa@twenex.org ------- 7-Jan-2014 06:15:10-PST,6448;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com ([209.85.212.178]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 06:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f178.google.com with SMTP id bz8so754396wib.5 for ; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 06:16:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=pXH049GPllgImUwvKNUIjAlFxqAzD+oBB7eg8vJabcw=; b=ZwNuPNvVmBZ2GC6tLBhkLvTrqu5zzirOT5rvPsXnoMO9aKgsmXopIaW8vKjGsZrYp5 OPVyLBhbg+gT0amnk8iBqPcrzBpi6RlfFR8vhxYLb4Q2RqYIAltpoNQxhSjSTodbIEur ghYSv8JkF4oNhlHsOf1zD1OC3CnVrQBe/6sJKaf4tsRs2CADhv0Y5qYLZL7U4iU255L1 wQULw/4u+0faqx1Wjx7eH6Tvl3+jh/x5ubPf5zrYmXJtYFVHjizUJUmnotBcwXRL+Wdh lP1482nDEecBuRf17PnEJt1usG23nEiwTDRliZnjRy8FLdMMIefI6wYHxqHE+tJczdaC SXxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.189.42 with SMTP id gf10mr76989799wjc.24.1389104188229; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 06:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.217.105.71 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 06:16:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14854126043.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854126043.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 08:16:28 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: TOPS-20 COBOL From: "Doc Trins O'Grace" To: David Meyer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb04bd2b20d1e04ef620524 --047d7bb04bd2b20d1e04ef620524 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you for the reply David... I used to work on the old DEC equipment of the 70's: PDP-8, PDP-11, DEC-10, DEC-20. (Let's see, RSX, RTS, RSTS, TOPS-10, and TOPS-20) I always expected a bit more command-line stuff to come out of TOPS-20 into VMS. Those were the "good old days!" When I was but a lad out of High School I wrote a cross-assembler for the Altair 8800 and I wrote it Fortran. Mostly I wrote it Fortran because I didn't know any better. The assembler ran on a CDC-6400. I deemed myself so very clever. That was in 1974. The Fortran I chose was available only on the University of Texas CDC system (in Austin), and had been heavily extended. Now I am an old man plugging away at COBOL, waiting for entropy to finally complete its work. I am much more humble with the passage of time! How did you end up on the other side of the Pacific? Sorry... although humbled, I am still curious. --Scott On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:51 PM, David Meyer wrote: > Hi, Scott. > > Yes, I did figure out the magic to make Cobol read a text file. However, it > turns out the the Cobol compiler on Twenex.org is a refugee from TOPS-10 > and > can only read files with names that are exactly "6.3" characters long. > > It turns out that at about the same time I also figured out some problems > that were blocking me from implementing the same idea in Fortran. Since the > Fortran compiler accepts data files with any valid TOPS-20 file name and > has > more flexible string handling than Cobol, I'm going to set Cobol aside for > now and work in Fortran for the time being. > > I am really enjoying shaking a little of the dust off this classic system! > > Regards, > > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > papa@twenex.org > ------- > -- "The venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsense of surviving mortals." --Samuel Davies (1723-1761) --047d7bb04bd2b20d1e04ef620524 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for the reply David...

=
I used to work on the old DEC equipment of the 70's: PDP-8, PDP-11= , DEC-10, DEC-20. (Let's see, RSX, RTS, RSTS, TOPS-10, and TOPS-20) I a= lways expected a bit more command-line stuff to come out of TOPS-20 into VM= S. Those were the "good old days!"

When I was but a lad out of High School I wrote a cross= -assembler for the Altair 8800 and I wrote it Fortran. Mostly I wrote it Fo= rtran because I didn't know any better. The assembler ran on a CDC-6400= . I deemed myself so very clever. That was in 1974. The Fortran I chose was= available only on the University of Texas CDC system (in Austin), and had = been heavily extended.

Now I am an old man plugging away at COBOL, waiting for= entropy to finally complete its work. I am much more humble with the passa= ge of time!

How did you end up on the other side o= f the Pacific? Sorry... although humbled, I am still curious.

--Scott


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:51 PM, David Meyer <PAPA@= twenex.org> wrote:
Hi, Scott.

Yes, I did figure out the magic to make Cobol read a text file. However, it=
turns out the the Cobol compiler on Twenex.org is a refugee from TOPS-10 an= d
can only read files with names that are exactly "6.3" characters = long.

It turns out that at about the same time I also figured out some problems that were blocking me from implementing the same idea in Fortran. Since the=
Fortran compiler accepts data files with any valid TOPS-20 file name and ha= s
more flexible string handling than Cobol, I'm going to set Cobol aside = for
now and work in Fortran for the time being.

I am really enjoying shaking a little of the dust off this classic system!<= br>
Regards,

David Meyer
Takarazuka, Japan
papa@twenex.org
-------



--
"The venerable dea= d are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsens= e of surviving mortals." --Samuel Davies (1723-1761) --047d7bb04bd2b20d1e04ef620524-- 7-Jan-2014 18:16:29-PST,1739;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 7-Jan-2014 18:16:29 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 18:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: PDP-10 ASSEMBLY To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14854414607.10.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> YES, SIMULATED PDP-10'S WILL BECOME FASTER AND FASTER, BUT THEY PROBABLY WILL NEVER HAVE MORE MEMORY ... YOU WILL SOON FIND OUT THAT PDP-10 PROGRAMS CAN BE READ ALOUD VERY NICELY. THE MNEMONICS FOR THE INSTRUCTIONS HAVE WONDERFUL PHONETICS. THAT IS ALSO PART OF THE LEGACY OF THE ANCIENT WORLD TO US. I WAS FORTUNATE TO HEAR SOME OF THE LAST ACTIVE SPEAKERS OF THIS CLASSICAL LANGUAGE... MODERN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGES ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR DIRECT USE BY HUMANS -- THEIR PHONETICS ARE UNPRONOUNCEABLY HARSH AND ARE BEST LEFT TO ROBOTIC COMPILERS. AND JUST THE THOUGHT OF EXECUTING PROGRAMS OUT OF DATA REGISTERS INSTEAD OF CORE MEMORY IS A POWERFUL INCENTIVE TO MAKE LOOPS VERY TIGHT. AND WHAT OTHER LANGUAGE COULD BE DOCUMENTED ON ONE SHEET OF PAPER. YES, THE WHOLE INSTRUCTION SET ON ONE PAGE. AND THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF INSTRUCTIONS, BUT THEY COME IN A MIX AND MATCH TYPE OF MENU. AND ONE AND ONLY ONE WAY TO CALCULATE ADDRESSES FOR ALL INSTRUCTIONS. THIS IS A PARAGON OF UNIFORMITY. AND INSTRUCTIONS THAT ARE TRULY USEFUL AND GENERAL PURPOSE. AND MACROS THAT IF USED CREATIVELY CAN ALMOST MIMIC STRUCTURED PROGRAMMING IN A HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGE. AH, WHAT MORE COULD ONE DESIRE IN AN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE... AND AS MANY AN ANCIENT BARD SANG -- THE GREATEST ARCHITECTURE THERE EVER WAS ... ... ... BUT THAT WORLD IS GONE FOREVER. MODERN PROGRAMMERS DO NOT USE PDP-10 ASSEMBLY. NOR ANY KIND OF ASSEMBLY. ONLY BLOATWARE GENERATORS. ALAS ... ... ... --CEDRIC ------- 7-Jan-2014 21:01:11-PST,1894;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0852o4x014427 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:02:50 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0852ojI009598; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:02:50 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:02:50 GMT Message-Id: <201401080502.s0852ojI009598@sdf.org> X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to Majordomo-Owner@SDF.ORG using -f To: papa@twenex.org From: Majordomo@SDF.ORG Subject: Majordomo results Reply-To: Majordomo@SDF.ORG -- >>>> subscribe twenex-l **** Your request to Majordomo@SDF.ORG: **** **** subscribe twenex-l papa@twenex.org **** **** must be authenticated. To accomplish this, another request must be **** sent in with an authorization key, which has been sent to: **** papa@twenex.org **** **** If the message is not received, there is generally a problem with **** the address. Before reporting this as a problem, please note the **** following: **** **** You only need to give an address to the subscribe command if you want **** to receive list mail at a different address from where you sent the **** command. Otherwise you can simply omit it. **** **** If you do give an address to the subscribe command, it must be a legal **** address. It should not consist solely of your name. The address must **** point to a machine that is reachable from the list server. **** **** If you have any questions about the policy of the list owner, please **** contact "twenex-l-approval@SDF.ORG". **** **** Thanks! **** **** Majordomo@SDF.ORG >>>> 7-Jan-2014 21:04:11-PST,1627;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:01:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0852oFp027903 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:02:50 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0852olV023075; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:02:50 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:02:50 GMT Message-Id: <201401080502.s0852olV023075@sdf.org> X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to Majordomo-Owner@SDF.ORG using -f To: papa@twenex.org From: Majordomo@SDF.ORG Subject: Confirmation for subscribe twenex-l Reply-To: Majordomo@SDF.ORG -- Someone (possibly you) has requested that your email address be added to or deleted from the mailing list "twenex-l@SDF.ORG". 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Majordomo@SDF.ORG 7-Jan-2014 22:10:43-PST,535;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 7-Jan-2014 22:10:43 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:10:43 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: PDP-10 MNEMONICS To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14854457246.10.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT YOU CAN FIND A FEW OF THE PDP-10 INSTRUCTION MNEMONICS AND THEIR "OFFICIAL" PRONOUNCIATION IN THE VERY FAMOUS JARGON FILE. A COPY CAN BE FOUND AT JARGON.TXT YES, THE PDP-10 CERTAINLY HAS A LOT OF HISTORY AND FLAVOR ... --CEDRIC ------- 8-Jan-2014 04:04:28-PST,391;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 8-Jan-2014 04:04:28 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 04:04:28 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: Confirmation for subscribe twenex-l To: Majordomo@SDF.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <201401080502.s0852olV023075@sdf.org> Message-ID: <14854521645.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> auth 688e6549ea26e139 subscribe twenex-l papa@twenex.org ------- 8-Jan-2014 04:04:50-PST,975;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 04:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08C6U8i019413 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:06:30 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08C6UQK000255; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:06:30 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:06:30 GMT Message-Id: <201401081206.s08C6UQK000255@sdf.org> X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to Majordomo-Owner@SDF.ORG using -f To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG From: Majordomo@SDF.ORG Subject: Majordomo results: Re: Confirmation for subscribe twenex-l Reply-To: Majordomo@SDF.ORG -- >>>> auth 688e6549ea26e139 subscribe twenex-l papa@twenex.org Succeeded. >>>> ------- END OF COMMANDS 8-Jan-2014 04:04:50-PST,1638;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 04:04:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08C6UEk009957 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:06:30 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08C6U06012059; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:06:30 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:06:30 GMT Message-Id: <201401081206.s08C6U06012059@sdf.org> X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.ORG using -f To: papa@twenex.org From: Majordomo@SDF.ORG Subject: Welcome to twenex-l Reply-To: Majordomo@SDF.ORG -- Welcome to the twenex-l mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe twenex-l or from another account, besides papa@twenex.org: unsubscribe twenex-l papa@twenex.org If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. Welcome to the TWENEX.ORG TOPS-20 User Group mailing list. This list is for discussing issues and developing ideas in regards to TWENEX.ORG. 8-Jan-2014 04:23:51-PST,1425;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 04:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08CNI8j003168 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:23:18 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08CNI5L016912 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:23:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s08CNHPN022907 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:23:17 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 04:20:55 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@SDF.ORG Message-ID: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site. Does this list get much non-spam traffic? Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. ------- 8-Jan-2014 05:18:44-PST,2283;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.179.188.5] (mobile-032-151-161-120.mycingular.net [32.151.161.120] (may be forged)) (authenticated (0 bits)) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08DKbUv028335 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128 bits) verified NO); Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:20:41 GMT User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----QO17LD4DYB40YCA0UR5B7UWV15E76A" Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! From: "Christopher M. Hobbs" Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 07:20:30 -0600 To: twenex-l@SDF.ORG, David Meyer Message-ID: <01f1dbe0-dbfd-437a-b3bc-e734f09d8594@email.android.com> ------QO17LD4DYB40YCA0UR5B7UWV15E76A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I haven't noticed any traffic at all, much less spam. David Meyer wrote: >I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site. > >Does this list get much non-spam traffic? > >Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. > >------- -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------QO17LD4DYB40YCA0UR5B7UWV15E76A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I haven't noticed any traffic at all, much less spam.

David Meyer <PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> wrote:
I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site.

Does this list get much non-spam traffic?

Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently.

-------

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------QO17LD4DYB40YCA0UR5B7UWV15E76A-- 8-Jan-2014 05:30:36-PST,1105;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 8-Jan-2014 05:30:16 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: TOPS-20 COBOL To: doctrinsograce@gmail.com cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14854537264.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Hi, Scott. Sounds like you had some neat experiences back in the days before the Fall. Are you waiting for entropy to complete its work Cobol or on yourself? I followed my wife to Japan for the adventure of it twenty years ago, and never got around to leaving. I've always done IT-related work, but it's not my company's main line, the managment has never been interested in anything close to the cutting-edge, and my work has gotten less and less technical over the years. I'm now a bigger hacker than I've been in my whole life with my playing around on Twenex.org with technology that was cutting-edge when I was in elementary school. Not much use, but great fun. Regards, -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan PAPA@TWENEX.ORG ------- 8-Jan-2014 05:40:46-PST,528;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 8-Jan-2014 05:40:25 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: hobbsc@ma.sdf.org cc: twenex-l@SDF.ORG, PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <01f1dbe0-dbfd-437a-b3bc-e734f09d8594@email.android.com> Message-ID: <14854539112.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Christopher M. Hobbs wrote: >I haven't noticed any traffic at all, much less spam. At least its alive. Where there's life there's hope. :) ------- 8-Jan-2014 05:43:55-PST,1529;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08DhIPQ002475 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:43:18 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08DhIqa020702 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:43:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s08DhIUr017530 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:43:18 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: hobbsc@ma.sdf.org cc: twenex-l@SDF.ORG, PAPÁ@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <01f1dbe0-dbfd-437a-b3bc-e734f09d8594@email.android.com> Message-ID: <14854539112.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Christopher M. Hobbs wrote: >I haven't noticed any traffic at all, much less spam. At least its alive. Where there's life there's hope. :) ------- 8-Jan-2014 06:32:57-PST,2830;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08EVOBH014862 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:31:25 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08EVOSu028858 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:31:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08EVODJ005528 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:31:24 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513351044FA for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:12:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.166]) by localhost (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id g4A4CcHA0PUk for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:12:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Originating-IP: [50.41.54.138] X-Previous-IP: 50.41.54.138 Received: from ECJHPENVY (50-41-54-138.athn.oh.frontiernet.net [50.41.54.138]) by relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D8A9523B3E for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:12:41 +0000 (UTC) From: "Ed Jordan" To: References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Subject: RE: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:12:42 -0500 Organization: Home Message-ID: <002501cf0c7b$b2b3c3f0$181b4bd0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac8MbIqyyfhPpwn5QnGFaSMyrQ9cwAADxmdA Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: "Ed Jordan" Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Hello back user of this stuff since 1976..., -----Original Message----- From: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG [mailto:owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] On Behalf Of David Meyer Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 7:21 AM To: twenex-l@SDF.ORG Subject: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site. Does this list get much non-spam traffic? Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. ------- 8-Jan-2014 06:42:09-PST,7936;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wg0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id x12so1501456wgg.4 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 06:42:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;   d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+01faTvNvDCqkg3zce/BWgk3mrwh+GPGzVtX08riJqo=; b=IYTNb205spp+K/VIUnQfYIFbWOqq9Oitw24HQKJwaue05lWPyMEXyfdA3zXNU09bFZ Aj6I3p8VlnIJaOfdJUP5MNiLWpFFvJ3areoLz2UNWrè4kyI1V19WqzPGdegdo6SdLH5v KFaxaiblVKOVctdQZ3XTMsuV0RxxQ8twgSUg4VTMT8vDaIbcpiPT741ga8AqfpWz2YNq mqyNI0Sg30ZxHJ/zAlsivviYQtBk6NodFNSEu7cvVFqXpk8eMA30PXjW/aWQqVZ0DKpr a7HwC84ash53UrJ54YyJ5lICTMI+X6jbMgvY10okZkhdSu50JQe+vqgl9ZjFqBPy3ETa 6Z0Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.1ž0.106.229 with SMTP id gx5mr21544823wib.55.1389192143851;  Wed, 08 Jan 2014 06:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.217.105.71 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:42:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14854537264.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854537264.10.PAPA@TWEÎEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 08:42:23 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: TOPS-20 COBOL From: "Doc Trins O'Grace" To: David Meyer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf109ea42557³04ef7680a· --047d7bf109ea42557304ef7680a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 David, that is wonderful being able to be a man of two cultures like that! I envy you the experience. COBOL outlived Admiral Hooper. I suspect that COBOL will outlive me, as well! I was an independent consultant for more than half of my career, working from one side of the US to the other. Very odd that I have seen so many failed implementations in the last couple of decades. I do not think that that has anything to do with the software languages, but rather that IT people don't seem to know how to analyze business requirements any more. I've noticed that developers can talk about Object Oriented Programming, but they cannot even begin to discuss Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. Of course, the tech stuff is generally a lot easier, in my opinion, because of the von Neumann bottleneck. The real world does not behave in a synchronous manner, but in a massively parallel one. Back in the 70's and 80's we were studiously developing methods to verify our understanding of a business system. If you got that down pat, then the tech stuff falls into place. Well, here I go, pontificating to someone 6,000 miles away. Sorry Dave! I do enjoy writing code to understand code. I use awk for that, mostly. I once worked for a fortune 100 company doing software quality control. That was interesting. So, do you get back to the States very often? I have lived in all over the US. What a difference there is between, for example, the deep South and the West Coast. I can't imagine how vastly different it would be between anywhere in the US and anywhere in Japan. --Scott On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:30 AM, David Meyer wrote: > Hi, Scott. > > Sounds like you had some neat experiences back in the days before the > Fall. Are you waiting for entropy to complete its work Cobol or on > yourself? > > I followed my wife to Japan for the adventure of it twenty years ago, > and never got around to leaving. > > I've always done IT-related work, but it's not my company's main line, > the managment has never been interested in anything close to the > cutting-edge, and my work has gotten less and less technical over the > years. > > I'm now a bigger hacker than I've been in my whole life with my > playing around on Twenex.org with technology that was cutting-edge > when I was in elementary school. Not much use, but great fun. > > Regards, > -- > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > PAPA@TWENEX.ORG > ------- > -- "The venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsense of surviving mortals." --Samuel Davies (1723-1761) --047d7bf109ea42557304ef7680a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
David, that is wonderful being able to be a man of tw= o cultures like that! I envy you the experience.

C= OBOL outlived Admiral Hooper. I suspect that COBOL will outlive me, as well= !

I was an independent consultant for more than half of m= y career, working from one side of the US to the other. Very odd that I hav= e seen so many failed implementations in the last couple of decades. I do n= ot think that that has anything to do with the software languages, but rath= er that IT people don't seem to know how to analyze business requiremen= ts any more. I've noticed that developers can talk about Object Oriente= d Programming, but they cannot even begin to discuss Generally Accepted Acc= ounting Principles. Of course, the tech stuff is generally a lot easier, in= my opinion, because of the von Neumann bottleneck. The real world does not= behave in a synchronous manner, but in a massively parallel one. Back in t= he 70's and 80's we were studiously developing methods to verify ou= r understanding of a business system. If you got that down pat, then the te= ch stuff falls into place.

Well, here I go, pontificating to someone 6,000 miles a= way. Sorry Dave!

I do enjoy writing code to unders= tand code. I use awk for that, mostly. I=A0once worked for a fortune 100 co= mpany doing software quality control. That was interesting.

So, do you get back to the States very often? I have li= ved in all=A0over the US. What a difference there is between, for example, = the deep South and the West Coast. I can't imagine how vastly different= it would be between anywhere in the US and anywhere in Japan.

--Scott




On Wed, Jan 8, 2014= at 7:30 AM, David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.org> wrote:
Hi, Scott.

Sounds like you had some neat experiences back in the days before the
Fall. Are you waiting for entropy to complete its work Cobol or on
yourself?

I followed my wife to Japan for the adventure of it twenty years ago,
and never got around to leaving.

I've always done IT-related work, but it's not my company's mai= n line,
the managment has never been interested in anything close to the
cutting-edge, and my work has gotten less and less technical over the
years.

I'm now a bigger hacker than I've been in my whole life with my
playing around on Twenex.org with technology that was cutting-edge
when I was in elementary school. Not much use, but great fun.

Regards,
--
David Meyer
Takarazuka, Japan
PAPA@TWENEX.ORG
-------



--
"The venerable dea= d are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsens= e of surviving mortals." --Samuel Davies (1723-1761)
--047d7bf109ea42557304ef7680a7-- 8-Jan-2014 07:17:47-PST,5270;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 07:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08FGukm023589 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:16:56 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08FGuFE000599 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:16:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08FGsVP014206 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:16:56 GMT Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id hq4so5653572wib.15 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 07:16:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=rVTNV1eek8ZTtmRWA3OiedwqPLRA4JcOW93q3C5u3C0=; b=Q3FIKmhEQ3E8ne81fwLG9m0sTYEGxK9ayA+RrIPgKv9k3Iu7LWeW5joFBxa2U5cPn+ onBectvvIcZ6XUS9XCGbWYaoMOSV/5pyL9Au1Ew+8Qu8BxvSE8e+AgepAlcVb9qAs+sn pl5ssAMtFL+n44fgDUSxKdrvQmiwsdK3toaMxUKu/NB0tqc6jtLG4PxTKbJd0Lr59DyB yilW86bdurjYvQtO5YsJLkuBkuPpZV3QVJrqDIuL+UEi+387ESdj99DmuilGXkQWkubU ZvQyXbXv2iMESMrK0FilbVlgJJFh5ehi0OOSkDAjbySsV2ANTBeoVRzxwFNEG8NKYNib SHDg== X-Received: by 10.180.206.41 with SMTP id ll9mr21653640wic.7.1389194211589; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 07:16:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.52.198 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 07:16:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <002501cf0c7b$b2b3c3f0$181b4bd0$@com> References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <002501cf0c7b$b2b3c3f0$181b4bd0$@com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Tsacas?= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 16:16:11 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@sdf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3888281878904ef76fba0 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Tsacas?= Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --001a11c3888281878904ef76fba0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Greetings from Paris (France). On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Ed Jordan wrote: > Hello back user of this stuff since 1976..., > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG > [mailto:owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] On Behalf Of David Meyer > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 7:21 AM > To: twenex-l@SDF.ORG > Subject: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! > > I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site. > > Does this list get much non-spam traffic? > > Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. > > ------- > > -- Stephane FreeDonne Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne. --001a11c3888281878904ef76fba0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings from Paris (France).


On= Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Ed Jordan <jordanec@frontier.com>= wrote:
Hello back =A0user of this stuff since 1976.= ..,

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-twenex-l@SDF= .LONESTAR.ORG
[mailto:owner-twenex-l@S= DF.LONESTAR.ORG] On Behalf Of David Meyer
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 7:21 AM
To: twenex-l@SDF.ORG
Subject: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l!

I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site.

Does this list get much non-spam traffic?

Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently.

-------




--
= Stephane
FreeDonn= e=A0Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne.

--001a11c3888281878904ef76fba0-- 8-Jan-2014 10:14:58-PST,3326;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 10:14:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08IEalw029084 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 18:14:36 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08IEabq018381 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 18:14:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from e9.ny.us.ibm.com (e9.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.139]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08IEZTe002488 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 18:14:36 GMT Received: from /spool/local by e9.ny.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted for from ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:04:27 -0500 Received: from d01dlp01.pok.ibm.com (9.56.250.166) by e9.ny.us.ibm.com (192.168.1.109) with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:04:24 -0500 Received: from b01cxnp22036.gho.pok.ibm.com (b01cxnp22036.gho.pok.ibm.com [9.57.198.26]) by d01dlp01.pok.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250FC38C8047 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by b01cxnp22036.gho.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id s08I4NRX2949390 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 18:04:23 GMT Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id s08I4Niq011704 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:04:23 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([9.38.177.84]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id s08I4LSk011476 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:04:22 -0500 Message-ID: <52CD9327.2090406@lectroid.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 13:04:23 -0500 From: Pat Barron User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: twenex-l@sdf.org Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> In-Reply-To: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 14010818-7182-0000-0000-000009813C6F Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Pat Barron Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org I had honestly forgotten this list was even here. ;-) But I'd love to see more traffic on it. --Pat. On 1/8/2014 7:20 AM, David Meyer wrote: > I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site. > > Does this list get much non-spam traffic? > > Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. > > ------- 8-Jan-2014 12:13:42-PST,4030;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08KCdxb029183 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:12:39 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08KCdMS012144 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:12:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-la0-f41.google.com (mail-la0-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08KCbwV003299 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:12:39 GMT Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id c6so1518906lan.14 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 12:12:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=pCRa+f9pmujXytRWB0Rk/WqORntKH5h7LWw8jxoD1kk=; b=LDISIyRUZCvuiFOghMT/9BDwDEkLMnm7EKcuSB1Ow1fiwv9X4fg62zhRBoUVlKOfk3 XfEfuo+tjxW3v1OLx7ArsgndxVjkulLdlYXBCdUCK/HwDFE4HHuRE9XJ3itiIN0engDI mD/XGrQEP9Tr8EqK3azzhZHPN5Oeepqusky+Jp9xMooadD6Rw1z1uGsS8+dUUZhWeSkU LQvFdzU9SI0VbXtEN0W9M/39m2RbmhpR6PF/T5Vfp2an0bP72AKLz5imPxCENm4sJwUp bx0P9QwZ9MtCQ91/nVIbkpwyya+0qbOlgL+FWDG691f0HsIxrgFEkTVFVpJqIJq35EV7 fVwg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.204.39 with SMTP id kv7mr6809400lac.42.1389211954359; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 12:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.191.38 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:12:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:12:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! From: Jovan Trujillo To: twenex-l@sdf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113440a60eb2a904ef7b1d0f Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Jovan Trujillo Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --001a113440a60eb2a904ef7b1d0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think my next twenex project will be to try to compile some fortran 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods book. On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer wrote: > I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site. > > Does this list get much non-spam traffic? > > Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. > > ------- > --001a113440a60eb2a904ef7b1d0f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think my next twenex project will be to try to compile s= ome fortran 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods book.


On Wed= , Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.org> wrote:=
I just discovered this mailing list on the <= a href=3D"http://twenex.org" target=3D"_blank">twenex.org web site.

Does this list get much non-spam traffic?

Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently.

-------

--001a113440a60eb2a904ef7b1d0f-- 8-Jan-2014 12:41:24-PST,8084;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08KdxvI001152 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:39:59 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08KdxJD024154 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:39:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from nm46.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm46.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.120.53]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s08Kdwow011749 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:39:58 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm46.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2014 20:25:34 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.18°] by nm46.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2014 20:22:51 -0000 Received: from [212.82.98.50] by tm15.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2014 20:22:51 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.120] by tm3.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2014 20:22:50 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1029.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2014 20:22:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 770004.67411.bm@omp1029.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 72532 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2014 20:22:50 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=13ž9212570; bh=hcIZTvbsWe2BbRwv953pCyBMOk3us7TIHeKjlAnIlUA=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ljziXP3djAOSNZ0NEeFWBJ8jbOvgL7DwpUvTPCk7tPCIeQHgIc6wsG13xiT7OcUs5ZlgZ1P+rN2ja8eQuPcIclLX7ldtbecM29j9ALmSEspYZyHMmEIz5TL6wBiVetS4DP08vz9MykafsWWhnzpEJ8p7wnfuy3HOSecDpw5iAG8= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=YUNm5zQDAhQzti9ztr0Z/RZYRrDL5P0Ufeep14N43TcndxB3+my4wGZuUoRrCnumglJg2QixmRUdCZsml0aY1CxArVuZZMLADWrt6PrEnL4+C5egm3KN3x/bNeW9DgZ4pnxUMDRU5dDB4SmUzDBE0+w1A9VlB3LtED/brrpb4BQ=; X-YMail-OSG: STKOFhwVM1lNpbhaAQ0C9EEkQoNJ7GkI9WtMxnYPbGZSWhQ PHYpSbuu3FYBqcvVGO.C_HNKQaCbXPa3eeiADx96vfqiWu2JuwneD46MZgPT .vYjYw0z97LhsBRXBedlY6AiKyDa6WpspF7QJR.tLs6C8HBGug9DhIoEDue0 KnGz.DOaLWP1kztdE.fp6fwoLP8.2g2YSL_zqblBus3rvTuUQa6RLPsKlugx QOkTpQuL2eMmB2st1RMRM9P39JMHx71d.AUrC69P9jcnJhZb_SvTfXH1Uft_ oZ53.MO4jh2_lIP3ugjAGN.8txxtoJ4_fRwkM8.8jEfP97sQmgqmvmAeCA6l bL1rMAiWlb1ttbyyGunJIkisn04KZZCtaJXD.H.SIv0Px2gcLUUnTDe_KTGx NwsoWEiWVmRQLGWoAYTYJE1HrLKmKze51wUOLoFBrCIA1jKgHvQbmMeZfaKK 8u7UrFA1Rbilf4jTToIgqzvWXqC70Vwp7Zx844j.Nsmm1V2GPQPmQXHbLwz. PJEjKuYBMkKBBOiCtLqnK812RDI6jhYyz0JWblyQnYkZVIpwkjFr3JztBDQM dcdW5ESIyRSbPgLGwVNviXW80bwCcx0LcS.9TwOq4k8zRV75p Received: from [87.115.92.53] by web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:22:50 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,R3JlZXRpbmdzIGZyb20gc3VubnkgRW5nbGFuZCHCoMKgIFNvIHNvbWUgb2YgeW91IGFyZSBzdGlsbCB3cml0aW5nIGNvZGUgZm9yIERFQyBQRFAgMTAvMjAgbWFpbmZyYW1lcyBpbiAyMTA0PyA6LSnCoCAKCgoKCgoKT24gV2VkbmVzZGF5LCA4IEphbnVhcnkgMjAxNCwgMjA6MTYsIEpvdmFuIFRydWppbGxvIDxqb3Zhbi50cnVqaWxsb0BnbWFpbC5jb20.IHdyb3RlOgogCkkgdGhpbmsgbXkgbmV4dCB0d2VuZXggcHJvamVjdCB3aWxsIGJlIHRvIHRyeSB0byBjb21waWxlIHNvbWUgZm9ydHJhbiA3NyBjb2RlIGYBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.172.614 References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:22:50 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1444729080-1211988240-1389212570=:62689" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --1444729080-1211988240-1389212570=:62689 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings from sunny England!=A0=A0 So some of you are still writing code f= or DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? :-)=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wednesd= ay, 8 January 2014, 20:16, Jovan Trujillo wrote:= =0A =0AI think my next twenex project will be to try to compile some fortra= n 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods book. =0A=0A=0A=0A= =0AOn Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer wrote:=0A= =0AI just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org web site.=0A>=0A>D= oes this list get much non-spam traffic?=0A>=0A>Exploring Twenex.org has be= en my primary recreation recently.=0A>=0A>-------=0A> --1444729080-1211988240-1389212570=:62689 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings from sunny England!   So some o= f you are still writing code for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? :-) = ;




On Wednesday, 8 Ja= nuary 2014, 20:16, Jovan Trujillo <jovan.trujillo@gmail.com> wrote:
I think my next twenex project will be to try to com= pile some fortran 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods boo= k.


On Wed= , Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.org> wrote:
=0A
I just discovere= d this mailing list on the twenex.org web site.
=0A
=0ADoes this list get much non-spam traffic?
=0A
=0AExploring Twenex.org has been my primar= y recreation recently.
=0A
=0A-------=0A



--1444729080-1211988240-1389212570=:62689-- 8-Jan-2014 14:36:58-PST,3305;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08MZWhk008286 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:35:32 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08MZW94014575 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:35:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08MZV03011709 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:35:32 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.6] (cpe-184-56-74-53.neo.res.rr.com [184.56.74.53]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MUpZk-1VtIIH39MS-00YtB1; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:22:43 -0500 Message-ID: <52CDCFAF.7060507@sdf.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:22:39 -0500 From: Jawsh McCullaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: twenex-l@sdf.org Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:eTJcMUyD1X+8VY5Iga4od6cnF9gK50vsy1R3gf414zc lBFZDmOyPRp2HvqW3cIkl/J0YyxJOFTnY2sEVGc88QUR8hRvxE tNHgqJuhy+ChWuezUdCY6xzoAFtETNTDdVaMP549aFGs3KJOkE W+33nG0BLLc3thOr2tQ1affkJqm2mzV4/PUHIcOUAtJC4Q6byj ABQGns5LlwBDEWbFYoW2Awy8nTk2oXIpNOWEQIdSYJAJtIxCKc RcnBBhHz6oKVs2Go66kX2A0PwIwEzNC+bsORxblJijpnqQRdRV 5C0fPxfbxeShk1iqZyG1i2wLSu0+dwG33RXg1ne/8H5nRha/aZ mrzk1JFNyveeHFz0vOMU= Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Jawsh McCullaugh Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org I haven't seen any spam traffic, and I sadly haven't seen much traffic on this list at all. Not like I contribute much, so I shouldn't complain. On Wed 08 Jan 2014 03:22:50 PM EST, michael osullivan wrote: > Greetings from sunny England! So some of you are still writing code > for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? :-) > > > > > On Wednesday, 8 January 2014, 20:16, Jovan Trujillo > wrote: > I think my next twenex project will be to try to compile some fortran > 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods book. > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer > wrote: > > I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org > web site. > > Does this list get much non-spam traffic? > > Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. > > ------- > > > > 8-Jan-2014 14:51:19-PST,2878;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08MlswD000986 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:47:54 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08MlrOu011854 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:47:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from wm.sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08MlqMn008679; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:47:52 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:47:52 -0500 From: gilbertmm To: twenex-l@sdf.org Cc: owner-twenex-l@sdf.lonestar.org, Jawsh McCullaugh Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! In-Reply-To: <52CDCFAF.7060507@sdf.org> References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <52CDCFAF.7060507@sdf.org> Message-ID: <595e77f9acb061b7604c57d160c52387@SDF.ORG> X-Sender: gilbertmm@SDF.ORG User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.2 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: gilbertmm Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org On 2014-01-08 17:22, Jawsh McCullaugh wrote: > I haven't seen any spam traffic, and I sadly haven't seen much traffic > on this list at all. Not like I contribute much, so I shouldn't > complain. > > On Wed 08 Jan 2014 03:22:50 PM EST, michael osullivan wrote: >> Greetings from sunny England! So some of you are still writing code >> for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? :-) >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, 8 January 2014, 20:16, Jovan Trujillo >> wrote: >> I think my next twenex project will be to try to compile some fortran >> 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods book. >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer > > wrote: >> >> I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org >> web site. >> >> Does this list get much non-spam traffic? >> >> Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. >> >> ------- >> >> >> >> Hail, gents. It's good to see some life on this list. --- gilbertmm@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org 8-Jan-2014 15:34:30-PST,3672;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08NXfp6021767 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 23:33:41 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s08NXfOm007329 for twenex-l-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 23:33:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from shared04.prioserve.nl (shared04.prioserve.nl [91.216.113.39]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08NXeaa013559 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 23:33:41 GMT Received: from cust.14.68.adsl.cistron.nl ([62.216.14.68] helo=Swbp03) by shared04.prioserve.nl with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1W12CW-00055g-NO for twenex-l@sdf.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 00:06:16 +0100 From: "R. Voorhorst" To: References: <14854524641.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <52CDCFAF.7060507@sdf.org> In-Reply-To: <52CDCFAF.7060507@sdf.org> Subject: RE: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 00:06:16 +0100 Message-ID: <00e801cf0cc6$3c0b86c0$b4229440$@swabhawat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJAORvyQZqakyF1y5+MiUM9Xta79QH1bJENAecJTGQB1SeQcplrjElw Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus-Scanner: Scanned for Viruses and other Malware Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sdf.lonestar.org id s08NXfaZ010351 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: "R. Voorhorst" Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Real diehards have those targets set to 4102 :) Decsystem-10/20's running faster than ever they did even here in the Netherlands with Pdp's, Vaxes, Alpha's and Decnet/Lat all around in a (Decnet/Lat/Tcpip) network. Best regards -----Original Message----- From: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG [mailto:owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] On Behalf Of Jawsh McCullaugh Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 23:23 To: twenex-l@sdf.org Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! I haven't seen any spam traffic, and I sadly haven't seen much traffic on this list at all. Not like I contribute much, so I shouldn't complain. On Wed 08 Jan 2014 03:22:50 PM EST, michael osullivan wrote: > Greetings from sunny England! So some of you are still writing code > for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? :-) > > > > > On Wednesday, 8 January 2014, 20:16, Jovan Trujillo > wrote: > I think my next twenex project will be to try to compile some fortran > 77 code from a chemical engineering numerical methods book. > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, David Meyer > wrote: > > I just discovered this mailing list on the twenex.org > web site. > > Does this list get much non-spam traffic? > > Exploring Twenex.org has been my primary recreation recently. > > ------- > > > > 8-Jan-2014 21:27:46-PST,4355;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s095MtNr010427 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:22:55 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s095MtKl017233 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:22:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com (mail-la0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s095Mr6j025253 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:22:55 GMT Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id e16so1848930lan.17   for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 21:22:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=LFwXhW8qMhIX6DYban4hkeF+xSbrS15Neq5HRmjd/QQ=; b=rjOpanhD7WkI9udTmlIKgQ7Cd2bWEJRZMDmxMioUuwbU2MzUps89D6V7U6mzuxd3Xk dAvOJGNNbjCBPo7IuavkUvEAR49vr5BrpKPt9JIgFNLn7hbN04ANn1tIxwxIIGf0q/di q5hIS0dHBpIsh+FxToUixPtrJ5c/hI8BprYvVY7TehkhNLXiz1oRNezjMvk4xX8Ujkmz 0vYbyCyFKpM1kuPz81ybWmpp8ZWy6O/IhTM0UttfOYYArku2QfFBh9pgaY8wqJvY5sX3 bQBt+pTY20bLD1lsrFmUXkGSHKYCCìwk7fjRCQvKd1h0NEHvq5Xjt1nq2HOXzrYxu0ji 8q9Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.29.130 with SMTP id k2mr77216lah.84.1389244970255; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 21:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.191.38 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:22:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 22:22:50 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? From: Jovan Trujillo To: twenex-l@sdf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158c488f54ad904ef82cc3a Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Jovan Trujillo Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --089e0158c488f54ad904ef82cc3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 So I tried a simple integer read and print program on twenex using the fortran compiler. I did this: *FORTRAN>COMPILE BIRTH.FOR/F77 *LINK *BIRTH/SAVE/MAP=BIRTH/GO then I run it: *BIRTH ?READ NUL: at BIRTH+10 in BIRTH (PC 215) ?End of file etc...etc... Here is the code: PROGRAM BIRTH INTEGER DAY, MONTH, YEAR PRINT*, 'ENTER MONTH' READ*, MONTH PRINT*, 'ENTER DAY' READ*, DAY PRINT*, 'ENTER YEAR' READ*, YEAR PRINT*, 'YOUR BIRTHDAY IS', MONTH, '-', DAY, '-', YEAR END Thanks for the help! --089e0158c488f54ad904ef82cc3a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So I tried a = simple integer read and print program on twenex using the fortran compiler.= I did this:

*FORTRAN>COMPILE BIRTH.FOR/F77
*LINK<= br>
=A0*BIRTH/SAVE/MAP=3DBIRTH/GO
then I run it:
*= BIRTH
?READ NUL: at BIRTH+10 in BIRTH (PC 215)
?End of fi= le

etc...etc...

Here is the code:

= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 PROGRAM BIRTH

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 INTEGER DAY, MONTH, YEAR
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 PRINT= *, 'ENTER MONTH'
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 READ*, MONTH
=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 PRINT*, 'ENTER DAY'
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 READ*, DAY
=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 PRINT*, 'ENTER YEAR'
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 READ*, Y= EAR
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 PRINT*, 'YOUR BIRTHDAY IS', MONTH, '-', = DAY, '-', YEAR
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 END

Thanks for the help!


--089e0158c488f54ad904ef82cc3a-- 9-Jan-2014 05:49:56-PST,593;000000000001 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: The Mailer Daemon To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Subject: Message of 8-Jan-2014 05:40:25 Message undelivered after 1 day -- will try for another 2 days: hobbsc@ma.sdf.org: Cannot connect to host ------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: hobbsc@ma.sdf.org cc: twenex-l@SDF.ORG, PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <01f1dbe0-dbfd-437a-b3bc-e734f09d8594@email.android.com> Message-ID: <14854539112.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ------- 9-Jan-2014 06:46:41-PST,698;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 9-Jan-2014 06:46:41 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14854813320.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> michael osullivan wrote: > Greetings from sunny England! So some of you are still writing code > for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? Not just writing code. I just bought a copy of "Introduction to DECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language Programming"! Teaching a dead horse new tricks, but is the horse the PDP-10, or myself? ;) ------- 9-Jan-2014 06:51:48-PST,1699;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09Enuh1020150 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:49:56 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09Enui5008465 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:49:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s09EnusD022932 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:49:56 GMT Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14854813320.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org michael osullivan wrote: > Greetings from sunny England! So some of you are still writing code > for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104? Not just writing code. I just bought a copy of "Introduction to DECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language Programming"! Teaching a dead horse new tricks, but is the horse the PDP-10, or myself? ;) ------- 9-Jan-2014 07:20:58-PST,1221;000000000011 Mail-From: PAPA created at 9-Jan-2014 07:20:38 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Hi, Jovan. I am just relearning FORTRAN myself (and having a blast!), but I think your problem is not with compilation, but with your program syntax. Your PRINT and READ statements all use the default logical unit, which meant PRINT is trying to send data to the system line printer and READ is trying to get input from the card reader, neither of which exist on TWENEX.ORG. (Though there is a chance the line printer and card reader are attached to the system console terminal, I'm guessing the system administrator (SMJ) is the only one who can see it.) I have gotten FORTRAN programs sending and receiving data from the user teletype device, which is logical unit 5. Replace "PRINT*," with "WRITE(5,*)" and "READ*," with "READ(5,*)" and your program will work. Regards, -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan PAPA@TWENEX.ORG ------- 9-Jan-2014 09:49:46-PST,2222;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09HnNPh023881 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:49:23 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09HnNnQ014409 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:49:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s09HnNTg003653 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:49:23 GMT Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Hi, Jovan. I am just relearning FORTRAN myself (and having a blast!), but I think your problem is not with compilation, but with your program syntax. Your PRINT and READ statements all use the default logical unit, which meant PRINT is trying to send data to the system line printer and READ is trying to get input from the card reader, neither of which exist on TWENEX.ORG. (Though there is a chance the line printer and card reader are attached to the system console terminal, I'm guessing the system administrator (SMJ) is the only one who can see it.) I have gotten FORTRAN programs sending and receiving data from the user teletype device, which is logical unit 5. Replace "PRINT*," with "WRITE(5,*)" and "READ*," with "READ(5,*)" and your program will work. Regards, -- David Meyer Takarazuka, Japan PAPA@TWENEX.ORG ------- 9-Jan-2014 10:41:43-PST,1923;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09IfprP027952 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:41:51 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09Ifpn7007850 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:41:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sdf.org (smj@ol.freeshell.org [192.94.73.20]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09Ifovw001563 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:41:50 GMT Received: (from smj@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09Ifod100µ887 for twenex-l@sdf.org; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:41:50 GMT Message-Id: <201401091841.s09Ifod1005887@sdf.org> Subject: [twenex-l] reminder - weekly COM MODE chat To: twenex-l@sdf.org Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:41:50 +0000 (UTC) From: "Stephen M. Jones" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL93 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: "Stephen M. Jones" Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Since the list is seeing some activity, I thought I'd post a reminder that we will have our weekly chat on Saturday which a couple of users have been dedicated in holding. Full information on when and how is available via the TWENEX wiki: http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:commode 9-Jan-2014 11:22:53-PST,5495;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09JMNUg027446 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 19:22:23 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09JMNqY009996 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 19:22:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-lb0-f170.google.com (mail-lb0-f170.google.com [209.85.217.170]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09JMLs4010474 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 19:22:22 GMT Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id c11so2670158lbj.29 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:22:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+R5/GDD1w9XjB0YfngQMlkCs73AaF8R+NwZAr7+sL38=; b=jnuz0GskgFXC1gV/OBZHhQyMpubjqjufQSnehUBDJRq28psb0f2Fj3N7uPq5Zy9kU/ VSz+R7Xt9gSMz9U+2qCen+byF8aYOEWSVoJwa2FvKk5LeGpkxv0PK3Xts5s3OExoAlGg BFVAuYq4LvneuB7Zt42JErhFXeNfohmVwAZrzKW8FJbfjheaXsP41YpJV+SpHPq75SCk CcX0FsHzaxkZ58jmKp+XGnbZ07MyhKsk1IQOJFCihi6cSTh6CI1AkwpNSVcdoGqSBfpG uJfT/pbsR6p/ndEL+goY2orYnRz9++7fCT+PKihF5OzQbf8rJEhbC2mpj7x474Mx31Tf NnNA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.28.230 with SMTP id e6mr2040176lah.3.1389295337409; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.191.38 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:22:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:22:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? From: Jovan Trujillo To: twenex-l@sdf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b79a1312d404ef8e8793 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Jovan Trujillo Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --089e0160b79a1312d404ef8e8793 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yay! It works now. :-) Thanks David - Jovan On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 8:20 AM, David Meyer wrote: > Hi, Jovan. > > I am just relearning FORTRAN myself (and having a blast!), but I think > your problem is not with compilation, but with your program syntax. > > Your PRINT and READ statements all use the default logical unit, which > meant PRINT is trying to send data to the system line printer and READ > is trying to get input from the card reader, neither of which exist on > TWENEX.ORG. (Though there is a chance the line printer and card reader > are attached to the system console terminal, I'm guessing the system > administrator (SMJ) is the only one who can see it.) > > I have gotten FORTRAN programs sending and receiving data from the > user teletype device, which is logical unit 5. Replace "PRINT*," with > "WRITE(5,*)" and "READ*," with "READ(5,*)" and your program will work. > > Regards, > > -- > David Meyer > Takarazuka, Japan > PAPA@TWENEX.ORG > ------- > --089e0160b79a1312d404ef8e8793 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yay! It works now. :-) Thanks David

- Jo= van


= On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 8:20 AM, David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.org> wrote:
Hi, Jovan.

I am just relearning FORTRAN myself (and having a blast!), but I think
your problem is not with compilation, but with your program syntax.

Your PRINT and READ statements all use the default logical unit, which
meant PRINT is trying to send data to the system line printer and READ
is trying to get input from the card reader, neither of which exist on
TWENEX.ORG. (Though the= re is a chance the line printer and card reader
are attached to the system console terminal, I'm guessing the system administrator (SMJ) is the only one who can see it.)

I have gotten FORTRAN programs sending and receiving data from the
user teletype device, which is logical unit 5. Replace "PRINT*," = with
"WRITE(5,*)" and "READ*," with "READ(5,*)" an= d your program will work.

Regards,

--
David Meyer
Takarazuka, Japan
PAPA@TWENEX.ORG
-------

--089e0160b79a1312d404ef8e8793-- 9-Jan-2014 11:42:21-PST,733;000000000011 Mail-From: JOVAN created at 9-Jan-2014 11:42:20 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:42:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jovan Trujillo Subject: Do you have any info about APL-20? To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG cc: JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14854867141.14.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> Hi David, How's the fortran hacking going? Thanks for your help. I'm now able to get started on porting an old numerical library from the book Numerical Methods for Chemical Engineers to TOPS-20 through your help. I was wondering if you knew anything about APL-20. Specifically does Twenex have APL-20? Do you need a special keyboard for it? I couldn't find any info on google or the bitsavers werbsite in particular. Have a great day, Jovan ------- 9-Jan-2014 12:08:01-PST,975;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 9-Jan-2014 12:08:01 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:08:01 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: Do you have any info about APL-20? To: JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14854867141.14.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14854871816.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> I am having a great time relearning FORTRAN. I'm impressed how simple and straight-forward it is once you get over a few humps like the logical I/O units, while still being plenty flexible and powerful for my puposes. I'm nearly done with a blog generator program. No number crunching, but a nice challenge. I'll announce when it's done on the mailing list in just a few days. TWENEX.ORG does have APL-20. The executable is @APLSF. I've been curious about it myself. There are ASCII substitutions for terminals without APL keyboards. There's even a manual on Bitsavers. Good luck with the numerical library. Regards, David ------- 9-Jan-2014 12:15:05-PST,730;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 9-Jan-2014 12:15:05 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:15:05 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: What file compression options do we have on Twenex? To: JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: bboard@TWENEX.ORG, PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14854869335.14.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14854873102.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> I have not found any compression/decompression software on TWENEX.ORG, though it would be very useful to have. By the way, I recommend kermit for transferring files in number between TWENEX.ORG and other systems. Kermit is a little tricky to learn, but I've found it much more reliable than ftp when transfering more than one or two files at the same time. ------- 9-Jan-2014 12:17:48-PST,2026;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09K2xLX013488 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 20:02:59 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09K2x3s006758 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 20:02:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18I781AFT6NYHFDvYHXEM7u9A3dPR3uyFc@ma.sdf.org [192.94.73.31]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09K2w3U003467 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 20:02:59 GMT Received: (from smj@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.4/8.12.8/Submit) id s09K2vfr019600 for twenex-l@sdf.org; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 20:02:57 GMT From: Stephen Jones Message-Id: <201401092002.s09K2vfr019600@sdf.org> Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? In-Reply-To: References: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: twenex-l@sdf.org Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 20:02:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: ELM [version ME+ 2.5 PLalpha28] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Stephen Jones Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org > Yay! It works now. :-) Thanks David Be sure to document this in the wiki. 9-Jan-2014 14:21:22-PST,2192;000000000001 Return-Path: <365000@gmail.com> Received: from mail-qc0-f170.google.com ([209.85.216.170]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id e9so3085412qcy.29 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=G2RvBBTjmbz3hyXJchnNF1EzACDSVqoKDq74XkIXmuQ=; b=Xa+CF1r4lG7ha8rJHjTwC8dm9zg6rhLby+29Ipg1K+0b3kofcTHjuXMEy7Gi/fwOXh vmYszjBmmymPSOdhc4osuAby7QrTPYR48tY4iDMNltiRUzVT9iyPUzTc6jILLF/JyZtZ AXKcAq7EcBqFaykpLNgVlQsjD6jms15PoKhmdy4SpIji7Ts5qADwUxyDBh94tLiAXSWu aeuU61ijLMmNmB9w65nCZ9dIrqHxrBaTpKSmy1VUMgQOZL/wwilGtGPt55tXBr7sLAlV Fg00+TSqulXw0qervW9F4x1HCgL9vhF1kD57ci9T3pXQ+fV8zyPMyoLtYm0i5xFLzBxq mxZg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.27.234 with SMTP id w10mr172545qeg.22.1389306192540; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) Sender: 365000@gmail.com Received: by 10.96.228.65 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 23:23:12 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Wh__kNzt0t4nZUl1vP-_7el2nbU Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? From: Klaus Zeuge To: twenex-l@sdf.org Cc: PAPA@twenex.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2014/1/9 David Meyer > I am just relearning FORTRAN myself (and having a blast!), but I think > your problem is not with compilation, but with your program syntax. On a side note, it's fun reading http://www.the-adam.com/adam/rantrave/st02.pdf which is a manifest on good programming practices, using (mostly) FORTRAN as examples. It isn't precisely PDP 10, but it's in roughly the right era. Klaus -- http://twitter.com/sojge 9-Jan-2014 14:23:40-PST,3144;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09MNHTi007127 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 22:23:17 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s09MNHdH011250 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 22:23:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-qe0-f47.google.com (mail-qe0-f47.google.com [209.85.128.47]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s09MNFZF012177 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 22:23:16 GMT Received: by mail-qe0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 5so3645367qeb.20 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=G2RvBBTjmbz3hyXJchnNF1EzACDSVqoKDq74XkIXmuQ=; b=Xa+CF1r4lG7ha8rJHjTwC8dm9zg6rhLby+29Ipg1K+0b3kofcTHjuXMEy7Gi/fwOXh vmYszjBmmymPSOdhc4osuAby7QrTPYR48tY4iDMNltiRUzVT9iyPUzTc6jILLF/JyZtZ AXKcAq7EcBqFaykpLNgVlQsjD6jms15PoKhmdy4SpIji7Ts5qADwUxyDBh94tLiAXSWu aeuU61ijLMmNmB9w65nCZ9dIrqHxrBaTpKSmy1VUMgQOZL/wwilGtGPt55tXBr7sLAlV Fg00+TSqulXw0qervW9F4x1HCgL9vhF1kD57ci9T3pXQ+fV8zyPMyoLtYm0i5xFLzBxq mxZg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.27.234 with SMTP id w10mr172545qeg.22.1389306192540; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.228.65 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 23:23:12 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Wh__kNzt0t4nZUl1vP-_7el2nbU Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? From: Klaus Zeuge To: twenex-l@sdf.org Cc: PAPA@twenex.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Klaus Zeuge Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org 2014/1/9 David Meyer > I am just relearning FORTRAN myself (and having a blast!), but I think > your problem is not with compilation, but with your program syntax. On a side note, it's fun reading http://www.the-adam.com/adam/rantrave/st02.pdf which is a manifest on good programming practices, using (mostly) FORTRAN as examples. It isn't precisely PDP 10, but it's in roughly the right era. Klaus -- http://twitter.com/sojge 9-Jan-2014 22:06:00-PST,469;000000000001 Mail-From: JOVAN created at 9-Jan-2014 22:06:00 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 22:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jovan Trujillo Subject: Re: Do you have any info about APL-20? To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14854871816.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14854980675.16.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> Thanks for your help David. APLSF was the magic keyword I needed to find the right documentation. Looking forward to test out your creation! - Jovan ------- 10-Jan-2014 05:52:29-PST,375;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 10-Jan-2014 05:52:29 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:52:29 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14855065597.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> ------- 10-Jan-2014 05:55:21-PST,1380;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0ADsstN015730 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:54:54 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0ADssZi028341 for twenex-l-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:54:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s0ADssEu022625 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:54:54 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:52:29 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14855065597.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org ------- 10-Jan-2014 06:05:35-PST,959;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 10-Jan-2014 06:05:35 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 06:05:35 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org, PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14855067982.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> (Apologies to the list for the previous empty-message spam.) > I have gotten FORTRAN programs sending and receiving data from the > user teletype device, which is logical unit 5. Replace "PRINT*," with > "WRITE(5,*)" and "READ*," with "READ(5,*)" and your program will work. I was poking through the FORTRAN and found another way to do what you want. In addition to using "READ(5,*)" and "WRITE(5,*)" specifying your terminal logical device, you can also use "ACCEPT*" and "TYPE*" which always read from and write to the user teletype device. It saves typing a few characters. -- David Meyer PAPA@TWENEX.ORG ------- 10-Jan-2014 06:08:18-PST,1964;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 06:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0AE7vjv027761 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:07:57 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0AE7vKU005054 for twenex-l-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:07:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s0AE7vgd028159 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:07:57 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 06:05:35 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org, PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14854819499.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14855067982.15.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org (Apologies to the list for the previous empty-message spam.) > I have gotten FORTRAN programs sending and receiving data from the > user teletype device, which is logical unit 5. Replace "PRINT*," with > "WRITE(5,*)" and "READ*," with "READ(5,*)" and your program will work. I was poking through the FORTRAN and found another way to do what you want. In addition to using "READ(5,*)" and "WRITE(5,*)" specifying your terminal logical device, you can also use "ACCEPT*" and "TYPE*" which always read from and write to the user teletype device. It saves typing a few characters. -- David Meyer PAPA@TWENEX.ORG ------- 10-Jan-2014 10:18:27-PST,511;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 10-Jan-2014 10:18:26 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <201401092002.s09K2vfr019600@sdf.org> Message-ID: <14855114013.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Stephen Jones wrote: > Be sure to document this in the wiki. So it shall be written, so it shall be done. http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:fortran ------- 10-Jan-2014 10:23:07-PST,1516;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0AILSg4002785 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:21:28 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0AILSYQ001360 for twenex-l-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:21:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s0AILAp7006594 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:21:28 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: ÐAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <201401092002.s09K2vfr019600@sdf.org> Message-ID: <14855114013.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Stephen Jones wrote: > Be sure to document this in the wiki. So it shall be written, so it shall be done. http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:fortran ------- 10-Jan-2014 11:29:41-PST,4059;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0AJTREl003896 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:29:27 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0AJTRh2029605 for twenex-l-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:29:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-lb0-f175.google.com (mail-lb0-f175.google.com [209.85.217.175]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0AJTPYh018351 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:29:26 GMT Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id w6so3708496lbh.34 Š for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:29:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Dsiya7/Rzh/2EPTLJJGbmetf4Sl8BF8Ug/+wgvgdTRM=; b=o0amttTHifAKZnu8meW7TeyS9iW3eAAh3zAM/7vyPhCfSyu3dEeCXOS0zwBSZuSkm2 NVLd0uU8qJTCvI3K3jHPDL+qqJHWSTMiBbN7Q+Y5oLlQ/Bl+IGsJKC9pzNYxsDrVlTiI jk/rYXgfz2TQ870UaaR29deGGeqX8zJAZYomC+fgXIkX/f3ddIfZO+i1ICuea8EYwTOR uXt4h0Vw2WcA4r3ML09CL88Zs+0xB988G4q/ZFiFKR8RELLOl4mbisaM82uh4Y7zI/pÆ X2RFKko4nzLujS3MoqTXrimQVzykZ77t8SbTnkndGeOH6uW68pqIspLI/gPCK27BvI3K dx0Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.28.230 with SMTP id e6mr4522577lah.3.1389382161484; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.191.38 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:29:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14855114013.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <201401092002.s09K2vfr019600@sdf.org> <14855114013.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:29:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? From: Jovan Trujillo To: twenex-l@sdf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b79a314f7c04efa2bedf Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Jovan Trujillo Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --089e0160b79a314f7c04efa2bedf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Very nice Dave! I will do something similar for APL when I get a chance. On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:18 AM, David Meyer wrote: > Stephen Jones wrote: > > Be sure to document this in the wiki. > > So it shall be written, so it shall be done. > > http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:fortran > ------- > --089e0160b79a314f7c04efa2bedf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very nice Dave! I will do something similar for APL when I= get a chance.


On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:18 AM, David Meyer = <PAPA@twenex.org> wrote:
Stephen Jones <smj@sdf.org> wrote:
> Be sure to document this in the wiki.

So it shall be written, so it shall be done.

http= ://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:fortran
-------

--089e0160b79a314f7c04efa2bedf-- 10-Jan-2014 11:49:01-PST,2060;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0AJmjBT002384 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:48:45 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0AJmjWj024584 for twenex-l-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:48:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18JaG0D4uvhM/3+A5+LmcQ1GbqxzpEBbr0@ma.sdf.org [192.94.73.31]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0AJmjPB001246 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:48:45 GMT Received: (from smj@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.4/8.12.8/Submit) id s0AJmgnr009261 for twenex-l@sdf.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:48:42 GMT From: Stephen Jones Message-Id: <201401101948.s0AJmgnr009261@sdf.org> Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? In-Reply-To: References: <201401092002.s09K2vfr019600@sdf.org> <14855114013.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> To: twenex-l@sdf.org Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:48:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: ELM [version ME+ 2.5 PLalpha28] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Stephen Jones Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org > Very nice Dave! I will do something similar for APL when I get a chance. Perfect, SLT just volunteered to write up a tutorial on MIDAS. 10-Jan-2014 13:57:20-PST,5737;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0ALtfCC003080 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:55:41 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0ALtfV0025474 for twenex-l-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:55:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-wi0-f177.google.com (mail-wi0-f177.google.com [209.85.212.177]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0ALtYJk000368 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:55:40 GMT Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id hm2so169195wib.16 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:55:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=3IXAajk7D4a3a0G6gWLLsPSpQ/pELJ3pITctl6Jekv8=; b=0+NIthHTnW9XO+/gt/ySZjPEqFqjIdeSFwBRO1Zqtg4kkqHSqP5GcRK+eWxMx4xdn3 mo6KHlc1xs9GGTPfhH00I5F9SLHzuGiinEol/ORErpU7nRPJCjmFK0hY2oHL8vlX8whL gWc+jtWpAheU4hmVm2IxtR6X+VWgjFFUivkOVr09EwFtiES3Tw7vUMowc4jRwopf3dls XH2NzVWcvYlZnFzZbRZ11+yHxo9GY0Kn3q68knwompBgY8+Ywbbipfht3wgsLnRTwErO 7/S4vmncRBEK026IxgIvzIk7CwSQSbyDKmZcNoZpPHwJzNHp6BLzban1Gr5ALys86/41 x+gQ== X-Received: by 10.180.11.34 with SMTP id n2mr4777511wib.40.1389390927701; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:55:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.52.198 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:54:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201401101948.s0AJmgnr009261@sdf.org> References: <201401092002.s09K2vfr019600@sdf.org> <14855114013.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <201401101948.s0AJmgnr009261@sdf.org> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Tsacas?= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:54:47 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c25c1ab330cc04efa4c806 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Tsacas?= Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --001a11c25c1ab330cc04efa4c806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Stephen Jones wrote: > > Very nice Dave! I will do something similar for APL when I get a chance= . > > Perfect, SLT just volunteered to write up a tutorial on MIDAS. > That's me, SLT, I share my firstname with Stephen, St=E9phane being the French version. I can write a short tutorial about how to write a program in PDP-10 assembly language and also how to use IDDT to debug it (if I can remember how to use it). I have the Gorin "Introduction to DECSYSTEM-20" January 2008 edition in PDF if someone needs it. If someone has a tape drive which can read a 9 tracks tape with a tar file stored on it, *maybe* I could find some of my original code in MIDAS. Drop me a mail. --=20 Stephane FreeDonne Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne. --001a11c25c1ab330cc04efa4c806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Steph= en Jones <smj@sdf.org> wrote:
> Very nice Dave! I will do something= similar for APL when I get a chance.

Perfect, SLT just volunteered to write up a tutorial on MIDAS.

That's me, SLT, I share my firstname with Stephe= n, St=E9phane being the French version.
I can write a short tutorial about how to= write a program in PDP-10 assembly language and also how to use IDDT to de= bug it (if I can remember how to use it).

I have the = Gorin "Introduction to DECSYSTEM-20" January 2008 edition in PDF = if someone needs it.

If someone has a tape drive which can read a 9 tracks tape with a tar file = stored on it, *maybe* I could find some of my original code in MIDAS. Drop = me a mail.

--
Stephane FreeDonne=A0Join= FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne.

--001a11c25c1ab330cc04efa4c806-- 10-Jan-2014 19:44:47-PST,1435;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 10-Jan-2014 19:44:47 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:44:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <201401101948.s0AJmgnr009261@sdf.org> Message-ID: <14855217113.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Stephen Jones wrote: > Perfect, SLT just volunteered to write up a tutorial on MIDAS. A MIDAS tutorial would be very welcome! I'll make a page for COBOL with what I found out about file assignment. I'll also work on a MACRO page as I work through my assembly language text book. * * * It's great to see this mailing list perk up a little bit. At the same time, I encourage all TWENEX fans not to forget the TWENEX BBOARD on twenex.org. (I suppose we need a rule-of-thumb for what kinds of messages belong on twenex-l and which on BBOARD.) Also, by all means connect to twenex.org when you have a chance and renew or deepen your relationship with this venerable yet strangely alluring system. @FINGER is your friend, and feel free to @SEND whenever you see me (PAPA) on-line. I will do my best to join the tail-end of the COMMODE chat tomorrow after I get home from Mass. (I've added a table of local times for the chat on the COMMODE wiki page[1].) [1]: http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:commode#world_clock -- PDP-10, dead but dreaming. ------- 10-Jan-2014 19:47:16-PST,2440;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0B3lFZ1001701 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:47:15 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0B3lF7E026506 for twenex-l-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:47:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s0B3lE5D014929 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:47:14 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:44:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] How do I compile Fortran 77 code? To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <201401101948.s0AJmgnr009261@sdf.org> Message-ID: <14855217113.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Stephen Jones wrote: > Perfect, SLT just volunteered to write up a tutorial on MIDAS. A MIDAS tutorial would be very welcome! I'll make a page for COBOL with what I found out about file assignment. I'll also work on a MACRO page as I work through my assembly language text book. * * * It's great to see this mailing list perk up a little bit. At the same time, I encourage all TWENEX fans not to forget the TWENEX BBOARD on twenex.org. (I suppose we need a rule-of-thumb for what kinds of messages belong on twenex-l and which on BBOARD.) Also, by all means connect to twenex.org when you have a chance and renew or deepen your relationship with this venerable yet strangely alluring system. @FINGER is your friend, and feel free to @SEND whenever you see me (PAPA) on-line. I will do my best to join the tail-end of the COMMODE chat tomorrow after I get home from Mass. (I've added a table of local times for the chat on the COMMODE wiki page[1].) [1]: http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:commode#world_clock -- PDP-10, dead but dreaming. ------- 11-Jan-2014 03:06:44-PST,1476;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com ([209.85.216.182]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id c9so3309095qcz.41 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:08:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3pCUw/nrz3GkRrhEb0ZTiQQxhCvV6UB2wQSkX/D8LUw=; b=gO8qvXWt32Fi3S6d9R+ywZcUa6dOmQ5CuGDAEo0RD/8levUmCqKw9FptAaPKZNNLtO WD7EfFrySMqqpq41a49bzyJlbKWbBuXwwjD682g77NNWr1Y4gBAxFlxyj7GER6JYsWF3 ES3mpp0Ya1M+E1hNSjviheWxGBkaPxmqumbDOKWAaYRZvM5ytR+mc7HZu0ALwklSV/Wd 6k+wtn/noYJp+MdFIr1o2Bdna9hwcm8KLUxoF3U/ol/4OrOzcgFu0GexLkWgOKEEWkII A0FFJtaGCjIOeArcxR7+pkZFmQG+IXVCg2R34brQHN3bxB83L1eIwQBz6cxooeMkrxWJ i25Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.52.34 with SMTP id q2mr17704104qeo.10.1389438511533; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:08:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.98.166 with HTTP; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:08:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 20:08:31 +0900 Message-ID: Subject: Form Post from Firefox From: David Meyer To: papa@twenex.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Name=jdm E-mail=jdm@example.net Comment=test comment Submit=Submit 11-Jan-2014 08:17:48-PST,754;000000000001 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:13:24 -0800 (PST) From: The Mailer Daemon To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Subject: Message of 8-Jan-2014 05:40:25 Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: hobbsc@ma.sdf.org: Cannot connect to host ------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 05:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: hobbsc@ma.sdf.org cc: twenex-l@SDF.ORG, PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <01f1dbe0-dbfd-437a-b3bc-e734f09d8594@email.android.com> Message-ID: <14854539112.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Christopher M. Hobbs wrote: >I haven't noticed any traffic at all, much less spam. At least its alive. Where there's life there's hope. :) ------- ------- 12-Jan-2014 19:23:41-PST,2013;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 12-Jan-2014 19:23:41 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 19:23:41 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric Lorenzo Wats Subject: TOPS-20 VS ITS To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14855737560.14.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO DAVID, SORRY FOR THE INTERRUPTION. I HAD A (REAL) PHONE CALL. I THINK RUNNING ITS WOULD BE A REAL FEAT OF SYSTEM BRAVADO. AS I UNDERSTAND, THE DEBUGER IS THE COMMAND INTERPRETER, THERE IS A SPECIAL COMMAND TO CRASH THE SYSTEM AT WILL -- TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FOR DOING IT BY MAKING IT RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLE -- A POWERFUL DETERRENT IN ITS NATIVE ENVIRONMENT. AND THERE IS CHAOSNET, AND IT SEEMS YOU CANNOT EVEN USE TELNET -- YOU HAVE TO USE AN EARLY CLIENT-SERVER APP NAMED SUPDUP. AND LEARNING TECO SHOULD JUST BE ICING ON THE CAKE. WHAT MORE COULD A BONA FIDE HACKER WANT... ALL PERSONS ASPIRING TO THIS TITLE SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE THEMSELVES ON ITS FIRST. HAHAHA I RAN THE TOPS-20 PANDA DISTRIBUTION FOR A WHILE. IT IS EASY TO SET UP. THERE WERE TWO MINOR INCONVENIENCES. FIRST, YOU HAVE TO DO PROPER SYSTEM SHUTDOWNS - PROBLEMATIC WHERE I LIVE -- ELECTRICITY IS NOT ALWAYS STABLE. SECOND, IT TAKES MORE WORK TO ALLOW LOGINS OVER THE NETWORK -- I VAGUELY REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT TWO NETWORK CARDS OR SOME TAP DEVICE..... BUT IT WORKS FINE ON THE CONSOLE.... BUT I THINK TWENEX.ORG IS A VERY FINE SERVICE. WE ARE SOMEWHAT LIMITED ON DISK SPACE. THAT IS WHERE THE TAPE MANAGEMENT SUBSYSTEM COULD HELP. WE COULD MIGRATE OUR LITTLE USED FILES TO SIMULATED TAPE. THEY WOULD REALLY BE STORED COMPRESSED ON THE HOST SYSTEM. THE COMMANDS TO MOUNT AND UNMOUNT TAPES WOULD BE INTERCEPTED AND SIMULATED TOO. THIS WOULD GIVE US ALL SOME NEEDED PRACTICE IN REQUESTING TAPE MOUNTS FROM AN OPERATOR. UNLESS WE WERE FAIRLY HIGH UP IN THE HIERARCHY OF A REAL PDP-10 WE HAVE PROBABLY NEVER HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY... ALAS, I NEVER DID. BUT A ROBOTIC OPERATOR COULD CARRY OUT ALL OUR REQUESTS WITH EASE AND VERY PROMPTLY. HAHAHA.... --CEDRIC ------- 13-Jan-2014 10:55:50-PST,372;000000000011 Mail-From: JOVAN created at 13-Jan-2014 10:55:50 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 10:55:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jovan Trujillo Subject: Re: TWOG The Twenex Log 2014-01-12 To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14855528731.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14855907251.8.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> I tried the subscribe button but just got XML code instead. ------- 13-Jan-2014 16:03:10-PST,277;000000000011 Mail-From: SMJ created at 13-Jan-2014 14:49:06 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:49:06 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Jones Subject: Re: PHONE To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14855713734.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14855949717.13.SMJ@TWENEX.ORG> ------- 13-Jan-2014 16:03:10-PST,394;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 13-Jan-2014 15:08:19 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:08:19 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: TWOG The Twenex Log 2014-01-12 To: JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14855907251.8.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14855953215.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> What browser are you using? Doed it handle Atom feeds on other sites? ------- 13-Jan-2014 16:11:47-PST,7284;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0DLnniw009558 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:49:49 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0DLnnjA001043 for twenex-l-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:49:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from nm35-vm5.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm35-vm5.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.97.128]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0DLnkuu011262 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:49:48 GMT Received: from [212.82.98.55] by nm35.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2014 21:36:40 -0000 Received: from [212.82.98.69] by tm8.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2014 21:36:40 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2014 21:36:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 588474.2207.bm@omp1006.mail.ir2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 7323 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jan 2014 21:36:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1389649000; bh=/XJwFO/4GA+GSBY+dvXCd6hyCuNVD3FgThvCvuE90BE=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Ce2qkOU1+6D6/YamKqrIWGmJ8igPHxbHw4kpe0A/Awn57urG0jNtf/q3cpLX+7lYLeM0W4P4w4ZEd48NGJrwOpzOD+4YCRxH6GSYUwXjv7AJDHzsTQdbbpWpMz66BNq9Owr1N6I54YPv54ImwUSKeTMJ5QO0MVAT1UmIWHOjBs4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=59K4jtkk3fTxjMZwVxEDpPPpmebn0w92ySK1l6stvDSvB8eZjN14V46xUYArda+1DkrLfbvlor8Rs2vS0dLLiAo0d9SxY3AE+7Vq1+oOi8tPuC+It6R6hloSxB9+DRM61rPez9yYWczhxt4UneWTy0utQlRQunz9UbCeGZgP2GM=; X-YMail-OSG: 4aWraMoVM1lh3p8EE6Qre6T23aj7sPuVreXfwEycXhWMLOr FBCrOi10oGcrUEpqmKoHjYpcR0GSkbrfUsbC4rndfmkDJ07bfdIDyju8.ddA PZ7yu9yaioDs.OTnaALibE3l4.GUWHuPyyRe8J4qjS8se64mjtBpt._VKDbY JpXNWOWD6R.k7cgYgh2li1.YC35fLccmGOEnYzBvJuE1Z2_WWDzh00i2P3gy UBFq4lz0R8_S6XsZxGQN5FxATJsxfK4dG2CEjaKCd9dGVQkLenGKJeIZCHjK aaYBf3ZpTeuWfFkn3D7D95YBlNRw6JTA6PTCzYU8MnzvwybRDorlc7GTZhUg 9QHf34ZgS8odq5bW7q2xfiDbKjHQ7cCIFT.LifCnWAFekB2_AqTGTHWvL_aV wvCyBDC5DqR_G4nX83f1EW_iChUuILzODLg7vHvzBA6XcxN6UfhhUfYQTpkL cGeW_uTWULVNpt.NUgjezErMumHRq.vTCFPBkKQ2ounqEJ.mybkzFwVr_ViU gbCrX5ezKBWaZjOL1TtXTrJuostcFYjC2Y3VldTTwyaawSQ-- Received: from [188.29.102.122] by web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:36:40 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,QikgCkkgd2FzIGFjdHVhbGx5IHRoaW5raW5nIG9mIGdldHRpbmcgYSBjb3B5IG9mIHRoZSBERUMgSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uIHRvIEFuc2kgQkFTSUMgYm9vayAtIGknbSBzdXJlIHdlIGNvdWxkIGRvIHdpdGggYSBmZXcgbW9yZSBCQVNJQyBnYW1lcyBvbiB0aGlzIHN5c3RlbSE_IDspCgoKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCiBGcm9tOiBEYXZpZCBNZXllciA8UEFQQUBUV0VORVguT1JHPgpUbzogdHdlbmV4LWxAc2RmLm9yZyAKQ2M6IFBBUEFAVFdFTkVYLk9SRyAKU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXkBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.172.614 References: <1389212570.62689.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14854813320.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:36:40 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: <14854813320.13.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1444729080-853644900-1389649000=:74468" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --1444729080-853644900-1389649000=:74468 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable B) =0AI was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to = Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this = system!? ;)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: David Meye= r =0ATo: twenex-l@sdf.org =0ACc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG =0ASent: = Thursday, 9 January 2014, 14:46=0ASubject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l!= =0A =0A=0Amichael osullivan wrote:=0A=0A> Greetings fr= om sunny England! So some of you are still writing code =0A> for DEC PDP 10= /20 mainframes in 2104?=0A=0ANot just writing code. I just bought a copy of= "Introduction to =0ADECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language Programming"! Teaching = a dead horse new=0Atricks, but is the horse the PDP-10, or myself? ;)=0A=0A= ------- --1444729080-853644900-1389649000=:74468 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
B)
I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC In= troduction to Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC = games on this system!? ;)

From: David Meyer <PAPA@TWENEX.ORG>
= To: twenex-l@sdf.org
= Cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG
<= b>Sent: Thursday, 9 January 2= 014, 14:46
Subject: Re: [twenex-l] H= ello, twenex-l!

micha= el osullivan <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Greetings fro= m sunny England! So some of you are still writing code
&= gt; for DEC PDP 10/20 mainframes in 2104?


Not just writing code. I just bought a copy of "Introduction to <= br clear=3D"none">DECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language Programming"! Teaching a d= ead horse new
tricks, but is the horse the PDP-10, or mys= elf? ;)

--= -----


--1444729080-853644900-1389649000=:74468-- 15-Jan-2014 16:27:06-PST,1454;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 14-Jan-2014 05:03:29 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 05:03:29 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> michael osullivan wrote: > I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to > Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this > system!? ;) An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC games myself. Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from disk with the OLD command. Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for the variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details that might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an interpreter different from the one you're using. Keep on hackin'! ------- 15-Jan-2014 16:27:06-PST,319;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 14-Jan-2014 05:06:23 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 05:06:23 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: PHONE To: SMJ@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14855949717.13.SMJ@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14856105781.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Your reply was blank. ------- 15-Jan-2014 16:27:06-PST,437;000000000001 Mail-From: JOVAN created at 13-Jan-2014 18:35:44 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 18:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jovan Trujillo Subject: Re: TWOG The Twenex Log 2014-01-12 To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14855953215.8.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14855990974.8.JOVAN@TWENEX.ORG> Ok it works in Firefox after I added an ATOM Feed reader called Sage. I just learned about ATOM feeds because of this. - Jovan ------- 15-Jan-2014 16:44:23-PST,2459;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:40:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0G0f6C9028930 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:41:06 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0G0f6xE016855 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:41:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from TWENEX.ORG (twenex.org [192.94.73.36]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with SMTP id s0G0f5R3004843 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:41:05 GMT Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 05:03:29 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@sdf.org cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Én-Reply-To: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: David Meyer Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org michael osullivan wrote: > I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to > Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this > system!? ;) An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC games myself. Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from disk with the OLD command. Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for the variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details that might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an interpreter different from the one you're using. Keep on hackin'! ------- 16-Jan-2014 04:36:19-PST,3592;000000000001 Return-Path: <365000@gmail.com> Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.216.54]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id i13so2066586qae.13 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:37:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NEyaAU/D3YDFvcbp76w0WIeNXR6+RDO+OqDd7dfuk4U=; b=bgqeegcqzdMRNgKDENocOoHt+X9lilSGTWbQQFjzjx+YzgHW8vKJCMXXnamV17EbU1 aRr2DQEGCBNp9gj4ofs5/aGE4qeniPQghw2PWisvJ5EskuJzWRdcla/wU9dBH5tiFfSB 3qKuzMd4YBTunCZZfBRmhNHxhBZWe/3q+c62WdvSXTqFFziaurHncDO3fKOdHP0l1V7r Zw2PUMA5mB4HOa5IuiWn/dJNwBUQHLOacmllfaUgw5vx6bBZXZLknTk5ZHrHn1naMLwR wjpa+YMg9+CNPHEPqeVsawPOT4ePC0p+3Hlulmw92GnWVAfj9HsuG5+uEPVVX3HDVHe8 NnFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.122.195 with SMTP id m3mr15249683qcr.7.1389875854146; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:37:34 -0800 (PST) Sender: 365000@gmail.com Received: by 10.96.228.65 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:37:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 13:37:34 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: O4X1b5Ydea6y7uurj6ihu9WWsBg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! From: Klaus Zeuge To: twenex-l@sdf.org Cc: PAPA@twenex.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler than just about any other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no line numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC-64 - even VIC-20!). As far as I remember, there was one statement per line (i.e., no '10 PRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitations on lengths of variable names and what not. Actually, I remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early" for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use S-expressions everywhere. Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10? /sojge 2014/1/14 David Meyer : > michael osullivan wrote: >> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to >> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this >> system!? ;) > > An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC games > myself. > > Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was > developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on > alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for > TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently > harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from disk > with the OLD command. > > Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for > the variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot > of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large > BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details > that might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an > interpreter different from the one you're using. > > Keep on hackin'! > ------- -- http://twitter.com/sojge 16-Jan-2014 04:54:23-PST,4555;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0GCbcG0016809 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 12:37:38 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0GCbcmu025791 for twenex-l-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 12:37:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-qc0-f179.google.com (mail-qc0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0GCbbgB025757 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-SHA (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 12:37:38 GMT Received: by mail-qc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id e16so2185175qcx.24 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:37:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NEyaAU/D3YDFvcbp76w0WIeNXR6+RDO+OqDd7dfuk4U=; b=bgqeegcqzdMRNgKDENocOoHt+X9lilSGTWbQQFjzjx+YzgHW8vKJCMXXnamV17EbU1 aRr2DQEGCBNp9gj4ofs5/aGE4qeniPQghw2PWisvJ5EskuJzWRdcla/wU9dBH5tiFfSB 3qKuzMd4YBTunCZZfBRmhNHxhBZWe/3q+c62WdvSXTqFFziaurHncDO3fKOdHP0l1V7r Zw2PUMA5mB4HOa5IuiWn/dJNwBUQHLOacmllfaUgw5vx6bBZXZLknTk5ZHrHn1naMLwR wjpa+YMg9+CNPHEPqeVsawPOT4ePC0p+3Hlulmw92GnWVAfj9HsuG5+uEPVVX3HDVHe8 NnFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.122.195 with SMTP id m3mr15249683qcr.7.1389875854146; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.228.65 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:37:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 13:37:34 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: O4X1b5Ydea6y7uurj6ihu9WWsBg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! From: Klaus Zeuge To: twenex-l@sdf.org Cc: PAPA@twenex.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Klaus Zeuge Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org The BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler than just about any other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no line numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC-64 - even VIC-20!). As far as I remember, there was one statement per line (i.e., no '10 PRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitations on lengths of variable names and what not. Actually, I remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early" for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use S-expressions everywhere. Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10? /sojge 2014/1/14 David Meyer : > michael osullivan wrote: >> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to >> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this >> system!? ;) > > An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC games > myself. > > Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was > developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on > alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for > TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently > harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from disk > with the OLD command. > > Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for > the variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot > of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large > BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details > that might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an > interpreter different from the one you're using. > > Keep on hackin'! > ------- -- http://twitter.com/sojge 16-Jan-2014 09:45:27-PST,7700;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com ([209.85.213.172]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:44:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-f172.google.com with SMTP id k19so13234524igc.5 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:47:58 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=os61lTdOmJ2CuUxrP+U7NzywZ5GczZz8S6kbzb+LgCQ=; b=TMoYImbY0XiCmJiOV7dXP79ZItE0UN5lPhdJM7TLRdg/+KR9+aW8s+gl1XMvV02wym P1YMrZjvDLMEZ7N3G4ny89b4IYsMg7GUXpKVxFJHYRPmIcCDKUc2SOK0xkH/SK49qtj2 /MCSpKzv6FjxGZtpHuSR02l74/EzOviqc/7Osl6a/b13cnAnkRjNG2SAUr9g8D+Oma1q u82ivEDfych53x4DQxTiltogt+bknywYJhRo+6A+oSXc1kAUWQ8+IrpaAY46zxMze5h1 h6m7xTUdXOvmv7JXTRaBVd1IIiSUynIzxeIBi/SNtK75/KF8/xsvUx3CPXoXnN5qGA/R zUfA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmLrSXiFjZ7PiHI3TkiHsQTao0F2CQlza3DtuIRluJ7cmCOcRTOFO5xgbUzqOg4GWlWocCZ X-Received: by 10.50.176.201 with SMTP id ck9mr10995073igc.46.1389894477752; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:47:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.226.104 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:47:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> From: Carl Fussell Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:47:17 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: twenex-l@sdf.org Cc: PAPA@twenex.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111e2709f940e04f01a06fe --089e0111e2709f940e04f01a06fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My memory is a bit vague since this was back in the 80's, but I think I recall a BASIC on our TOPS-20 system called MAXBASIC (or something close to that.) I seem to recall that being very robust. I think it could compile as well as interpret? /caf On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:37 AM, Klaus Zeuge wrote: > The BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler than just about > any other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no line > numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC-64 - > even VIC-20!). > As far as I remember, there was one statement per line (i.e., no '10 > PRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitations on > lengths of variable names and what not. > Actually, I remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early" > for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use > S-expressions everywhere. > > Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10? > > /sojge > > > > > 2014/1/14 David Meyer : > > michael osullivan wrote: > >> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to > >> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on > this > >> system!? ;) > > > > An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC > games > > myself. > > > > Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was > > developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone > on > > alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for > > TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently > > harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from disk > > with the OLD command. > > > > Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for > > the variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot > > of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large > > BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details > > that might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an > > interpreter different from the one you're using. > > > > Keep on hackin'! > > ------- > > > > -- > http://twitter.com/sojge > --089e0111e2709f940e04f01a06fe Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My memory is a bit vague since this was back in the 8= 0's, but I think I recall a BASIC=A0 on our TOPS-20 system called MAXBA= SIC (or something close to that.)=A0=A0 I seem to recall that being very ro= bust.=A0=A0 I think it could compile as well as interpret?

/caf


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:37 AM, Klaus Zeuge &= lt;kz@kz.kz> wr= ote:
The BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, w= ay simpler than just about
any other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no line
numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC-64 =A0- even VIC-20!).
As far as I remember, there was one statement per line (i.e., no =A0'10=
PRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitation= s on
lengths of variable names and what not.
Actually, I remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early&q= uot;
for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use S-expressions everywhere.

Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10?

=A0 =A0 /sojge




2014/1/14 David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.or= g>:
> michael osullivan <trumos@yah= oo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction = to
>> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC g= ames on this
>> system!? ;)
>
> An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC= games
> myself.
>
> Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was
> developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someo= ne on
> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for > TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently<= br> > harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from di= sk
> with the OLD command.
>
> Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one f= or
> the variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a= lot
> of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large
> BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details > that might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an
> interpreter different from the one you're using.
>
> Keep on hackin'!
> -------



--
http://twitter.com/s= ojge

--089e0111e2709f940e04f01a06fe-- 20-Jan-2014 22:08:13-PST,836;000000000011 Mail-From: SCHAEFER created at 20-Jan-2014 22:08:13 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 22:08:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schaefer Subject: Re: TWOG The Twenex Log 2014-01-03 To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14853186332.6.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14857864664.14.SCHAEFER@TWENEX.ORG> hi David, looks like you're having a good time! > While I'm waiting for my assembly language programming book I found a pointer to another "book" you might want. This page: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/dec20.html says: Chris Ryland and Frank had been working on a DEC-20 assembly-language programming guide in 1979-80, which might have become a book had Ralph not beat us to it :-) CLICK HERE to view a plain-text version of it, recently unearthed (Sep 2002), about 220 pages. ------- 22-Jan-2014 07:55:26-PST,355;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 22-Jan-2014 07:55:26 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:55:26 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: TWOG The Twenex Log 2014-01-03 To: SCHAEFER@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14857864664.14.SCHAEFER@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14858233706.14.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Thanks I'll check it out ------- 26-Jan-2014 04:25:18-PST,14630;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 04:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0QCQbMG005008 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:26:37 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0QCQbOt007405 for twenex-l-outgoing; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:26:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from nm1-vm4.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm1-vm4.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.96.75]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0QCQZ5q009595 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:26:37 GMT Received: from [212.82.98.61] by nm1.bullet.íail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 12:13:48 -0000 Received: from [212.82.98.73] by tm14.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 12:13:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1010.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 12:13:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 777945.8480.bm@omp1010.mail.ir2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 6913 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jan 2014 12:13:48 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1390738428; bh=8faCLK3VM10FAte3pJ8acLJmzUfXQxln8N+6bCNPD+8=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Messáge-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=P3dt6a3L82+NYWKygDFvGAo9mBC4sOi3d6dlJOkhpSeKRtvpLJiLFTPw3wlcdP6dleNa0EqLAnC8E6CGzfEj47wFmDj8uVH4uddkdXhL99v8gv4R/Bd3l8mfgCJCAv6Z+Mf4W5bH19jh7t7fYQKW9rJPNDxcyMZZeynEpkh29+E= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=gw+Fx5hAharcAn7cditTi6MUUZdQiXooSODLOp6eGbu5urLAN2AvX5BvBgUJtSybqMNpShxaolvX4uAeXobaVYj3NZtlE6+IYVCTvQvaJaIcxGAX1MaQ3zJsBKBnGoGGGW/M6qu6zzowdPDyG4n21CRmeYV8ju5uB5NZ1HfdOVk=; X-YMail-OSG: hJX2RpEVM1mqh6S7JSx_fdeolI9CZMBxvUnmSUEZsn2wN8X 02ZdrghilQFiFuEqEkIETWmlECh2DlVYPydspl7YksdzjulnvdSafcFG3mc4 KuTUdgV.IUcUNzXfTAo4jLSCTNdLNNt.bZaTP_eguOtbC58eoRr_nWGVHFc6 wZixT71TF2x4eHlo6lhqNjMP08Mc79MnE7VjogDeAdDfwtN.6lbnK3_p14Mi zhkgLRlGFHBQEJMYgV1qwd1_MV2XDTTO1N3yeMaE87aq9G3dx.gYU_lYag6w JD5TxfvcCAcaMw6WOGJBW1fhg0FK3xFdK_861yZrs64zlYQ1Ba8eMWGFirRV 75nNTnYBttlBVPyvT9XV8J6wkwxAXeKxmBgDzhHmbO4qp4DwMQb1_x29IIos d84cVGlJOQkAsOE_j9LXhSUcWU6lOndy1lypUtktRkCjd0SsfTyqA7HxAUoh Lv6AMr0hGVpXLi4ctsRAeArrc17HX1JLqOa41QEwMfhwutmMoIl3gH6WuaAI XR92B0wKN9jOoIBw.6CTHza86JmCtMgX3NW9txZUv0R0EQjF1wRY5RR5IYwf 2Wz5b9F9KJav7.VAS26b7oDxZrS.UFOp2B2acjTfZ4vjyz5ll_4RgbMhBAPR d2yCmQTrhjthkT7edEs4e3ELxaCOQjSV6r8Tzvreac447F68w0tPL0kyiW6P DXSPPXKZyAhtLi9je1KeIrKIwHZQGpY46VaQUGZe_hm8E9WpGB9OMfCZy8ik yLvxQiA3Hve1Cl84eRrrZuaKesPEceLof.5Eq2SMe4zNTyWgJfaufy_Ec5gr DO3cVGS9_mTyBdqN1VKzjg0VN2JMQcMA0YemZ1VH9kpRd0O_Es64yt_WdeYH xEASHt1UaigMmzIGILLFN.1ay.x.HdYgb_uFORqEQCbfFMSpeC1clFadjpyN xMH7lLIRlkzIfaJopagWNblxkNYDF1.OXi4sxIW.jyt9M6.5PHiNExXAlYNx X0XJsP2oqr2bu3Zak2xtXSBWHminNNHPjlU7QvH_VdE9zgFx4OLlGzaVO_AN NXpgHXSt7B3DNwKFMt63ekjc1VUMv0pEjoG.emrgnv69wPjpNtWO1AxrOSin kCmlQn5rMXUd9TyHJCA7TqOt9O.iYxDokmPGe8IfPp82Xvd_OgYFEHmJ1Ov6 mY8ogKL40AVZqFdRuMfuRKAwvDhS9xHzCQDCjJtD8dyGiwAcBy2vRP2iPjug VY6yWKbNUscArKydC1_ayQefXarybzF67vNxoWkQhYTvuP2iSmu9JjI444y8 x4VVqZw_Q0rYfetdT5Q4GH1cxnRE9UklzDdYq59zIrhcj6XB70WmgLp3NhxA 3bzIBwHIGOIh0iX1JIc..ZaEqMzXcD3UZcXdVg0ymtyHJoIerCyz7xPaqXFX dQ1_UVdLJv33eOsuLqwD389gSJ6LXyRqJ633DsQ4Of4Vc8KogOCQ4mKNzI0n TUTcTGYGAAVWphMYe9WXyus3mF5nFK1lbB4wxZKog_j5Jlfc_HdCXLkzGwWn xCDxdfCETw08i_8Mg_rIYYOkhk0xb5HYC.tL6KbQtc64xoLeGsRShrwXkb6c 8NRFNvSqRgniVh3FMPawzEYGg2KdU4iv9FaHUWa1b1cI1oVXMPSWLXV12AbR c Received: from [31.185.169.218] by web171802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:13:48 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhhbmtzISBJIGNhbid0IHJlbWVtYmVyIGlmIGl0IGlzIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0IGJvb2sgbm93IGFzIGkgY2FuJ3QgZmluZCBpdCBvbiBBbWF6b24sIHRoZXkgZGVsZXRlZCBteSBiYXNrZXQgY29udGVudHMgLiBJIGFtIGp1c3QgCmxvb2tpbmcgYXQgYSBwZGYgZnJvbSBiaXRzYXZlcnMgZm9yIHRoZSAiQkFTSUMgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uYWwgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgCm1hbnVhbCIgd2hpY2ggaXMgZm9yIFBEUC1sMCBCQVNJQyB2ZXJzaW9uIDE3RC7CoCBJIHNlZSBpbiB0aGUgYmFzaWMuaGxwIGZpbGUgb24gdHdlbmV4IHQBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.173.622 References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <1390738428.56701.YahooMailNeo@web171802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:13:48 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1821453988-1249675437-1390738428=:56701" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org ---1821453988-1249675437-1390738428=:56701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! I can't remember if it is the correct book now as i can't find it o= n Amazon, they deleted my basket contents . I am just =0Alooking at a pdf f= rom bitsavers for the "BASIC conversational language =0Amanual" which is fo= r PDP-l0 BASIC version 17D.=A0 I see in the basic.hlp file on twenex that t= he version referenced is 17F and dated 1981, the above mentioned manual is = the one reccomended for further study also, although my pdf is dated 1974 v= ersion 17D; that pdf should be ok?=0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/search= ?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (2nd link from top)=0A=0Aor direct link: (i couldnt fi= nd the actual manual on bitsavers itself, and i have lost the link for the = manual on Amazon for the moment )=0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/url?sa= =3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0CDM= QFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%2Fdec%= 2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_Convers= ational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3DAFQjCNE= AznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks= Mike=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, 16 January 2014, 12:46, Klaus Zeuge wrote:=0A =0AThe BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler th= an just about=0Aany other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions= , no line=0Anumbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VI= C-64=A0 -=0Aeven VIC-20!).=0AAs far as I remember, there was one statement = per line (i.e., no=A0 '10=0APRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), sev= ere limitations on=0Alengths of variable names and what not.=0AActually, I = remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early"=0Afor the BASIC u= nder Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use=0AS-expressions ever= ywhere.=0A=0AWhere there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10?= =0A=0A=A0 =A0 /sojge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A2014/1/14 David Meyer :=0A> michael osullivan wrote:=0A>> I was actually t= hinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to=0A>> Ansi BASIC book -= i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this=0A>> system!? ;)= =0A>=0A> An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing B= ASIC games=0A> myself.=0A>=0A> Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.or= g is BASIC-10 which was=0A> developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supp= orted on TOPS-20 (Someone on=0A> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was t= he version DEC put out for=0A> TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though,= except for an apparently=0A> harmless warning message it prints when loadi= ng an source file from disk=0A> with the OLD command.=0A>=0A> Also, if you'= re going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for=0A> the variety of = BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot=0A> of different BA= SICs for all their computer lines. Though in large=0A> BASICALLY ;) the sam= e, there were a lot of variation in the details=0A> that might make it frus= trating to work with a book written for an=0A> interpreter different from t= he one you're using.=0A>=0A> Keep on hackin'!=0A> -------=0A=0A=0A=0A-- =0A= http://twitter.com/sojge ---1821453988-1249675437-1390738428=:56701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks! I can't remember if it is the correct book now as= i can't find it on Amazon, they deleted my basket contents . I am just =0A= looking at a pdf from bitsavers for the "BASIC conversational language =0Am= anual" which is for PDP-l0 BASIC version 17D.  I see in the basic.hlp = file on twenex that the version referenced is 17F and dated 1981, the above= mentioned manual is the one reccomended for further study also, although m= y pdf is dated 1974 version 17D; that pdf should be ok?
=0A
=0Ahttps:= //encrypted.google.com/search?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#= hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+        (2n= d link from top)
=0A
=0Aor<erm> direct link: (i couldnt find th= e actual manual on bitsavers itself, and i have lost the link for the manua= l on Amazon for the moment )
=0A
=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/url?= sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&am= p;cad=3Drja&ved=3D0CDMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik= .uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2F= DEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_Conversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu= 7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2= =3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA
=0A
=0A
=0A
Thanks Mike<= br>

=
= On Thursday, 16 January 2014, 12:46, Klaus Zeuge <kz@kz.kz> wrote:
The BASIC I remember from = Tops-10 was way, way simpler than just about
any other BA= SIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no line
= numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC-64  -=
even VIC-20!).
As far as I remember, t= here was one statement per line (i.e., no  '10
PRINT= "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitations on
lengths of variable names and what not.
A= ctually, I remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early"
for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn= 't use
S-expressions everywhere.

Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10?=

    /sojge




2014/1/14 David Meyer <= ;PAPA@twenex.org>:
> michael osulliva= n <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
&= gt;> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction t= o
>> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this
>> system!? ;)
>
>= ; An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC ga= mes
> myself.
>
> Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was> developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported = on TOPS-20 (Someone on
> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-P= LUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for
> TOPS-20). BA= SIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except for an apparently
> harmless warning message it prints when loading an source file from d= isk
> with the OLD command.
>
> Also, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure yo= u get one for
> the variety of BASIC that's actually r= unning. DEC by itself sold a lot
> of different BASICs for all their comput= er lines. Though in large
> BASICALLY ;) the same, the= re were a lot of variation in the details
> that might= make it frustrating to work with a book written for an
&= gt; interpreter different from the one you're using.
>=
> Keep on hackin'!

> -----= --



--
http://twitter.com/sojge



=
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Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:24:17 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,IgoxMCBmb3Igbj0xIHRvIDcKMjAgcHJpbnQgbiwgc3FyKG4pCjMwIG5leHQgbgo0MCBwcmludCAiRG9uZSEiCjUwIGVuZApydW4KCk5PTkFNRS5CMjAKU3VuZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDI2LCAyMDE0IDA0OjE3OjA0CgrCoDHCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgMSAKwqAywqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIDEuNDE0MjE0IArCoDPCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgMS43MzIwNTEgCsKgNMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAyIArCoDXCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgMi4BMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.173.622 References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <1390738428.56701.YahooMailNeo@web171802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1390739057.71396.YahooMailNeo@web171803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:24:17 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: <1390738428.56701.YahooMailNeo@web171802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1353131092-223195057-1390739057=:71396" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --1353131092-223195057-1390739057=:71396 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "=0A10 for n=3D1 to 7=0A20 print n, sqr(n)=0A30 next n=0A40 print "Done!"= =0A50 end=0Arun=0A=0ANONAME.B20=0ASunday, January 26, 2014 04:17:04=0A=0A= =A01=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1 =0A=A02=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 1.414214 =0A=A03=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.732051 = =0A=A04=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2 =0A=A05=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.236068 =0A=A06=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.4494= 9 =0A=A07=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.645751 =0ADone!=0A=0A=0ACom= pile time: 0.002 secs=0ARun time: 0.005 secs=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 Elapsed tim= e: 0:00:00=0A"=0A:-) looks ok so far ! =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, 26 Janu= ary 2014, 12:13, michael osullivan wrote:=0A =0AThanks= ! I can't remember if it is the correct book now as i can't find it on Amaz= on, they deleted my basket contents . I am just =0Alooking at a pdf from bi= tsavers for the "BASIC conversational language =0Amanual" which is for PDP-= l0 BASIC version 17D.=A0 I see in the basic.hlp file on twenex that the ver= sion referenced is 17F and dated 1981, the above mentioned manual is the on= e reccomended for further study also, although my pdf is dated 1974 version= 17D; that pdf should be ok?=0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=3D= en&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 (2nd link from top)=0A=0Aor direct link: (i couldnt find the= actual manual on bitsavers itself, and i have lost the link for the manual= on Amazon for the moment )=0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rc= t=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0CDMQFjAB&u= rl=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%2Fdec%2Fpdp10= %2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_Conversational= _Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4Ge= KIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks Mike= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, 16 January 2014, 12:46, Klaus Zeuge = wrote:=0A =0AThe BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler than ju= st about=0Aany other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no = line=0Anumbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC-64= =A0 -=0Aeven VIC-20!).=0AAs far as I remember, there was one statement per = line (i.e., no=A0 '10=0APRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe = limitations on=0Alengths of variable names and what not.=0AActually, I reme= mber the same impression of "wow, this must be early"=0Afor the BASIC under= Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use=0AS-expressions everywhe= re.=0A=0AWhere there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10?=0A= =0A=A0 =A0 /sojge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A2014/1/14 David Meyer := =0A> michael osullivan wrote:=0A>> I was actually thin= king of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to=0A>> Ansi BASIC=0A book -= i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this=0A>> system!? ;)= =0A>=0A> An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing B= ASIC games=0A> myself.=0A>=0A> Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.or= g is BASIC-10 which was=0A> developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supp= orted on TOPS-20 (Someone on=0A> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was t= he version DEC put out for=0A> TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though,= except for an apparently=0A> harmless warning message it prints when loadi= ng an source file from disk=0A> with the OLD command.=0A>=0A> Also, if you'= re going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for=0A> the variety of = BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself=0A sold a lot=0A> of different= BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large=0A> BASICALLY ;) the = same, there were a lot of variation in the details=0A> that might make it f= rustrating to work with a book written for an=0A> interpreter different fro= m the one you're using.=0A>=0A> Keep on hackin'!=0A> -------=0A=0A=0A=0A-- = =0Ahttp://twitter.com/sojge --1353131092-223195057-1390739057=:71396 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"
10 for n=3D1 to 7
20 print n, sqr(n)
30 next n
4= 0 print "Done!"
50 end
run

NONAME.B20
Sunday, January 26, 2= 014 04:17:04

 1        =      1
 2      &= nbsp;      1.414214
 3   &= nbsp;         1.732051
 4&= nbsp;            2 <= br> 5           = ;  2.236068
 6        = ;     2.44949
 7     =         2.645751
Done!


Compile time: 0.002 secs
Run time: 0.005 secs = ;       Elapsed time: 0:00:00
"
:-) looks ok= so far !



On Sunday, 26 January 2014, 12:13, michael osulli= van <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks! I can't remember = if it is the correct book now as i can't find it on Amazon, they deleted my= basket contents . I am just =0Alooking at a pdf from bitsavers for the "BASIC con= versational language =0Amanual" which is for PDP-l0 BASIC version 17D. = ; I see in the basic.hlp file on twenex that the version referenced is 17F = and dated 1981, the above mentioned manual is the one reccomended for furth= er study also, although my pdf is dated 1974 version 17D; that pdf should b= e ok?
=0A
=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.c= om/search?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-= l0+BASIC+        (2nd link from top)
=0A
=0Aor<erm> direct link: (i could= nt find the actual manual on bitsavers itself, and i have lost the link for= the manual on Amazon for the moment )
=0A
=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%2= 0basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0CDMQFjAB&= ;url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%2Fdec%2Fpdp= 10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_Conversation= al_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3DAFQj= CNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA
=0A
=0A
=0A
T= hanks Mike


On Thursday, 16 J= anuary 2014, 12:46, Klaus Zeuge <kz@kz.kz> wrote:
=
The BASIC I rem= ember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler than just about
a= ny other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no line
numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, ABC-80, VIC= -64  -
even VIC-20!).
As far as I = remember, there was one statement per line (i.e., no  '10
PRI= NT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitations on
lengths of variable names and what not.
Actually, I= remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early"
for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use
S-expressions everywhere.

Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10?

    /sojge




2014/1/1= 4 David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.= org>:
> michael osullivan <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>&g= t; I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to
>> Ansi BASIC=0A book - i'm sure we could do with a fe= w more BASIC games on this
>> system!? ;)
>
> An excellent idea. I have ported a fe= w of the Creative Computing BASIC games
> myself.
>
> Note that the BASIC interpreter o= n twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was
> developed for TOP= S-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on
> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for=
> TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except= for an apparently
> harmless warning message it print= s when loading an source file from disk
> with the OLD= command.
>
> Also, if you're goi= ng to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for
> th= e variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself=0A sold a lot
> of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Thoug= h in large
> BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot o= f variation in the details
> that might make it frustr= ating to work with a book written for an
> interpreter= different from the one you're using.
>
> Keep on hackin'!

> -------



--
http://twitter.com/sojge




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Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:02:39 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,YXBwb2xvZ2llczogaSBzZW5kaW5nIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlcyBpbiB0aGUgd3Jvbmcgb3JkZXIuIEkgbWVhbnQgdG8gc2VuZCAidGhhbmtzIGFuZCBwZGbCoCAxc3QgYW5kIGxpc3RpbmcgZnJvbSB0d2VuZXggMm5kLgoKCktpbmQgUmVnYXJkcyBNaWtlCgoKCgoKT24gLCBtaWNoYWVsIG9zdWxsaXZhbiA8dHJ1bW9zQHlhaG9vLmNvLnVrPiB3cm90ZToKIApUaGFua3MhIEkgd2FzIHVuZGVyIHRoZSBpbXByZXNzaW9uIGl0IHdhcyBhIHN5c3RlbS0yMCBiYXNpYy4gSSBhbSBqdXN0IGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgYSBwZGYgZnIBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.173.622 References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <1390741256.61253.YahooMailNeo@web171803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1390741359.61470.YahooMailNeo@web171805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:02:39 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: <1390741256.61253.YahooMailNeo@web171803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="442431671-1295196554-1390741359=:61470" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --442431671-1295196554-1390741359=:61470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable appologies: i sending the messages in the wrong order. I meant to send "tha= nks and pdf=A0 1st and listing from twenex 2nd.=0A=0A=0AKind Regards Mike= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn , michael osullivan wrote:=0A =0A= Thanks! I was under the impression it was a system-20 basic. I am just look= ing at a pdf from bitsavers for the "BASIC conversational language manual" = which is for PDP-l0 BASIC version 17D. =0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/s= earch?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+=0A= =0Aor erm: (i coulnt find the actual manual on bitsavers itself )=0A=0Ahttp= s://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3D= web&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0CDMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informati= k.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2= FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_Conversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kU= qSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-g= r3tR-iWO-fItA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, 16 January 2014, 0:48, Da= vid Meyer wrote:=0A =0Amichael osullivan wrote:=0A> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introd= uction to =0A> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few=0A more BA= SIC games on this =0A> system!? ;)=0A=0AAn excellent idea. I have ported a = few of the Creative Computing BASIC games=0A=0Amyself.=0A=0ANote that the B= ASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was=0Adeveloped for TOPS-1= 0 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on=0Aalt.sys.pdp10 tho= ught BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for =0ATOPS-20). BASIC-10 s= eems to work OK, though, except for an apparently=0Aharmless warning messag= e it prints when loading an source file from disk=0Awith the OLD command.= =0A=0AAlso, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for= =0Athe variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot= =0Aof=0A different BASICs for all=0A their computer lines. Though in large= =0ABASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details=0Ath= at might make it frustrating to work with a book written for an=0Ainterpret= er different from the one you're using.=0A=0AKeep on hackin'!=0A=0A------- --442431671-1295196554-1390741359=:61470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
appologies: i sending the messages in the wrong order. I meant= to send "thanks and pdf  1st and listing from twenex 2nd.


= Kind Regards Mike



= On , michael osullivan <trumos@yahoo.co= .uk> wrote:
Thanks! I was un= der the impression it was a system-20 basic. I am just looking at a pdf fro= m bitsavers for the "BASIC conversational language manual" which is for PDP= -l0 BASIC version 17D.

https://encryp= ted.google.com/search?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&= amp;q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+

or erm: (i couln= t find the actual manual on bitsavers itself )

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q= =3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0C= DMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%= 2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_C= onversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&= ;usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA=



<= div class=3D"yiv2266179394yqt6094686786" id=3D"yiv2266179394yqt81272">


On Thursd= ay, 16 January 2014, 0:48, David Meyer <PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> wrote:
m= ichael osullivan <tru= mos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I was actually thinki= ng of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to
> Ans= i BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few=0A more BASIC games on this =
> system!? ;)

An= excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BASIC games<= div class=3D"yiv2266179394yqt1744432752" id=3D"yiv2266179394yqtfd46481">myself.


Note tha= t the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was
developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone= on
alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version = DEC put out for
TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, tho= ugh, except for an apparently
harmless warning message it= prints when loading an source file from disk
with the OL= D command.

Also, if you're going to pa= y for a manual, make sure you get one for
the variety of = BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot
o= f=0A different BASICs for all=0A their computer lines. Though in large
BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the d= etails
that might make it frustrating to work with a book= written for an
interpreter different from the one you're= using.

Keep on hackin'!

-------




--442431671-1295196554-1390741359=:61470-- 26-Jan-2014 05:16:54-PST,12042;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.18]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 05:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.18]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0QDDfAp004420 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:13:41 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.7/8.12.8/Submit) id s0QDDfGi008631 for twenex-l-outgoing; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:13:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from nm28-vm5.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm28-vm5.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.97.65]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0QDDdmQ017981 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:13:41 GMT Received: from [212.82.98.48] by nm28.bullåt.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 13:00:57 -0000 Received: from [212.82.98.121] by tm1.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 13:00:57 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1058.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 13:00:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 278199.43542.bm@omp1058.mail.ir2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 68560 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jan 2014 13:00:57 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1390741257; bh=z1FDs2yESRBXnZMVhxWf8+fXHcm0/5EVBdvwDLxTaV4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:ReferencesºMessage-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=O86ct+bwePAFCWwWsOSpeC1zNAPYIvtcVsSOqGmygxTSz3f6O66oQZAr6FymrOnt8hiV4MV68gthhKAhjnedb/m9bxcvmOMIaBEZHF9+ASoDcM1AtZ/NXqn4qm/7IGyFOfhYWuf46H/hhe/Zozi3fbofqfKmu1uLymk8anN67p4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DvuC8xaUqKS1IK6QxyAVFS/vOQye/PSNgGGoO7ejOYw4mZPKR3Y1duBc93DCaKvxw1x50S3YiUHEtPwvokX5aTUuDczofG2yvj9PcThzOWD8M5eoIpC8l2+CWmoe6ydUtiOTKy/lmc7dZ1//fwHahspZTjIAH37sSk4cx3qljC4=; X-YMail-OSG: EOzoflcVM1nL8YN0OWz.pnzc36EfMA1zjP51f7g5d3Ek3hu 55wsDZzgOEsPoNPFLOl.xulnF0QoXEAEVzzYkY.K7Jipj_o__wpp_Rrrj4d6 Gr56GeUntGRd2L1KIvsYeCJnHWAC2jsGZN9JigUoIoCyPimuvMBujQMSyTWa M8zA0rnrm2KUGDP8MdtneuCTbLPPhc6Qrre1c3MLwF9LwQexWI6WPx.z2IXf utCnfpjMbXEIvh22oPHOmw6oJYyTOEpyOOuELN9CYfWS3aZmbja1lhr4cdWS ivwevqrQKmqPcnwuZiTIkYejN_y3YkyW3r_Ow4IwZyPSufGyH5MQupgUzPXi shtVvZrv04Igz8YlSeXVAmH56pDI4cEHwejx5ed1NNwoT2i8.B.yh6xE4i37 vqT8ZziLdBXpNcfu981VmprQgVojEGvtyyh9Vi6CltH_XXHAMvcT9oZpWrWP qJJXbxXPMQlZaeHCW6n9aGqKdn7pg_jy.IMuP1ad3i3VFmOMwetXJt6_N2r6 kHA8zuPDhBD6l4u.MeZc4V.IU8l91aAsRapLla1lWry3OA2WWUMP6jDkJIID xSYItSS_K1QNBWRe2Uvvinb6yKTBRikSYUOiecC._RY4Lg3JoMR4Q9QF7G8p .ImHIxrZdSfNCVW6hzwLlx3zZINPLd8OLtqzq9lvW9iHE.69KQ36OfUmO2zh 7W9CJAKDwkxmfc_kyeDMTqzmOQiRQDZoS3Rqi47UOrKyeagVvboruSzijrzP Xl.DQ7xdbD5pRTNXdRIha.VM1bjHWFTWgLuXf9s8oMlYxgpyo4cryFOiEZ9v 2k2bkZ02EI2gta3nShopvOviR5qbWC5raa.1IYyJBZ8bhX8e96H7GQyBCEUI fHqXCRR12SsYhPfQWF7oI45W0a5w2fuF_kpizgYmTZaeUye9R9CbgKfNYWGX k.j9IyGmWntpuzoOGlc876FkOBycM_kyWEPKgkqITbv5S2X0c9O2jyIzToRD EUyQuR5ApMF0SjAXRb8o_ds.rbxEvn32Si_Id52._rXSr0YLrRSqF3p4ZncN 1fCE.qNuPHyXTYFk_7dCt4KiWECBJcW6yEXBInT4nd8u9zfRp2w3Tu4EiIr0 qAd_s1vEGDpcXEZr9ue8zPG7F1HAsCRMcJq2Rf8diTNPNyKPVHRccObTdBYd c4SXFt2Hi3taW.5HmfmbBgE2WKuxnb7g0b.9pf0ziqsR7zA5JqWEVfoHD6Yw 83hRc1bOSlrVIPW1LnslhF9LYabDLGq1J7N3bHz_IFdiuIRF4Lv8Wd.RETKr 7h8g8Q3SZnGK1m7ShcFTR5796uiKyvVZLI8OtNtmMZiufmaLp4Wu5BNsKtEJ iXUM1WYoGjfNWyCFFi6EC1XitKuF1alsxLpZNzBB48BncjwG5j5jA9NHPY0U VPDX3jauMRzKIjUb586_dLXVxLUd8rcK5L2QYbKtUSXSlGKcIXCslkUvJ0DB jqYWCS5JK.XWah8vKB8ZXwkcvtIV9VTjSeJ3SCQge1OtQ70m6oNwc3S9YV2_ _zfK.jsJKdL_XOEE5eWAOd6HMDsjHrmmD.7Fy.2PBNB20EbPmEJ_BqVdP8sQ xSofg0Qee4J1sU0Kaow-- Received: from [31.185.169.218] by web171803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:00:56 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhhbmtzISBJIHdhcyB1bmRlciB0aGUgaW1wcmVzc2lvbiBpdCB3YXMgYSBzeXN0ZW0tMjAgYmFzaWMuIEkgYW0ganVzdCBsb29raW5nIGF0IGEgcGRmIGZyb20gYml0c2F2ZXJzIGZvciB0aGUgIkJBU0lDIGNvbnZlcnNhdGlvbmFsIGxhbmd1YWdlIG1hbnVhbCIgd2hpY2ggaXMgZm9yIFBEUC1sMCBCQVNJQyB2ZXJzaW9uIDE3RC4gCgpodHRwczovL2VuY3J5cHRlZC5nb29nbGUuY29tL3NlYXJjaD9obD1lbiZxPURFQyUyMEJhc2ljLTEwJTIwcGRwLTEwJTJGMjAjaGw9ZW4mcT1QRFAtbDArQkFTSUMrCgpvciABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.173.622 References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <1390741256.61253.YahooMailNeo@web171803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:00:56 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1353131092-545729327-1390741256=:61253" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --1353131092-545729327-1390741256=:61253 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! I was under the impression it was a system-20 basic. I am just look= ing at a pdf from bitsavers for the "BASIC conversational language manual" = which is for PDP-l0 BASIC version 17D. =0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/s= earch?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+=0A= =0Aor erm: (i coulnt find the actual manual on bitsavers itself )=0A=0Ahttp= s://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3D= web&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0CDMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informati= k.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2= FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_Conversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kU= qSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-g= r3tR-iWO-fItA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, 16 January 2014, 0:48, Da= vid Meyer wrote:=0A =0Amichael osullivan wrote:=0A> I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introd= uction to =0A> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few=0A more BA= SIC games on this =0A> system!? ;)=0A=0AAn excellent idea. I have ported a = few of the Creative Computing BASIC games=0A=0Amyself.=0A=0ANote that the B= ASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was=0Adeveloped for TOPS-1= 0 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on=0Aalt.sys.pdp10 tho= ught BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for =0ATOPS-20). BASIC-10 s= eems to work OK, though, except for an apparently=0Aharmless warning messag= e it prints when loading an source file from disk=0Awith the OLD command.= =0A=0AAlso, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for= =0Athe variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot= =0Aof different BASICs for all=0A their computer lines. Though in large=0AB= ASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details=0Athat m= ight make it frustrating to work with a book written for an=0Ainterpreter d= ifferent from the one you're using.=0A=0AKeep on hackin'!=0A=0A------- --1353131092-545729327-1390741256=:61253 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks! I was under the impress= ion it was a system-20 basic. I am just looking at a pdf from bitsavers for= the "BASIC conversational language manual" which is for PDP-l0 BASIC versi= on 17D.

https://encrypted.google.com/= search?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+= BASIC+

or erm: (i coulnt find the actu= al manual on bitsavers itself )

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q= =3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0C= DMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%= 2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_C= onversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&= ;usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA=



<= div class=3D"yiv1748377366yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv1748377366yui_3_13_0_ym1_7= _1390733186586_10" style=3D"display: block;">

= On Thursday, 16 January 2014, 0:48, David Meyer <PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> wro= te:
michael osullivan <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I was actual= ly thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to
> Ansi BASIC book - i'm sure we could do with a few=0A more BASIC games= on this
> system!? ;)

An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative Computing BAS= IC games

myself.


Note that the BASIC interpreter on twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was
developed for TOPS-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20= (Someone on
alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the= version DEC put out for
TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to wor= k OK, though, except for an apparently
harmless warning m= essage it prints when loading an source file from disk
wi= th the OLD command.

Also, if you're go= ing to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for
the va= riety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself sold a lot
of different BASICs for all=0A their computer lines. Though in large
BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the detai= ls
that might make it frustrating to work with a book wri= tten for an
interpreter different from the one you're usi= ng.

Keep on hackin'!

-= ------


=
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Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:54:16 GMT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,KGhlcmUgaXMgYSBjb3B5IG4gcGFzdGUgZnJvbSBteSBCQVNJQyBzZXNzaW9uOyBpdCBzZWVtcyBsaWtlIHRoYXQgaXMgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IG1hbnVhbCApLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQoKUkVBRFkKMTAgZm9yIG49MSB0byA3CjIwIHByaW50IG4sIHNxcihuKQozMCBuZXh0IG4KNDAgcHJpbnQgIkRvbmUhIgo1MCBlbmQKcnVuCgpOT05BTUUuQjIwClN1bmRheSwgSmFudWFyeSAyNiwgMjAxNCAwNDoxNzowNAoKwqAxwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIDEgCsKgMsKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAxLjQBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.173.622 References: <1389649000.74468.YahooMailNeo@web28706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <14856105252.12.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> <1390738428.56701.YahooMailNeo@web171802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1390740856.35868.YahooMailNeo@web171803.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:54:16 +0000 (GMT) From: michael osullivan Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, twenex-l! To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" In-Reply-To: <1390738428.56701.YahooMailNeo@web171802.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1353131092-1181601210-1390740856=:35868" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: michael osullivan Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --1353131092-1181601210-1390740856=:35868 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (here is a copy n paste from my BASIC session; it seems like that is the ri= ght manual )-------------=0A=0AREADY=0A10 for n=3D1 to 7=0A20 print n, sqr(= n)=0A30 next n=0A40 print "Done!"=0A50 end=0Arun=0A=0ANONAME.B20=0ASunday, = January 26, 2014 04:17:04=0A=0A=A01=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1 = =0A=A02=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.414214 =0A=A03=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.732051 =0A=A04=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = 2 =0A=A05=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.236068 =0A=A06=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.44949 =0A=A07=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 2.645751 =0ADone!=0AREADY=0A=0ACompile time: 0.002 secs=0ARun time: 0.0= 05 secs=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 Elapsed time: 0:00:00=0A=0A=0A(looks ok so far := ) )------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------=0A=0A=0AREADY=0Arename=0ANew program name--sqr1-7.ba= s=0A=0AREADY=0Alist=0A=0ASQR1-7.BAS=0ASunday, January 26, 2014 04:25:11=0A= =0A00010 for n=3D1 to 7=0A00020 print n, sqr(n)=0A00030 next n=0A00040 prin= t "Done!"=0A00050 end=0A=0AREADY=0A=0A-------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------=0A=0A(well i saved that little example from the manual exited BASIC= and used the "OLD" command to open the saved file and list and run it. It = did complain with:=0A"=0A=0AOld file name--sqr1-7.bas=0A=0A? ILLEGAL INSTRU= CTION EXECUTED=0A? INTERNAL ERROR AT PC 15636=0A? Proceed at your own risk.= ..=0A"=0A...but it ran without issue.=A0 ) --------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn S= unday, 26 January 2014, 12:31, michael osullivan wrote= :=0A =0AThanks! I can't remember if it is the correct book now as i can't f= ind it on Amazon, they deleted my basket contents . I am just =0Alooking at= a pdf from bitsavers for the "BASIC conversational language =0Amanual" whi= ch is for PDP-l0 BASIC version 17D.=A0 I see in the basic.hlp file on twene= x that the version referenced is 17F and dated 1981, the above mentioned ma= nual is the one reccomended for further study also, although my pdf is date= d 1974 version 17D; that pdf should be ok?=0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.co= m/search?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (2nd link from top)=0A=0Aor direct link: (i coul= dnt find the actual manual on bitsavers itself, and i have lost the link fo= r the manual on Amazon for the moment )=0A=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/u= rl?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved= =3D0CDMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf= %2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_= Conversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&usg=3D= AFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA=0A=0A=0A= =0AThanks Mike=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, 16 January 2014, 12:46, Klaus Zeu= ge wrote:=0A =0AThe BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way s= impler than just about=0Aany other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - = functions, no line=0Anumbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, A= BC-80, VIC-64=A0 -=0Aeven VIC-20!).=0AAs far as I remember, there was one s= tatement per line (i.e., no=A0 '10=0APRINT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single l= ine), severe limitations on=0Alengths of variable names and what not.=0AAct= ually, I remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early"=0Afor th= e BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use=0AS-express= ions everywhere.=0A=0AWhere there more than one BASIC which could run under= Tops-10?=0A=0A=A0 =A0 /sojge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A2014/1/14 David Meyer :=0A> michael osullivan wrote:=0A>> I was a= ctually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to=0A>> Ansi BAS= IC=0A book - i'm sure we could do with a few more BASIC games on this=0A>> = system!? ;)=0A>=0A> An excellent idea. I have ported a few of the Creative = Computing BASIC games=0A> myself.=0A>=0A> Note that the BASIC interpreter o= n twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was=0A> developed for TOPS-10 and never offi= cially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on=0A> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLU= S-TWO was the version DEC put out for=0A> TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work = OK, though, except for an apparently=0A> harmless warning message it prints= when loading an source file from disk=0A> with the OLD command.=0A>=0A> Al= so, if you're going to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for=0A> the = variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself=0A sold a lot=0A> o= f different BASICs for all their computer lines. Though in large=0A> BASICA= LLY ;) the same, there were a lot of variation in the details=0A> that migh= t make it frustrating to work with a book written for an=0A> interpreter di= fferent from the one you're using.=0A>=0A> Keep on hackin'!=0A> -------=0A= =0A=0A=0A-- =0Ahttp://twitter.com/sojge --1353131092-1181601210-1390740856=:35868 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(here is a copy n paste from my BASIC = session; it seems like that is the right manual )-------------=

READY
10 for n=3D1 to 7
20 print = n, sqr(n)
30 next n
40 print "Done!"
50 end
run

NONAME.B20=
Sunday, January 26, 2014 04:17:04

 1    = ;         1
 2  =            1.414214
&= nbsp;3           &nb= sp; 1.732051
 4        &nb= sp;    2
 5      &nbs= p;      2.236068
 6   &nbs= p;         2.44949
 7 = ;            2.64575= 1
Done!
READY

Compile time: 0.002 s= ecs
Run time: 0.005 secs        Elapsed ti= me: 0:00:00

= (looks ok so far :) )------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------

READY
rename
New program name--sqr1-7.bas

READY
list

SQR1-7.BAS
Sunday, January= 26, 2014 04:25:11

00010 for n=3D1 to 7
00020 print n, sqr(n)
= 00030 next n
00040 print "Done!"
00050 end

READY
-----------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------
(well i saved that little example from the manual exited BASIC = and used the "OLD" command to open the saved file and list and run it. It d= id complain with:
"
Old = file name--sqr1-7.bas

? ILLEGAL INSTRUCTION EXECUTED
? INTERNAL E= RROR AT PC 15636
? Proceed at your own risk...
"
...but it ran without issue. = ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------


On Sunday, 26 January 2014, 12:31, michael osul= livan <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks! I can't remembe= r if it is the correct book now as i can't find it on Amazon, they deleted = my basket contents . I am just =0Alooking at a pdf from bitsavers for the "= BASIC conversational language =0Amanual" which is for PDP-l0 BASIC version = 17D.  I see in the basic.hlp file on twenex that the version reference= d is 17F and dated 1981, the above mentioned manual is the one reccomended = for further study also, although my pdf is dated 1974 version 17D; that pdf= should be ok?
=0A
=0Ahttps://encrypted= .google.com/search?hl=3Den&q=3DDEC%20Basic-10%20pdp-10%2F20#hl=3Den&= ;q=3DPDP-l0+BASIC+        (2nd link from= top)
=0A
=0Aor<erm> direct link:= (i couldnt find the actual manual on bitsavers itself, and i have lost the= link for the manual on Amazon for the moment )
=0A
=0Ahttps://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q= =3Dpdp-l0%20basic%20&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&cad=3Drja&ved=3D0C= DMQFjAB&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de%2Fpdf%= 2Fdec%2Fpdp10%2FTOPS10_softwareNotebooks%2Fvol06%2FDEC-10-LBLMA-A-D_BASIC_C= onversational_Language_Manual_Mar74.pdf&ei=3DKu7kUqSeItTs0gXi_4H4Bw&= ;usg=3DAFQjCNEAznP4GeKIoNwS_f-d4Mx-RwN0AQ&sig2=3DApM4tDS-gr3tR-iWO-fItA=
=0A
=0A
=0A
Thanks Mike


On Thurs= day, 16 January 2014, 12:46, Klaus Zeuge <kz@kz.kz> wrote:
The = BASIC I remember from Tops-10 was way, way simpler than just about
any other BASIC including those on VAX/VMS (hey - functions, no l= ine
numbers, etc) and on micro computers (like Apple ][, = ABC-80, VIC-64  -
even VIC-20!).
A= s far as I remember, there was one statement per line (i.e., no  '10
PRI= NT "HELLO" ; GOTO 10' on a single line), severe limitations on
lengths of variable names and what not.
Actually, I= remember the same impression of "wow, this must be early"
for the BASIC under Tops-10 as for the LISP on PDP-8 which didn't use
S-expressions everywhere.

Where there more than one BASIC which could run under Tops-10?

    /sojge




2014/1/1= 4 David Meyer <PAPA@twenex.= org>:
> michael osullivan <trumos@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>&g= t; I was actually thinking of getting a copy of the DEC Introduction to
>> Ansi BASIC=0A book - i'm sure we could do with a fe= w more BASIC games on this
>> system!? ;)
>
> An excellent idea. I have ported a fe= w of the Creative Computing BASIC games
> myself.
>
> Note that the BASIC interpreter o= n twenex.org is BASIC-10 which was
> developed for TOP= S-10 and never officially supported on TOPS-20 (Someone on
> alt.sys.pdp10 thought BASIC-PLUS-TWO was the version DEC put out for=
> TOPS-20). BASIC-10 seems to work OK, though, except= for an apparently
> harmless warning message it print= s when loading an source file from disk
> with the OLD= command.
>
> Also, if you're goi= ng to pay for a manual, make sure you get one for
> th= e variety of BASIC that's actually running. DEC by itself=0A sold a lot
> of different BASICs for all their computer lines. Thoug= h in large
> BASICALLY ;) the same, there were a lot o= f variation in the details
> that might make it frustr= ating to work with a book written for an
> interpreter= different from the one you're using.
>
> Keep on hackin'!

> -------



--
http://twitter.com/sojge




--1353131092-1181601210-1390740856=:35868-- 2-Feb-2014 17:46:21-PST,1055;000000000011 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 2-Feb-2014 17:46:21 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:46:21 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric L. Watson Subject: TECO To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14861224864.10.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> EXCELLENT CHOICE TO USE TECO ON TWOG. I SWITCHED FROM MICROSOFT WORD TO VI AND GROFF (AND TROFF) ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO. HAVE NEVER LOOKED BACK... HAPPY EVER SINCE. EVEN USED THEM TO SELF-PUBLISH BOOKS FOR MY OWN USE... ACCORDING TO THE AUTHOR OF TECO (SEE http://tenex.opost.com/ ) THE ORIGINAL IDEA FOR TECO WAS BATCH EDITING (NON-INTERACTIVE FILE EDIT). THIS IS A FASCINATING IDEA. TO EDIT A FILE THAT YOU CANNOT SEE DIRECTLY. I TRIED SOME EXPERIMENTS ALONG THESE LINES WITH SED. IT DOES WORK, BUT IT IS EXCRUCIATINGLY DIFFICULT. THE EDIT COMMANDS ESSENTIALLY BECOME PROGRAMS -- AND THESE CAN HAVE BUGS... SO IT MAKES EDITING ESSENTIALLY BATCH PROGRAMMING. CUTS COMPUTER RESOURCE USAGE DOWN TO INCREDIBLE MINIMUMS -- WHILE MAXIMIZING HUMAN EFFORT !!! SO THE IDEA IS TOTALLY ANTITHETICAL TO MODERN TRENDS... ------- 3-Feb-2014 04:16:57-PST,837;000000000001 Mail-From: PAPA created at 3-Feb-2014 04:16:57 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 04:16:57 -0800 (PST) From: David Meyer Subject: Re: TECO To: VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG cc: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG In-Reply-To: <14861224864.10.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> Message-ID: <14861339663.10.PAPA@TWENEX.ORG> I needed to dust-off my TECO skills because it's the best editor available on LCM's DEC-10, plus I need to study-up to update my TECO tutorial, plus it's more satisfying to do retro-computing with such a retro editor. Unix sed can be a nice tool for piping text through, but I can see how TECO's command language would be even more powerful (except for regular expressions) once you learn to differentiate TECO commands from line noise. I haven't tried a TECO batch program, but I am all in favor of subverting modern trends. ------- 3-Feb-2014 22:16:31-PST,1134;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 3-Feb-2014 22:16:31 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 22:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: Cedric L. Watson Subject: EDITORS To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14861536192.10.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> I STARTED OFF WITH SOS (NOT COUNTING EDITING IN BASIC) ON THE DEC-10. THEN MOVED TO EDT ON THE VAX. I FIND MYSELF COMING BACK TO EDT ON TWENEX. BY THE WAY, IF YOU EVER WANT TO TRY EDT ON TWENEX, IT NEEDS A GOOD VT-100 EMULATOR. THE ONLY ONE THAT I FOUND TO WORK CORRECTLY IS XTERM. THE REST DO NOT IMPLEMENT VT-100 CORRECTLY... A LOT OF STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN AROUND COLUMN 80. VI IS GOOD, BUT I HAVE FOUND THAT IT IS REALLY BIASED TOWARDS LOWER CASE. THIS IS NO PROBLEM IN UNIX OR C USAGE (ITS NATIVE ENVIRONMENT), BUT I JUST CANNOT BRING MYSELF TO TYPE A FORTRAN IV PROGRAM IN LOWER CASE -- IT JUST DOES NOT SEEM RIGHT... AND WHAT IS TRULY NATIVE TO THE PDP-10 IS REALLY SIXBIT (SIX CHARACTERS OF SIX BITS = 36 BITS, PERFECT FIT !). BUT TECO IS TRULY THE NATIVE EDITOR IN DECLAND... LONG LIVE THE NON-WYSIWYG EDITORS ! THE ONLY ONES THAT DO AS THEY ARE COMMANDED TO... VULCAN ------- 8-Apr-2014 01:46:08-PDT,1173;000000000001 Mail-From: VULCAN created at 8-Apr-2014 01:46:08 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 01:46:08 -0800 (PDT) From: Cedric L. Watson Subject: HELLO To: PAPA@TWENEX.ORG Message-ID: <14878078499.7.VULCAN@TWENEX.ORG> HELLO, I JUST FINISHED MAKING THE REQUIRED MODIFICATIONS TO FLST SO THAT IT CAN HANDLE LARGE SCREEN SIZES. I HAVE ASKED JSOL TO INSTALL IT AS A SYSTEM PROGRAM. THE DIRECTORY IS A REAL TREASURE TROVE BY SOME OF THE MOST ILLUSTRIOUS NAMES IN COMPUTER SCIENCE. MOST OF THOSE PROGRAMS ARE AS USEFUL AS EVER IN THIS ENVIRONMENT. SADLY, SOME ARE NOT FUNCTIONAL FOR TRIVIAL REASONS LIKE BEING CODED FOR OBSOLETE TERMINALS, ETC. A LOT OF THAT COULD BE REMEDIED QUITE EASILY... ONE ITEM OF INTEREST THAT I FOUND IS FORMAC.MAC THIS IS A LIBRARY OF FORTRAN CALLABLE ASSEMBLY SUBPROGRAMS. IT JUST NEEDS TO BE COMPILED SOMEWHERE INTO A .REL FILE AND THEN LINKED IN WITH THE FORTRAN CALLING PROGRAM WITH @LOAD PROG,FORMAC/LIB FOLLOWED BY @SAVE PROG. THIS IS ONE WAY TO ENABLE FORTRAN TO CARRY OUT MACHINE DEPENDENT OPERATIONS... LONG LIVE THE MOST USER FRIENDLY ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE - MACRO 10 ! -VULCAN ------- 12-Apr-2014 15:55:55-PDT,1914;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:51:52 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s3CMnE55000307 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2014 22:49:14 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id s3CMnE2b025080 for twenex-l-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 2014 22:49:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sdf.org (smj@ol.freeshell.org [192.94.73.20]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s3CMnDwM023261 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2014 22:49:13 GMT Received: (from smj@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id s3CMnDqu022676 for twenex-l@sdf.org; Sat, 12 Apr 2014 22:49:13 GMT Message-Id: <201404122249.s3CMnDqu022676@sdf.org> Subject: [twenex-l] COMMODE session tonight 5:30PM PDT To: twenex-l@sdf.org Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 22:49:13 +0000 (UTC) From: "Stephen M. Jones" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL93 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: "Stephen M. Jones" Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Just a reminder, we have a COMMODE session from 5:30PM to 7:00PM PDT on twenex.org. For more information about connecting for the chat, check out the wiki here: http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:commode Lots of project to talk about and catch up. See you there! 17-May-2014 15:27:25-PDT,1852;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Sat, 17 May 2014 15:27:25 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4HMU7Q6021907 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sat, 17 May 2014 22:30:07 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id s4HMU7cl013531 for twenex-l-outgoing; Sat, 17 May 2014 22:30:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sdf.org (smj@ol.freeshell.org [192.94.73.20]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4HMU6so004576 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Sat, 17 May 2014 22:30:06 GMT Received: (from smj@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id s4HMU6bm000463 for twenex-l@sdf.org; Sat, 17 May 2014 22:30:06 GMT Message-Id: <201405172230.s4HMU6bm000463@sdf.org> Subject: [twenex-l] Weekly COMMODE session this evening! To: twenex-l@sdf.org Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 22:30:06 +0000 (UTC) From: "Stephen M. Jones" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL93 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: "Stephen M. Jones" Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Just a reminder we'll have our weekly COMMODE session on twenex.org this evening. Full details can be found in the twenex.org TOPS-20 WIKI: http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:commode See you there! 8-Jun-2015 17:02:36-PDT,1769;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 17:02:35 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t5904cYi024942 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:04:38 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id t5904c8O028377 for twenex-l-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:04:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sverige.freeshell.org (IDENT:knusbaum@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t5904cxb020001 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:04:38 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:04:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Kyle X-X-Sender: knusbaum@iceland.freeshell.org To: twenex-l@sdf.org Subject: [twenex-l] Hello, World Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (NEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Kyle Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Hello, Twenex.org. I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and found David Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone listening? knusbaum@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org 8-Jun-2015 17:36:40-PDT,4467;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 17:36:38 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t590NFSS015964 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:23:15 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id t590NFfu006774 for twenex-l-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:23:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-qc0-f173.google.com (mail-qc0-f173.google.com [209.85.216.173]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t590NE4c019185 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:23:15 GMT Received: by qcej9 with SMTP id j9so1145960qce.1 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:23:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LnDmaAM0MFxY0oUIhdzF3y9MViPrnixUNBzG/bIwlVI=; b=NvMRCS67G1j6XCNcSPwMKv5+BnbBkSBo+8eO4IJnQXw74WMkk8VFFMoZugNvpoOfQG 8k0fwr1K15Kiu/wbzdqs8IFYneGOHzcPg9MjlJLKquITXr6pKf8siCmVgjM9rPEdvwnb grmzAeRGPuNybN6+bkUUDSp//OI7yUpRG+OrCW5bW1cnzC7quBtIyfCPwKVEPHoibYeD g6tQYtng6Y6+ZxMFm+EBiEVsouMWpLYrzfQ3DKRQ51RLgnrYboUtYTNMVguzZbF80AN8 7cIyLN67ve6n0SfwbjfOkO4WQ4rmveg6SIPVc5AvfVMOOKx4RGzg2mbsVJmPy4w1a6ib gVCg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.27.211 with SMTP id 77mr22315142qgx.64.1433809396228; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.213.195 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 17:23:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:23:16 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Tsacas?= To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c156eabce73405180ac350 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Tsacas?= Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org --001a11c156eabce73405180ac350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Le mardi 9 juin 2015, Kyle a =C3=A9crit : > Hello, Twenex.org. > > I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and found > David Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone listening? > > I guess. Stephane > knusbaum@sdf.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org > --=20 Stephane FreeDonne Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne. --001a11c156eabce73405180ac350 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

Le=C2=A0mardi 9 juin 2015, Kyle <knusbaum@sdf.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hello, Twenex.org.

I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and found D= avid Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone liste= ning?

I guess.
Stephane

= =C2=A0
knusbaum@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org


--
Stephane
FreeDonne=C2=A0Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne= .


--001a11c156eabce73405180ac350-- 8-Jun-2015 19:56:45-PDT,3189;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:56:43 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t592xJNS000558 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 02:59:19 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id t592xJD3027255 for twenex-l-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 02:59:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from sverige.freeshell.org (IDENT:knusbaum@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t592xIuc000038 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 02:59:19 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 02:59:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Kyle X-X-Sender: knusbaum@iceland.freeshell.org To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (NEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1052920386-1433818759=:4262" Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Kyle Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1052920386-1433818759=:4262 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sdf.lonestar.org id t592xPNR003595 Great. Then is anyone up for a commode meeting this weekend? I haven't=20 done much on twenex, but I've heard some cool stuff is going on. On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, St?phane Tsacas wrote: > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:23:16 +0300 > From: St?phane Tsacas > Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org > To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" > Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World >=20 > Hi >=20 > Le=C2=A0mardi 9 juin 2015, Kyle a ?crit=C2=A0: > Hello, Twenex.org. > > I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and f= ound David Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone liste= ning? >=20 > I guess. > Stephane >=20 > =C2=A0 > knusbaum@sdf.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Stephane > FreeDonne=C2=A0Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne. >=20 >=20 > knusbaum@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org --0-1052920386-1433818759=:4262-- 8-Jun-2015 20:06:21-PDT,3714;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 20:06:21 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t5939ENu011034 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:09:14 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id t5939ELh016874 for twenex-l-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:09:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com (st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com [17.172.220.114]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t5939DxG028314 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:09:14 GMT Received: from [172.16.13.158] (unknown [64.139.10.179]) by st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NPN01CVHQ3DFT10@st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com> for twenex-l@sdf.org; Tue, 09 Jun 2015 03:09:15 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-06-09_03:2015-06-08,2015-06-09,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1506090058 References: In-reply-to: MIME-version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-id: <40CAA4E2-1433-49B6-AEC4-9DDF4B505DAB@me.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (12F69) From: W Smith Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 20:08:57 -0700 Tï: "twenex-l@sdf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sdf.lonestar.org id t5939ExF021287 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: W Smith Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Normally I would say yes, but I will be absorbing WWDC...maybe I should build a TOPS-20 emulator for Apple Watch...not(!) Sent from my iPad > On Jun 8, 2015, at 7:59 PM, Kyle wrote: > > Great. Then is anyone up for a commode meeting this weekend? I haven't done much on twenex, but I've heard some cool stuff is going on. > >> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, St?phane Tsacas wrote: >> >> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:23:16 +0300 >> From: St?phane Tsacas >> Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org >> To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" >> Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World >> Hi >> Le mardi 9 juin 2015, Kyle a ?crit : >> Hello, Twenex.org. >> >> I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and found David Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone listening? >> I guess. >> Stephane >> >> knusbaum@sdf.org >> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org >> -- >> Stephane >> FreeDonne Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne. >> > > knusbaum@sdf.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org 8-Jun-2015 20:46:14-PDT,2791;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 20:46:14 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t593mhRJ012451 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:48:43 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id t593mhIk009244 for twenex-l-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:48:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com (st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com [17.172.220.114]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t593mgFf027948 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 03:48:43 GMT Received: from [172.16.13.156] (unknown [64.139.10.179]) by st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NPN00ZY3P53Q210@st11p02im-asmtp002.me.com> for twenex-l@sdf.org; Tue, 09 Jun 2015 02:48:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-06-09_03:2015-06-08,2015-06-09,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1506090051 From: W Smith Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World Message-id: <4F8AF6E3-4E6B-436D-A19D-8B17DC08EB89@me.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 19:48:23 -0700 References: In-reply-to: To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12F70) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sdf.lonestar.org id t593mhFe024703 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: W Smith Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Aye! Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 8, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Kyle wrote: > > Hello, Twenex.org. > > I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and found David Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone listening? > > knusbaum@sdf.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org 8-Jun-2015 21:44:12-PDT,3535;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 21:44:05 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t594kgFg005586 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 04:46:42 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.8/8.12.8/Submit) id t594kge5026734 for twenex-l-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 04:46:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mx.sdf.org: majordom set sender to owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG using -f Received: from mail-pd0-f170.google.com (mail-pd0-f170.google.com [209.85.192.170]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t594kg15001701 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128 bits) verified FAIL) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 04:46:42 GMT Received: by pdbki1 with SMTP id ki1so6424907pdb.1 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:46:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:from:content-type:in-reply-to:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=+O2K0CHjw4lwKVAKe40CeoxAuj0Z5rlmeqP2YyQNjdI=; b=gAUGuhwnt9TeUb2Ca45asqvhLECbrzFeoiizDuVsd1U9fkOZ507l91pic5g/ysN4na Wvr/z7GTs0xwtf0GKeG5J7Y0ISRRaMbbYedNkBnCdCKtiyTXaLp0AD4IgTGg/xgWNsNG a64G4OJoN8jVNCbYnopfexfs7b5m7y2V4xg03RqYfunRhjz25Fr61UFIX8BaF2FplWwa +Ga/BtVxHNZRB+3Pj/PEgrc2t9G33I2IdfxkpVarCh8K/dXJ2agEG6CbDvWRz65RgYnK HjAHC6LKjhbQrE6/nDzRc2I4rNJUiSBgmqSSyuyE1aTsviPn+X6ph7qirDhEY266Wp9C XFvQ== X-Received: by 10.70.92.4 with SMTP id ci4mr25492113pdb.33.1433825204601; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (184-98-188-217.phnx.qwest.net. [184.98.188.217]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id g2sm4082159pdh.11.2015.06.08.21.46.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [twenex-l] Hello, World References: <4F8AF6E3-4E6B-436D-A19D-8B17DC08EB89@me.com> From: Jovan Trujillo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12F70) In-Reply-To: <4F8AF6E3-4E6B-436D-A19D-8B17DC08EB89@me.com> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 21:46:41 -0700 To: "twenex-l@sdf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sdf.lonestar.org id t594kg14022126 Sender: owner-twenex-l@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG List-Id: twenex-l.SDF.ORG Precedence: bulk Reply-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Mail-Reply-To: Jovan Trujillo Mail-Followup-To: twenex-l@sdf.org Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 8, 2015, at 7:48 PM, W Smith wrote: > > Aye! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Kyle wrote: >> >> Hello, Twenex.org. >> >> I've been reading through the twenex bboard archive all day and found David Meyer's (PAPA's) post about this mailing list. Is anyone listening? >> >> knusbaum@sdf.org >> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org > 8-Jun-2015 23:42:27-PDT,2687;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([192.94.73.24]) by TWENEX.ORG with TCP/SMTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2015 23:42:06 -0800 (PDT) Received: from sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.24]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t596icFX008671 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with ci