# taz.de -- Spotlight Populism: „We have to keep facts important“
> Conversation beteween two journalists on „How to survive pupulism“ –
> during a coffee break.
IMG Bild: Matteo Salvini, leader of the Lega Nord political party delivers a speech in Germany
E: I have to write something on how to survive populism but I really don't
know what I could write.. It seems to me that everything we can write is
quite obvious..
Z: Well, you know.. First we have to understand what we mean by populism.
There is not only one kind of populism, there is a left wing one and a
right wing one.
E: Yes but for me there is ONE common definition, populism means easy
answers to difficult questions. Leftwing or rightwing parties all share
this feature. But it’s not only that…. It's clear that populist leaders
don't hesitate to ride every issue which brings votes to their party. Look
at what happens here, in Italy. We have two movements which can be defined
as populist: Lega Nord and Movimento 5 Stelle. They have very different
origins, they are actually very different but their leaders agree on the
issue of migration. They both said that all irregular migrants should be
thrown out from our country. That is exactly what I mean by simple answers
to difficult questions. From my point of view, expelling all irregular
migrants is not only deeply unfair but it is also impossible. But Salvini
and Grillo said exactly this!
Z: I bet they did! That happended immediately after Italian police shot
dead Anis Amri the tunisian terrorist who killed 12 people in Berlin. He
travelled easily throughout most of Europe, with no control at all.
E: But this is Shengen law and it's one of the main achievements of the
European Union.
Z: It’s true, but think of how easy it is to attack this law. How easy it
is to say that we will solve all our problems by getting rid of all
irregular immigrants, closing borders and rejecting foreigners.. If people
want easy answers these are the easiest answers they can get. Think about
Trump saying he would have built the wall with Mexico.
E: But what if these answers are wrong?
Z: It’s about the future. Populism deals with the present and the fear of
our time. And what is worst and makes populism very difficult to defeat is
that there is something real and tangible underlying people’s fears. Too
many immigrants can be a problem, globalization can have bitter costs,
strong unemployment and shitty jobs for the so called middle class ARE real
problems! If these problems are ignored by politics or underestimated,
populism will rise…
E: Are you saying that there is something good in populism?
Z: No, I’m not. I'm saying that in order to defeat it, politics and parties
should do a better job. They should listen to people’s problems and fears
and try to change things and solve problems. Our world is more and more
unequal. Rich are richer, poor are poorer and the middle class becomes more
and more unsecure and unstable. That's not good
E: I see, questions and problems are real, answers can be wrong, easy and
dangerous.. But do you think that we as journalist can do something? If
something goes wrong or false we should tell or write.
Z: It’s not just a matter of what is true and what is false, it’s a matter
of how people feel and interpret reality. We have already talked about it….
Do you remember?
E: When?
Z: Last year, IPSOS (a global market research and a consulting firm)
released a really impressive survey. In Italy immigrants are 9 percent of
the population, but Italian people thought there were many more, about 30
Percent. So, 9 is the real datum, 30 is the perception of reality. This is
not a slight difference because it changes the way people see reality.
Populism takes advantage of this gap between the reality and the perception
of reality and it fuels the flames of discontent and of the real problems.
So, good journalism tries to bridge this gap and to tell facts as they
really are.
E: It’s hard… Sticking to the truth in the era of post truth politics..
when facts are apparently not that important is a hard job.
Z: We have to struggle to keep facts important. It’s a hard job and it’s
even harder because the web and social media are full of information – also
wrong information – and if we want people to read us or watch us, we must
offer something more and something better. We must do our best! But it’s
challenging and worth doing…
E: So let’s go back to work!
Enrica Toninelli is deputy director of Italian public TV allnews channel
Rainews24. For many years head of the foreign affair desk.
28 Mar 2017
## AUTOREN
DIR Enrica Toninelli
## TAGS
DIR Spotlight Populism in Europe
DIR taz international
DIR taz in English
DIR Populismus
DIR Beppe Grillo
DIR Lega Nord
DIR Fashion
DIR USA
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